Robin Lehner Discussion Thread

[pm88]

How many people think Lehner's Ottawa career is over?

 

[booger]

I love bumping threads for players who haven't played in in two months, you can only talk positive things about such player in this scenario right?

Should have bumped the MacArthur threads when Milo was playing awesome in his spot, since MacArthur was struggling heavily before, but now that the team is playing better as a whole so is MacArthur.

Anderson on the other hand has not been giving this team chances to win in his starts since he came back, really want to see how Lehner will play in front of this team now. Need to remember before you call him garbage look at his potential guy is huge and athletic super competitive and wants to win more than any other goaltender in this league. Has won a championship in professional hockey. He is still insanely young probably 4 years away from the age most goalies break into the league and prove themselves. He is still learning be patient with him. It will suck to see him pull a Bishop in a few years and I will legit cry when the trade Lehner boat goes hindsight is 20/20....

Such is the case with a good portion of this fanbase. Complete lack of patience. Cowen is another example. Big D with great upside. Just needs seasoning. Look at Turris and how much he has improved since he first got here. Always the "what have you done for me lately" attitude around here.

 

[BonkTastic]

How many people think Lehner's Ottawa career is over?

Well, I can't see us going into next season with 3 NHL goalies, and I can't see the team letting Hammond walk for nothing. Those are my assumptions re: the fixed variables in this debate.

It's Lehner or Andy, IMO. I fully expect one of those two not to be here in October.

You could make an argument for either, but I think the stronger argument might be for trading Lehner.

 

[alfie follower]

If I had to choose between an AHL championship, or a goalie with a 18-1-2 record down the stretch, pushing, pulling, dragging and willing a team into playoff contention, who has played what ? 15- 20 game 7's ( maybe an exaggeration), how bout 15-20 must wins in a row ? ... I dunno, I cant even finish my thought on this...

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

I imagine they'll give Jake Allen a couple of years before they go out and pay full pop for a goalie via trade.

Windows in the NHL are getting smaller and smaller now due to parity. Do you really think St. Louis wants to experiment for two more years while Tarasenko and Schwartz are still on their entry deals?

 

[BonkTastic]

Windows in the NHL are getting smaller and smaller now due to parity. Do you really think St. Louis wants to experiment for two more years while Tarasenko and Schwartz are still on their entry deals?

I think they're scared off enough from the price they paid to get Ryan Miller and how that turned out that yeah - they'll take their lumps with Allen regardless of Tarasenko & Schwartz's contracts.

I think they're gun-shy as a result of the Miller deal.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Such is the case with a good portion of this fanbase. Complete lack of patience. Cowen is another example. Big D with great upside. Just needs seasoning. Look at Turris and how much he has improved since he first got here. Always the "what have you done for me lately" attitude around here.

In the case of Lehner, that's somewhat true. But the big defence for him always seems to be the Calder Cup win in Binghamton. What people don't like to remember, though, is that the season after that his GAA crashed (2.10 in the playoffs, 3.26 next season) and his save percentage dropped too (0.939 vs. 0.907, respectively.) Plus, not only has he not shown much at the NHL level since his first season, he's actively regressed.

I'm all for giving players their due, and there's no doubt Lehner still has a lot of untapped potential. But at some point, the question has to be: will he ever tap that potential? With every passing year, the odds of that diminish. And before anyone busts out the youth argument, he's 23. Here's a list of current goalies who are around Lehner's age or younger with better overall stats (min 5GP):

Jake Allen
Louis Domingue
John Gibson
Michael Hutchinson
Darcy Kuemper (arguably — SV% is a touch higher but GAA is much lower)
Petr Mrazek
Joni Ortio
Calvin Pickard
Andrey Vasilevskiy

Youth as an argument only goes so far.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

I love bumping threads for players who haven't played in in two months, you can only talk positive things about such player in this scenario right?

Should have bumped the MacArthur threads when Milo was playing awesome in his spot, since MacArthur was struggling heavily before, but now that the team is playing better as a whole so is MacArthur.

Anderson on the other hand has not been giving this team chances to win in his starts since he came back, really want to see how Lehner will play in front of this team now. Need to remember before you call him garbage look at his potential guy is huge and athletic super competitive and wants to win more than any other goaltender in this league. Has won a championship in professional hockey. He is still insanely young probably 4 years away from the age most goalies break into the league and prove themselves. He is still learning be patient with him. It will suck to see him pull a Bishop in a few years and I will legit cry when the trade Lehner boat goes hindsight is 20/20....

Robin Lehner should have never been up on this roster in the first place. He was, and still is, far too young (and of questionable maturity) to serve even as a back-up. He should have been playing 70+ games in the AHL this season and next but he clearly didn't like being there (no young player does really).

If Lehner finds himself on the outs here in Ottawa, it's the fault of Robin himself, his agent, and our management team that didn't force him to continue to develop in a lesser league. Truthfully, winning that Calder Cup was probably the worst thing for his career because it gave him and his fans an overinflated sense of his readiness. There were people on this very board who wanted him handed the #1 spot the very next season after that run.

I think Robin Lehner could still be a very good NHL goalie but he's years away from that. And this season did, IMO, untold damage to his development. You could visibly see how much stress his poor games put on him and he didn't have the experience to overcome it. If he was playing right now, he'd continue to struggle regardless of the team's play in front of him.

 

[NyQuil]

A lot of what makes Hammond successful is his ability to shrug off a goal and buckle down.

I'm not sure if it's a product of age or simply a different mental attitude.

Lehner is so keyed up all the time, I don't know if it's always the best approach mentally towards games. Is it something he'll grow out of, or is it a permanent part of his competitive personality?

There are some great competitive goalies out there (e.g. Patrick Roy) but at the same time, I find myself more comfortable with milder and consistent personalities in the net.

It'd be nice to have all 3 and see how they do at camp.

 

[BonkTastic]

If Lehner finds himself on the outs here in Ottawa, it's the fault of Robin himself, his agent, and our management team that didn't force him to continue to develop in a lesser league. Truthfully, winning that Calder Cup was probably the worst thing for his career because it gave him and his fans an overinflated sense of his readiness. There were people on this very board who wanted him handed the #1 spot the very next season after that run.

I think Robin Lehner could still be a very good NHL goalie but he's years away from that. And this season did, IMO, untold damage to his development. You could visibly see how much stress his poor games put on him and he didn't have the experience to overcome it. If he was playing right now, he'd continue to struggle regardless of the team's play in front of him.

 

[Benjamin]

Lehner is definitely an athletic goalie and relies heavily on it. His technique is not great and hasn't shown much improvement in his technique in the last 3 years.

I'm not giving up on him but I also wouldn't not trade him.

Definitely agree with what Choco said above.

 

[Larionov]

The fact that Lehner wasn't on the ice last night post-game for the ceremony awarding sticks to fans tells you that he is still suffering with significant concussion symptoms. (Michalek was also MIA, whereas Neil and Phillips were both there.) Any time you see a guy sitting for close to two months with a concussion, you definitely start to worry.

Lehner is a guy with a ton of potential - I think we all agree on that. We also agree that goalies often take a while to truly come into their own, and that there is a risk that he could emerge as a superstar in another team's uniform.

To me, the guy you trade is Anderson. He's a soon to be 34 year old journeyman starter who is who he is - capable of playing very well for stretches, but increasingly injury prone and not the guy who is going to carry this team long term. Ship him out, and run with Hammond and Lehner. If Lehner falters, you can always go find yourself a veteran in the trade market later. (Andy is only going to get us a second round pick, so veteran goalies are always available on the market for a relatively cheap price.)

Oh, and Hammond is going to get himself a very nice one way, three year deal from someone, be it us or another club. He's a UFA come July 1, so he is in a strong bargaining position. I'm sure he feels some loyalty to Ottawa, but this is a business, and a chance for him to secure himself and his family financially for a long time to come. Not a chance that he signs a contract for significantly less dollar or term than he would get on the open market, nor should he.

 

[NyQuil]

To me, the guy you trade is Anderson. He's a soon to be 34 year old journeyman starter who is who he is - capable of playing very well for stretches, but increasingly injury prone and not the guy who is going to carry this team long term. Ship him out, and run with Hammond and Lehner. If Lehner falters, you can always go find yourself a veteran in the trade market later. (Andy is only going to get us a second round pick, so veteran goalies are always available on the market for a relatively cheap price.)

I find myself unsettled with the idea of Lehner and Hammond for a full season.

This team is barely in the playoff race with stellar goaltending.

Lehner and Hammond have 88 games of NHL experience between the two of them.

Oh, and Hammond is going to get himself a very nice one way, three year deal from someone, be it us or another club. He's a UFA come July 1, so he is in a strong bargaining position. I'm sure he feels some loyalty to Ottawa, but this is a business, and a chance for him to secure himself and his family financially for a long time to come. Not a chance that he signs a contract for significantly less dollar or term than he would get on the open market, nor should he.

Yeah, I wouldn't blame him either.

Carkner and Konopka made the most of their play against the Rangers in the playoffs and signed paycheques elsewhere.

 

[Canadian Time]

Hammond will soon exceed Lehner's wins in the NHL in about a third of the games played. Why are people still calling him a fluke?

It's easy in my mind, sign Hammond to a one-way and have all three battle it out in pre-season. You don't give up on Lehner but it will be clear that this will be his last chance to grab a spot. That's sports, you need to grab it when you have the chance, Hammond is doing just that.

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

Hammond will soon exceed Lehner's wins in the NHL in about a third of the games played. Why are people still calling him a fluke?

Yeah but Lehner has the power of positive thinking behind him. As in some fans still believe he will become a star. If you've read 'The Secret' you should know that's really important too.

 

[DrEasy]

The fact that Lehner wasn't on the ice last night post-game for the ceremony awarding sticks to fans tells you that he is still suffering with significant concussion symptoms. (Michalek was also MIA, whereas Neil and Phillips were both there.) Any time you see a guy sitting for close to two months with a concussion, you definitely start to worry.

Just a slight correction: Michalek was there for the ceremony, and so was Puempel. But you're right about Lehner.

 

[SilverSeven]

Robin Lehner career wins: 30
Andrew Hammond career wins: 18

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

I just wanted to point out that Lehner was fully geared up for today's team photoshoot. He probably sat out the Fan Appreciation stuff for other reasons.

 

[Larionov]

I just wanted to point out that Lehner was fully geared up for today's team photoshoot. He probably sat out the Fan Appreciation stuff for other reasons.

I saw that, which is definitely good news. You want him to have a full, healthy off-season to train. Concussion symptoms can linger for a while - witness Rick Nash, who they now think was fighting lingering symptoms during last year's playoffs. A full off-season of recovery and training (and a few pounds lighter) and dude went Beast Mode this season.

There are a few guys on this team (Lehner, Bobby Ryan and Patrick Weircioch being three who come to mind) who I think could use a full off-season with a sadistic personal trainer riding them like mules...

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

I dont have much faith in lehner or cowen. Not just because they both were terrible this season but because they have shown lack of improvement on the things that made them bad.

Lehner might turn it around but i think its unlikely he becomes what some people thought he could be. His potential is high its just unlikely.

I think the sens are unable to sign Hammond and Lehner and Anderson are the goalies for next year

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Lehner and Cowen clears up money and ought to get us a nice return

Lehner is done in Ottawa IMO, he was his own worst enemy in the end

 

[pm88]

Here's what I think at the end of the day.

You don't go "all-in" on Hammond after a 25 game stretch and you don't just give up and get rid of Lehner because of a 25 game stretch.

It's just too small of a sample size in both cases

 

[DylanSensFan]

I love bumping threads for players who haven't played in in two months, you can only talk positive things about such player in this scenario right?

Should have bumped the MacArthur threads when Milo was playing awesome in his spot, since MacArthur was struggling heavily before, but now that the team is playing better as a whole so is MacArthur.

Anderson on the other hand has not been giving this team chances to win in his starts since he came back, really want to see how Lehner will play in front of this team now. Need to remember before you call him garbage look at his potential guy is huge and athletic super competitive and wants to win more than any other goaltender in this league. Has won a championship in professional hockey. He is still insanely young probably 4 years away from the age most goalies break into the league and prove themselves. He is still learning be patient with him. It will suck to see him pull a Bishop in a few years and I will legit cry when the trade Lehner boat goes hindsight is 20/20....

Finally someone with a little bit of reason.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Robin Lehner should have never been up on this roster in the first place. He was, and still is, far too young (and of questionable maturity) to serve even as a back-up. He should have been playing 70+ games in the AHL this season and next but he clearly didn't like being there (no young player does really).

If Lehner finds himself on the outs here in Ottawa, it's the fault of Robin himself, his agent, and our management team that didn't force him to continue to develop in a lesser league. Truthfully, winning that Calder Cup was probably the worst thing for his career because it gave him and his fans an overinflated sense of his readiness. There were people on this very board who wanted him handed the #1 spot the very next season after that run.

I think Robin Lehner could still be a very good NHL goalie but he's years away from that. And this season did, IMO, untold damage to his development. You could visibly see how much stress his poor games put on him and he didn't have the experience to overcome it. If he was playing right now, he'd continue to struggle regardless of the team's play in front of him.

You know, I like reading what you've got to say. But I can't help but enjoy when you have to eat your words. You were ready to throw Cameron under the bus last night against Pitts... but thankfully you acted as a sort of anti-jinx.

There is only one other goalie to win the Calder as young as Lehner. Carey Price. Price had his struggles in the NHL, for two seasons if I recall. Now bear in mind, I was never one of those who called for Lehner to be handed the starting position in the NHL. I've supported Lehner along the way and believe he has more than earned his spot as a back up. Granted, he hasn't spent as much time as Bishop did in the AHL... but his numbers were as good as Bishops when Bishop was still a Senator. The reason we gave up Bishop is because of the potential Lehner showed. We could also look to Brian Elliott who we gave up for Anderson because he essentially sucked. FFWD a few seasons and Elliott now finds himself as the starter in St Louis.

If we give up on Lehner for Hammond or Anderson it would be idiotic and would surely come back to bite this team in the ass. Hammond starts to show anything other than the super human performance he's been giving and soon enough this fan base will turn on him, just like they have with Lehner, Elliott, etc etc etc. We finally have some goal tending and people are in a hurry to trade it away.

Lehner is about a year, maybe two from being a top tier NHL starter. The what have you done for me lately crowd is thick in here. It seems awfully familiar, like the Montreal fans wondering why they traded Halak for Price. I wont be wondering if we trade Lehner and he owns our teams ass every time we play against him. All those here wanting to oust him will be eating their hats.

JMO.

 

[Caeldan]

Biggest difference between Price and Lehner's development though was that Montreal made the moves to force Price into the #1 position and never kept anyone around that might challenge that.
Tokarski started out this season as the first potential threat that Price has had for a #1 spot (and Price started out flat) since the Habs traded away Halak.

Ottawa has sheltered Lehner his entire career, and given into his demands... Even the games he got into this season, was a significantly weaker schedule than what's been forced onto Hammond or what Anderson's workload was.

I don't think Choco will have to eat his words here, because for one he's not really speaking in absolutes - closest being the final statement that Lehner will eventually be a good goalie.

But even for Price it's actually been about 4 years before he's really been recognized truly as an elite goaltender. Before then it was mostly that he was a headcase with potential.