GDT: RIGXI - Avalanche vs. D*rty Sl*ts

[SaltySkywalker]

I agree. Don't get into a war of attrition with these f***s. Just beat them, embarrass them, and kick their asses out of the bubble.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

For a supposedly smart player, Timmins puts himself in AWFUL situations to get just clobbered by the opposing players.

Even if this isn't a concussion, he's got no future in the NHL because he's just going to continue putting himself in bad positions.

You hate to see it, but it is what it is with Timmins.

That's quite the overreaction.


It was one hit where there's nothing he can do to avoid the contact. It was a classic take the hit to make the play moment.

 

[Alex Jones]

That's quite the overreaction.


It was one hit where there's nothing he can do to avoid the contact. It was a classic take the hit to make the play moment.

I mean I'd like to see him do a little more to protect himself, but I generally agree. That's a hit that you have to be able to take at the NHL level. If he can't do that he can't play.

 

[xbestboybandever]

That's quite the overreaction.


It was one hit where there's nothing he can do to avoid the contact. It was a classic take the hit to make the play moment.

The hit shouldn’t have been made.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The hit shouldn’t have been made.

Disagree on that one.


Didn't see a single replay or angle that would suggest it was anything more than a guy simply finishing his check.

 

[Anders Cain]

Disagree on that one.


Didn't see a single replay or angle that would suggest it was anything more than a guy simply finishing his check.

I agree with your disagreement. Looked like a guy finishing his check, but unfortunate result if it is a concussion

 

[xbestboybandever]

Disagree on that one.


Didn't see a single replay or angle that would suggest it was anything more than a guy simply finishing his check.

That's the point, the check doesn't need to be finished there.

Timmins has his back towards Cogliano.

Timmins is already chipping the puck out of the zone.

Cogliano had time to peel off.

It's not the most egregious or dirty hit ever, and yes, it is a guy finishing his check, but the point is that the hit is not necessary and is dangerous.

 

[Alex Jones]

The hit shouldn’t have been made.

I mean you can parse it out and maybe you could argue it's a borderline hour from behind, but that hit happens every game. You have to be able to take that.

 

[henchman21]

I agree with your disagreement. Looked like a guy finishing his check, but unfortunate result if it is a concussion

I agree with your agreement on the disagreement.

 

[Anders Cain]

I agree with your agreement on the disagreement.

.... It seems we are in agreement then. Excellent.

 

[avsfan09]

I really want them to simplify the PP. Get someone in front, fire everything on net. Quick bumper passes rather than always trying for the readable cross ice

Exactly. Getting shots will open up that cross ice, but they telegraph it so the Stars are able to shut it down so easily.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

For a supposedly smart player, Timmins puts himself in AWFUL situations to get just clobbered by the opposing players.

Even if this isn't a concussion, he's got no future in the NHL because he's just going to continue putting himself in bad positions.

You hate to see it, but it is what it is with Timmins.

We’ll see what happens with him. I thought he played pretty well when in the lineup this series.

As for the injury, I’m not blaming him. The Stars are running around like crazed animals out there, it’s pretty hard not to get hit at least a few times.

 

[EdAVSfan]

That's the point, the check doesn't need to be finished there.

Timmins has his back towards Cogliano.

Timmins is already chipping the puck out of the zone.

Cogliano had time to peel off.

It's not the most egregious or dirty hit ever, and yes, it is a guy finishing his check, but the point is that the hit is not necessary and is dangerous.

Necessity and danger are two very vague explanationd for why a body check should not be executed.
There are many many hits in hockey that are dangerous and not necessary. That has very little bearing on whether it should be executed.

 

[xbestboybandever]

Necessity and danger are two very vague explanationd for why a body check should not be executed.
There are many many hits in hockey that are dangerous and not necessary. That has very little bearing on whether it should be executed.

What is vague about hitting a guy from behind at full speed?

My point is that there is a big difference between Timmins taking this kind of hit against an injury prone player like Kamenev taking hits because he isn't aware of his surroundings.

 

[henchman21]

Every player is preached at to finish their checks from the time they first allow hitting in the sport. In the NHL, in game 6 of the 2nd round, there is not a coach in the world that would want Cogliano to turn off and not hit a rookie defensemen in his 2nd playoff game. It was clean and a very normal part of the game. If Timmins got a concussion from that, it is very worrisome for his life in general, let alone playing hockey. Such a minor collision shouldn't have that result.

 

[SaltySkywalker]

I agree with your agreement on the disagreement.

I disagree with your agreement on the agreement of the disagreement, even though I don't disagree on the original agreement

 

[EdAVSfan]

What is vague about hitting a guy from behind at full speed?

That’s the only part of your argument that actually holds any water.

the problem is, this isn’t a blind hit from behind by Cogliano. This is Timmins knowing he’s there and making the play despite knowing he’s going to get hit.

timmins has the choice to make a lesser play to absorb the hit properly. He chose not to. That’s not on Cogliano. Both players have the ovligation to make sure the hit is executed properly, not just the hitter.

If Timmins had his back to the play, didn’t see Cogliano coming, and Cogliano just pastes through the numbers of a vulnerable player, that’s a different story.

that’s not the case here.

 

[xbestboybandever]

That’s the only part of your argument that actually holds any water.

the problem is, this isn’t a blind hit from behind by Cogliano. This is Timmins knowing he’s there and making the play despite knowing he’s going to get hit.

timmins has the choice to make a lesser play to absorb the hit properly. He chose not to. That’s not on Cogliano. Both players have the ovligation to make sure the hit is executed properly, not just the hitter.

If Timmins had his back to the play, didn’t see Cogliano coming, and Cogliano just pastes through the numbers of a vulnerable player, that’s a different story.

that’s not the case here.

Wait, I'm lost now. You agree that the hit is from behind, but it's not a blind hit from behind?

Timmins made the play, but Cogliano hits him from behind at full force. Should Timmins expect a hit, sure, but that hit, probably not.

I'm not saying it's a dirty or egregious hit, and yes these hits happen all the time, but when a player is injured, yes, that begins a critique about the play that hurt the player.

At no point does Timmins not have his back towards Cogliano, either. He is playing that puck on the back hand the entire way.

Again, I will ask this...

What is necessary about making that hit at full speed?

EDIT: Also, Cogliano has been suspended for making a hit that is late but could be argued as finishing his check.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Wait, I'm lost now. You agree that the hit is from behind, but it's not a blind hit from behind?

Timmins made the play, but Cogliano hits him from behind at full force. Should Timmins expect a hit, sure, but that hit, probably not.

I'm not saying it's a dirty or egregious hit, and yes these hits happen all the time, but when a player is injured, yes, that begins a critique about the play that hurt the player.

Again, I will ask this...

What is necessary about making that hit at full speed?

EDIT: Also, Cogliano has been suspended for making a hit that is late but could be argued as finishing his check.

Yes, a hit can be from behind and not be the hitters fault. It’s actually very common when players turn their backs to defenders.
Timmins knows he’s coming. He EASILU could’ve taken the hit in the shoulder and avoided the contact he received.

Cogliano is doing nothing wrong here.

this argument you keep making about necessity is completely unfounded. TONS of nhl body checks are unnecessary. When Zadorov was laying out guys in open-ice, did you argue that the hit was dangerous and unnecessary?

Cogliano is trying to create a turnover, a problem, make Timmins think twice about what he’s about to do, or do on future plays.

not all hits where you hit numbers is the hitters fault.

 

[xbestboybandever]

Yes, a hit can be from behind and not be the hitters fault. It’s actually very common when players turn their backs to defenders.
Timmins knows he’s coming. He EASILU could’ve taken the hit in the shoulder and avoided the contact he received.

Cogliano is doing nothing wrong here.

this argument you keep making about necessity is completely unfounded. TONS of nhl body checks are unnecessary. When Zadorov was laying out guys in open-ice, did you argue that the hit was dangerous and unnecessary?

Cogliano is trying to create a turnover, a problem, make Timmins think twice about what he’s about to do, or do on future plays.

not all hits where you hit numbers is the hitters fault.

But I brought that up, at what point does Timmins turn his back into Cogliano?

Are there lots of unnecessary hits in hockey, yes, but not all of them result in injury. The ones that do, are open to criticism. Again, should Timmins expect a hit there, yes, but he shouldn't be expecting that hit. When he takes the puck from behind the net up until Cogliano hits him, Timmins is on the backhand and has his numbers toward Cogliano the ENTIRE lead up to the hit. Cogliano as the hitter is responsible for not making that hit or taking a different angle that doesn't make hitting Timmins in the numbers the point of impact.

This is all why I am saying the hit is borderline.

 

[EdAVSfan]

But I brought that up, at what point does Timmins turn his back into Cogliano?

Are there lots of unnecessary hits in hockey, yes, but not all of them result in injury. The ones that do, are open to criticism. Again, should Timmins expect a hit there, yes, but he shouldn't be expecting that hit. When he takes the puck from behind the net up until Cogliano hits him, Timmins is on the backhand and has his numbers toward Cogliano the ENTIRE lead up to the hit. Cogliano as the hitter is responsible for not making that hit or taking a different angle that doesn't make hitting Timmins in the numbers the point of impact.

This is all why I am saying the hit is borderline.

I don’t think anyone disagrees that it could looked at as borderline.

the problem is, it’s playoff hockey and you know there’s always going to be far more physical play and hitting.

i don’t really see fault on Cogliano. He’s making a play that every player should be making. You finish your hit. Cogliano has committed to hit quite a ways back. He knows he has no chance to get to the puck first. So again, Timmins chooses to peel up ice with puck. He could’ve swatted it away immediately and prepared for the hit he knew was coming.

This unfortunately is the type of hit you see pretty regularly. Any other player prob just bounces off and keeps going. Unfortunately for Timmins, his history is potentially playing a big part in this.

 

[xbestboybandever]

I don’t think anyone disagrees that it could looked at as borderline.

the problem is, it’s playoff hockey and you know there’s always going to be far more physical play and hitting.

i don’t really see fault on Cogliano. He’s making a play that every player should be making. You finish your hit. Cogliano has committed to hit quite a ways back. He knows he has no chance to get to the puck first. So again, Timmins chooses to peel up ice with puck. He could’ve swatted it away immediately and prepared for the hit he knew was coming.

This unfortunately is the type of hit you see pretty regularly. Any other player prob just bounces off and keeps going. Unfortunately for Timmins, his history is potentially playing a big part in this.

So let me get this straight, Cogliano has committed to the hit from a ways away while Timmins is showing numbers the whole time.

Cogliano knows he can not get to the puck so he is committing to the hit, but instead of changing his angle or force he hits the kid from behind and the impact forces his head to bounce of the glass.

Yet you don't see anything how any fault could be laid at Cogliano's feet? This is my whole argument.

Making that hit is not necessary and he could have played it differently.

Here is the Kempe hit:

He commits from a ways away to make the hit and this is how it plays out. It is different in that it's late and the point of contact is the head, but he does have a history of following through on borderline hits.



This is his reaction after his suspension:

He knows exactly what he is doing and should know better than making that hit.

 

[EdAVSfan]

So let me get this straight, Cogliano has committed to the hit from a ways away while Timmins is showing numbers the whole time.

Cogliano knows he can not get to the puck so he is committing to the hit, but instead of changing his angle or force he hits the kid from behind and the impact forces his head to bounce of the glass.

Yet you don't see anything how any fault could be laid at Cogliano's feet? This is my whole argument.

Making that hit is not necessary and he could have played it differently.

Here is the Kempe hit:

He commits from a ways away to make the hit and this is how it plays out. It is different in that it's late and the point of contact is the head, but he does have a history of following through on borderline hits.



This is his reaction after his suspension:

He knows exactly what he is doing and should know better than making that hit.

At no point is anyone suggesting that Cogliano has no fault here. Both players easily could’ve done something to avoid injury. But this type of hit is rather normal. It happens so often.
This discussion started by you stating that the hit should’ve never been made because it was unnecessary and dangerous. I disagree on that point.

Was it borderline? Yes. Was it suspendable? Not In my opinion. Would I expect an Avs forward to do the same hit in that situation? Absolutely.

You mentioned several times that injury should bring more criticism. I simply highly disagree. This hit should get far less criticism as opposed to the Benn hit on Girard. Regardless of the outcome.
This hit is far more grey. The other is quite clearly an attempt to injure, no question.

 

[xbestboybandever]

At no point is anyone suggesting that Cogliano has no fault here. Both players easily could’ve done something to avoid injury. But this type of hit is rather normal. It happens so often.
This discussion started by you stating that the hit should’ve never been made because it was unnecessary and dangerous. I disagree on that point.

Was it borderline? Yes. Was it suspendable? Not In my opinion. Would I expect an Avs forward to do the same hit in that situation? Absolutely.

You mentioned several times that injury should bring more criticism. I simply highly disagree. This hit should get far less criticism as opposed to the Benn hit on Girard. Regardless of the outcome.
This hit is far more grey. The other is quite clearly an attempt to injure, no question.

"i don’t really see fault on Cogliano. He’s making a play that every player should be making."

You just said this. You say both players could have done something, but if a hit is borderline, what is Timmins supposed to do? He is expecting to get shoulder checked, not hit from behind at full force. In this situation, Cogliano should not be making that type of hit. That aggressive and borderline of a hit in that situation is not necessary.

I also don't think that injury should bring more criticism, I said that when a player is hurt (whether the hit is clean or dirty) the hit that created the injury will become more scrutinized.

So, Cogliano commits a borderline hit that results in a player being injured, that doesn't justify looking more closely at the hit.

 

[Pokecheque]

I agree with your disagreement. Looked like a guy finishing his check, but unfortunate result if it is a concussion

I disagree with your agreement on the disagreement. Cogliano saw numbers the whole way AND it was a late hit. It's one of those dumb checks that always gets made, doesn't mean it should be made.