Value of: Ristolainen to Toronto.

[SB716]

He absolutely is

It’s time to be realistic.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

It’s time to be realistic.

But I am, since they have been in the league together this season was the first time Eichel out scored and he had 9 more games to do it

 

[4thline]

IF the Leafs were to move on from Marner to restructure I'd think any trade would look more like Carter/Richards/Staal.
Top 10 pick or equivalent prospect + young roster player contributing at a top 6 / 4 level, variable 3rd asset.
8th ovr / Schenn / 8th overall + Vorachek / Simmonds / Sutter + 3rd / nothing / Dumoulin

So from the Sabres

8th/Cozens + Oloffson/Joker/ (maybe Risto)

 

[SB716]

But I am, since they have been in the league together this season was the first time Eichel out scored and he had 9 more games to do it

lol stop it.

 

[CatchyTune]

Ivesaid this numerous time before...

Toronto needs to trade Zmsrner or Nylsnder for defense.

General cap rule you should follow..

4/7 for F, 3/7 for D/G

Or if you say you look st top 10 F top 5 D snd and 1G as taking up cap-$7M with a roughly 60/40 split.

In either case if you have a few low cost/ELC players the next 2-3 yrs you can take higher cap hits and exceed these splits in the short term.

Toronto has 4 F under contract for 5+ yrs totaling near $40M which is near 50% of thecap snd it’s all on F. That’s the problem.

Did you have a stroke typing this?

 

[CatchyTune]

Guys, you're making us look bad. Eichel > Marner every day of the week. Not even a question for me.

If you're talking about a Marner for Eichel deal, thats another story. I do agree Marner is a better fit here as we already have 2 1st line centers and Marner is a top winger in the game as well as a perfect fit next to our goal scoring C's.

Eichel is between Matthews and Marner for me but closer to Matthews than Marner IMO.

 

[DJN21]

Guys, you're making us look bad. Eichel > Marner every day of the week. Not even a question for me.

If you're talking about a Marner for Eichel deal, thats another story. I do agree Marner is a better fit here as we already have 2 1st line centers and Marner is a top winger in the game as well as a perfect fit next to our goal scoring C's.

Eichel is between Matthews and Marner for me but closer to Matthews than Marner IMO.

More like Matthews is between Eichel and Marner but yeah I agree with the rest

 

[biotk]

I think they need to be given a fair chance and I don't think they have gotten it, be it because Dubas allowed the backup goaltending to piss away countless points for 17 months before FINALLY getting off his ass and getting Jack Campbell, or Nazem Kadri choosing to be and getting suspended not once but twice arguably costing them the 2018 series and ABSOLUTELY costing them the 2019 series.

If the Leafs' extremely highly paid players need conditions to be perfect to win anything then...guess what...there are going to be even less perfect conditions going forward with the cap staying flat.

I think this deserves an opportunity and if they don't get it I don't think they can be judged

I don't care about judging. Most cores don't win and most cores don't last. Do the Leafs' want to build a winner or not? Does the current team - which incidentally had Clifford and Barrie both with 50% retention - perform like a strong contender? (Nope). How much should the Leafs' contort themselves to give the core of Tavares, Matthews, Marner and Nylander more chances to win when during contract negotiations none of them seemed to care about anything except getting the absolutely most money that they could? Remember Shanahan in the summer of 2018 talking about how if they wanted to build a winner some players were going to have to make sacrifices for the good of the team? Instead the Leafs' young players did the exact opposite. Really the only way that this team can keep all 4 and be legitimate contenders over the next couple years is if all of the low earning players on the team far outplay their salaries and yet when it comes to contracts all those low earning players will need to remain as selfless as those big 4 were selfish. That is a pretty big ask. Their combined contracts looked bad when it was believed that the cap would be around 95M by the time Matthews was in year 5. Now with the cap looking to stay at 81.5M for the next 4 years they are a complete albatross.

 

[CatchyTune]

More like Matthews is between Eichel and Marner but yeah I agree with the rest

They're comparable. However I choose Matthews over Eichel. I wouldnt make that move either.

 

[biotk]

So from the Sabres

8th/Cozens + Oloffson/Joker/ (maybe Risto)

Would love to see Marner on Eichel's wing. Can't see a way that Buffalo could manage the long-term cap implications. Perhaps Anaheim or New Jersey could.

 

[slates77]

Don't want no scrubs, next

 

[Dion TheFluff]

IF the Leafs were to move on from Marner to restructure I'd think any trade would look more like Carter/Richards/Staal.
Top 10 pick or equivalent prospect + young roster player contributing at a top 6 / 4 level, variable 3rd asset.
8th ovr / Schenn / 8th overall + Vorachek / Simmonds / Sutter + 3rd / nothing / Dumoulin

So from the Sabres

8th/Cozens + Oloffson/Joker/ (maybe Risto)

Marner is also a better player than any of those guys were.
I'd probably consider Cozens, Ristolainen, Pilut + a draft pick for Marner

 

[Jerkbait]

Guys, you're making us look bad. Eichel > Marner every day of the week. Not even a question for me.

If you're talking about a Marner for Eichel deal, thats another story. I do agree Marner is a better fit here as we already have 2 1st line centers and Marner is a top winger in the game as well as a perfect fit next to our goal scoring C's.

Eichel is between Matthews and Marner for me but closer to Matthews than Marner IMO.

Not so at all...marner is overall better than jack..a least right normw and has been for the last 2 years..and we are not just talking about marner out scoring him...marner drives the play better.. better in his own end not to mention has out scored him.....to say jack is close to matthews is wrong...matthews will lead the league in goals next season...he is capable and will probably put up 60 plus ...jack will be coming in around 35 to 40..

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Let's start by making something clear Ristolinen is not my first choice for a RD. However we do know because it was reported at the deadline that the 2 teams have had discussions regarding Ristolinen.

He's also got term, which Dubas has said is his preference.

Ristolinen is not my first choice for a RD as I have said before but I do think he's more likely because of his term whereas my preferences like David Savard, Adam Larsson or Dougie Hamilton do not have term.

I also think Ristolinen and Muzzin could work well as a pair going forward.

I know most will disagree but I think he COULD fit.

The question is cost

I would trade Ristolainen for Rielly. 5.4M for 5M with 3 years left on both contracts. I don't think either are the #1D men on a cup contender, better as the #2 but honestly I am not a huge fan of Risto's.

 

[CatchyTune]

I would trade Ristolainen for Rielly. 5.4M for 5M with 3 years left on both contracts. I don't think either are the #1D men on a cup contender, better as the #2 but honestly I am not a huge fan of Risto's.

Well obviously. I dont think that needs to be said.

Rielly is absolutely a #1D. I would be hesitant to even call Risto a #2 let alone consider him to be a #1.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I would trade Ristolainen for Rielly. 5.4M for 5M with 3 years left on both contracts. I don't think either are the #1D men on a cup contender, better as the #2 but honestly I am not a huge fan of Risto's.

That would defear the purpose of getting Risto

 

[SB716]

Not so at all...marner is overall better than jack..a least right normw and has been for the last 2 years..and we are not just talking about marner out scoring him...marner drives the play better.. better in his own end not to mention has out scored him.....to say jack is close to matthews is wrong...matthews will lead the league in goals next season...he is capable and will probably put up 60 plus ...jack will be coming in around 35 to 40..

I’ll bet you AM doesn’t lead the league in goals next season. If he doesn’t you cancel your internet provider so you can’t post here anymore.

 

[CatchyTune]

I’ll bet you AM doesn’t lead the league in goals next season. If he doesn’t you cancel your internet provider so you can’t post here anymore.

Thats not such a crazy thing to say considering he has arguably the most lethal shot in the league and was 1 goal away from the rocket this year.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Well obviously. I dont think that needs to be said.

Rielly is absolutely a #1D. I would be hesitant to even call Risto a #2 let alone consider him to be a #1.

Depends on the team. This is why the reference to Cup contender. On St Louis a cup winner and contender, Rielly would be behind Pietrangelo and Parayko.

 

[gwh]

Can someone rewind what is are the most plausible offers in this thread with mutual acceptance?

Interesting subject but 30 pages is too long.

 

[biotk]

Can someone rewind what is are the most plausible offers in this thread with mutual acceptance?

Interesting subject but 30 pages is too long.

I don't think there has been any mutual acceptance. Risto is a polarizing player with all fanbases.

Lebrun mentioned trade talks between Dubas and Botts about Risto in February. I believe those trade talks were true.
Because Botts is out and the flat cap I feel those trade talks are dead.
Eklund has said that they are not dead and it revolves around Johnsson and Kerfoot for Risto. I don't believe him (although I do think that was the basis for the original trade talks).

 

[CatchyTune]

Depends on the team. This is why the reference to Cup contender. On St Louis a cup winner and contender, Rielly would be behind Pietrangelo and Parayko.

Well thats pretty selective of you. Cup contender = cup winner? Should we be a cup contender soon, he should be the #1D.

I dont see any problem with the guy who was 5th in Norris voting being my #1D.

 

[CatchyTune]

Depends on the team. This is why the reference to Cup contender. On St Louis a cup winner and contender, Rielly would be behind Pietrangelo and Parayko.

Also this can go both ways. Ryan O'Reilly was a #1C on a cup winning team, but would be the 3C here. Does that mean he isnt a #1C on a cup contender... Although he is a 1C on a cup winner? What you're saying makes no sense.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Well thats pretty selective of you. Cup contender = cup winner? Should we be a cup contender soon, he should be the #1D.

I dont see any problem with the guy who was 5th in Norris voting being my #1D.

Didn't you say he was absolutely a #1D? There is nothing selective about challenging this when it is not correct, he would not be on the better teams in the NHL. Contending teams, cup teams. He would be at worst #3 on Boston last year too behind McAvoy and Krug, Perhaps Carlo too. On St. Louis he would have been #3 behind Parayko and Pietrangelo.

We can go back to the other 4 conference finalists D corps. On SJ he would have been behind Karlsson and Burns. On Carolina behind Hamilton, Slevin and debatable if he would be ahead of Pesce.

He is not an absolute 1 #1D, on any of these contenders correct? He's a good D man, better slotted at #2, but if Rielly is the best D man on your team, chances are you are not going to win a cup.

Also this can go both ways. Ryan O'Reilly was a #1C on a cup winning team, but would be the 3C here. Does that mean he isnt a #1C on a cup contender... Although he is a 1C on a cup winner? What you're saying makes no sense.

Different argument and position. Not the same.

 

[CatchyTune]

Didn't you say he was absolutely a #1D? There is nothing selective about challenging this when it is not correct, he would not be on the better teams in the NHL. Contending teams, cup teams. He would be at worst #3 on Boston last year too behind McAvoy and Krug, Perhaps Carlo too. On St. Louis he would have been #3 behind Parayko and Pietrangelo.

We can go back to the other 4 conference finalists D corps. On SJ he would have been behind Karlsson and Burns. On Carolina behind Hamilton, Slevin and debatable if he would be ahead of Pesce.

He is not an absolute 1 #1D, on any of these contenders correct? He's a good D man, better slotted at #2, but if Rielly is the best D man on your team, chances are you are not going to win a cup.



Different argument and position. Not the same.

You are severely underrating Rielly if you think he would be behind Krug and "perhaps" Carlo.

I bet people would have told you prior to last year you wouldnt be able to win a cup with Ryan O'Reilly as your 1C. But that happened. Rielly is a suitable 1D for any team, contending or not.

This is such a silly, semantic filled argument. He was better than Carlson the year Washington won. He was better than whoever the heck played for Pittsburgh in 2016-17 when Letang was out.

Out of all the leafs' issues you could pick on, this one isnt going to work in your favor.