Value of: Rhs Dman to Calgary

[FameFlame069]

Bennett + Jankowski + conditional pick for Pageau and DeMelo

Condition being it is a 2nd, but if the Flames make the post season it becomes a 1st.

Is their someone who can replace Bennett in here? Mang?

 

[FameFlame069]

Shultz for brodie. .. similar value. Right hand shot ve left hand shot

You really think this trade helps both teams? Im trying to bolster the team defense ,especially since Gio might be out. If im trading away one of our dman its going to be Hamonic. I'd keep Brodie and lose him for nothing... even though hes probably worth more than Hamonic.
But I think id keep Brodie over Justin Schultz*

 

[FameFlame069]

Hainsey hasn't been so good you don't want him.

Edmunson could be had for a 2nd and can play both sides.

Well I was thinking Hainsey because i think hed work well with Hamonic on the 3rd/PK

 

[CraigsList]

Bennett + Jankowski + conditional pick for Pageau and DeMelo

Condition being it is a 2nd, but if the Flames make the post season it becomes a 1st.

Nope

 

[405Exit]

I'm not even referring to the flames, I just mean in general

Not entirely sure what he’s talking about. Manson is coming off a down season this year. And The team is in need of a shakeup. I’m sure it’s not going to be an overkill offer to have him moved. As we inch closer to the 24th, more and more teams will be upping their offers for his services. Mainly because he’s cheap, signed to a good contract with term, young, as well as RHD.

I’m not going to be shocked if he’s traded for First + A- prospect at TDL. Or Something along the lines of Vatanen and Montour at the very least.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Bennett + Jankowski + conditional pick for Pageau and DeMelo

Condition being it is a 2nd, but if the Flames make the post season it becomes a 1st.

Thats a lot for 2 rentals, if Demelo comes with an extension attached then sure but make the condition based on WFC/Pageau resign

 

[bernmeister]

Not this year.

- Giordano is our best LD, and he's excellent. But he hasn't been very effective offensively this year as his shot just hasn't been dangerous whether that's on the powerplay or even strength. We badly need him to channel his Norris form. At least he's solid defensively though. But he just got injured and we don't know how long or whether he'll be solid when he returns.

- Brodie is our best RD, and he's excellent. But he's a lefthanded shot and the coaches think that every time a LD gets injured it's time to plop Brodie back on the left side where he's not so excellent.

- Andersson is our second best RD, and he's pretty good. But he's also relatively unproven when elevated up the lineup and generally plays on our 3rd pair with the occasional bump-up game.

- Kylington is our second best LD, and he's pretty damn good. Occasionally has a rough outting with respect to turnovers which is typical for a high-skill D his age but overall he's a future star in the waiting and he's pretty solid right now. But he's also unproven up the lineup as the team mistakenly treats him with kid gloves instead of feeding him tons of icetime to get better and more confident.

- Valimaki is our third best LD, and he's pretty damn good. He's also injured.

- Hanifin is our fourth best LD, and he can be good... but he's played too high up the lineup given his unspectacular toolset/skillset. His so-called smooth skating doesn't really tend to have the impact of the skating of any of the five players above him on this list, and his reads without the puck tend to err on the side of cringeworthy.

- Hamonic is our third best RD, and he's not what he used to be. I don't know if it's injuries, or mental, or just age-related wear-and-tear, but he's been unable to play an aggressive defensive game all year and it's been our team's achilles' heel because he logs top 4 minutes but has barely looked like a top 6 regular, if that. If this were Hamonic from a calendar year ago, it would be a different story. But sometime near the end of last season his play fell off, and this carried through to an atrocious playoff series and he hasn't been able to recover all year.

- Stone is our fourth best RD, and he's been sketchy at-best. Just doesn't seem to have the defensive hockey IQ or footspeed to be a net positive. When he's in the game and Hamonic is as well, that means they combine to be a cakewalk into our defensive zone. He wouldn't be the worst #6 to have if all the other five were great, but the struggles of Hamonic and Hanifin really magnify Stone's struggles.

- Yelesin is our fifth best RD. If you just asked "who?" - there's a reason for that. He's a Russian who's spent most of the season in the AHL and to call him unproven would be an understatement. Trading Adam Fox away along with Dougie Hamilton really cannibalized our right side depth.

- Davidson is our fifth best LD. He's actually a perfect depth piece. We may need to call him up with the Giordano injury. The biggest problem with Davidson isn't Davidson, it's the fact that he's a left D and rarely draws into the lineup with the team's inane decision to play Brodie on the left side or to never scratch Hanifin when he's being a liability.

an excellent, insightful post helpful to those of us who do not see CGY regularly.

Deangelo fits the bill and is an immediate impact this season. You are retaining rfa, but he will insist on getting paid. Can offer fast negotiation and contract [I'm guessing 4.5 x 8] if you want max term, then sign and trade.*
But we want to get paid.
Some guys you pay to get rid of
Some go for market rate
Others command top $.
Dea gets a premium.

* however, if we extend, then another piece for cap balance may be involved.
Assuming Dea as is....

Deangelo .9+ expiring w/rfa + Skjei 5.25 x 5 + Smith .435 thru next season at half is like 2.175 per
cap is ballpark 10.5
for
Flames next 4 1sts: 2020, 2021, 2022 + 2023 + Lucic 5.25 x 4 + Bennett, 2.55 x 2

Analysis:
CGY -
Deangelo will command mid to late 1st + appreciable asset which could be viewed here as another late 1st
Rangers want no part of the albatross contract that is Lucic. Flames signed Neal which was not terribad on paper, but then that really did not work out, so they were forced to consider change of pace deal to get out from under that one. Skjei is worth ballpark +/- a 1st with an add, and it is worth 2 1sts to move Lucic.
Obviously, add of Deangelo + Skjei = build move beyond this season, while helping current campaign.
As part of this, Flames happily eat Smith fully retained for Bennett.
The picks are expensive, but they are lay-a-way, and Calgary is getting value upfront for what it is paying over time.

NYR -
gets 1sts
repurposes 2 vets making room for emerging D prospects
get out from under Smith, Bennett may/may not be fit, but is more moveable in any case
We do not win in taking Lucic --- the only saving grace is his deal is 1 yr less. We are taking a prudent gamble that prior to the draft, there may be a handful of compliance buyouts which will only cost $, not restrain cap, and that we can then buyout Lucic. It is a risk, but one worth taking IF this is the return.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

an excellent, insightful post helpful to those of us who do not see CGY regularly.

Deangelo fits the bill and is an immediate impact this season. You are retaining rfa, but he will insist on getting paid. Can offer fast negotiation and contract [I'm guessing 4.5 x 8] if you want max term, then sign and trade.*
But we want to get paid.
Some guys you pay to get rid of
Some go for market rate
Others command top $.
Dea gets a premium.

* however, if we extend, then another piece for cap balance may be involved.
Assuming Dea as is....

Deangelo .9+ expiring w/rfa + Skjei 5.25 x 5 + Smith .435 thru next season at half is like 2.175 per
cap is ballpark 10.5
for
Flames next 4 1sts: 2020, 2021, 2022 + 2023 + Lucic 5.25 x 4 + Bennett, 2.55 x 2

Analysis:
CGY -
Deangelo will command mid to late 1st + appreciable asset which could be viewed here as another late 1st
Rangers want no part of the albatross contract that is Lucic. Flames signed Neal which was not terribad on paper, but then that really did not work out, so they were forced to consider change of pace deal to get out from under that one. Skjei is worth ballpark +/- a 1st with an add, and it is worth 2 1sts to move Lucic.
Obviously, add of Deangelo + Skjei = build move beyond this season, while helping current campaign.
As part of this, Flames happily eat Smith fully retained for Bennett.
The picks are expensive, but they are lay-a-way, and Calgary is getting value upfront for what it is paying over time.

NYR -
gets 1sts
repurposes 2 vets making room for emerging D prospects
get out from under Smith, Bennett may/may not be fit, but is more moveable in any case
We do not win in taking Lucic --- the only saving grace is his deal is 1 yr less. We are taking a prudent gamble that prior to the draft, there may be a handful of compliance buyouts which will only cost $, not restrain cap, and that we can then buyout Lucic. It is a risk, but one worth taking IF this is the return.

Um Bern i get that you always do this but can you clean this up? Are you saying Flames are essentially sending their next 4 1st to dump Lucic and get inly DeAngelo?

 

[FameFlame069]

an excellent, insightful post helpful to those of us who do not see CGY regularly.

Deangelo fits the bill and is an immediate impact this season. You are retaining rfa, but he will insist on getting paid. Can offer fast negotiation and contract [I'm guessing 4.5 x 8] if you want max term, then sign and trade.*
But we want to get paid.
Some guys you pay to get rid of
Some go for market rate
Others command top $.
Dea gets a premium.

* however, if we extend, then another piece for cap balance may be involved.
Assuming Dea as is....

Deangelo .9+ expiring w/rfa + Skjei 5.25 x 5 + Smith .435 thru next season at half is like 2.175 per
cap is ballpark 10.5
for
Flames next 4 1sts: 2020, 2021, 2022 + 2023 + Lucic 5.25 x 4 + Bennett, 2.55 x 2

Analysis:
CGY -
Deangelo will command mid to late 1st + appreciable asset which could be viewed here as another late 1st
Rangers want no part of the albatross contract that is Lucic. Flames signed Neal which was not terribad on paper, but then that really did not work out, so they were forced to consider change of pace deal to get out from under that one. Skjei is worth ballpark +/- a 1st with an add, and it is worth 2 1sts to move Lucic.
Obviously, add of Deangelo + Skjei = build move beyond this season, while helping current campaign.
As part of this, Flames happily eat Smith fully retained for Bennett.
The picks are expensive, but they are lay-a-way, and Calgary is getting value upfront for what it is paying over time.

NYR -
gets 1sts
repurposes 2 vets making room for emerging D prospects
get out from under Smith, Bennett may/may not be fit, but is more moveable in any case
We do not win in taking Lucic --- the only saving grace is his deal is 1 yr less. We are taking a prudent gamble that prior to the draft, there may be a handful of compliance buyouts which will only cost $, not restrain cap, and that we can then buyout Lucic. It is a risk, but one worth taking IF this is the return.

NO THANKS

Do i even have to start? You're literally trying to trade us 3 dmen? Honestly? DeAngelo is the only interesting player coming back and theres no way id pay 4 1sts and Bennett in here, DeAngelo for Lucic + 2 1st's in the next 3 years(20-22, Rangers can pick one and Flames can pick one) +3rd in the year we keep our 1st

 

[bernmeister]

Um Bern i get that you always do this but can you clean this up? Are you saying Flames are essentially sending their next 4 1st to dump Lucic and get inly DeAngelo?

no, sorry, thought it was explicitly clear..
next 4 AND Bennett
to
add Deangelo AND Skjei AND dump Lucic and take Smith at half [expires next season]

 

[Americanadian]

TOR in: Anderson, Bennett
TOR out: Kapanen

CGY in: Savard, Kapanen
CGY out: Monahan, Bennett

CBJ in: Monahan
CBJ out: Savard, Anderson

 

[bernmeister]

NO THANKS

Do i even have to start? You're literally trying to trade us 3 dmen? Honestly? DeAngelo is the only interesting player coming back and theres no way id pay 4 1sts and Bennett in here, DeAngelo for Lucic + 2 1st's in the next 3 years(20-22, Rangers can pick one and Flames can pick one) +3rd in the year we keep our 1st

3 dmen: while Smith is adequate as an emergency 7th guy who prefers right but shoots left and can play either side, at this pt he is a 4LW offering grit only.
However, if I'm taking Lucic, regardless of what else is involved, the other side is taking Smith --- w or w/o retention depending on cap specifics and other aspects of the deal --- but Smith is going.

As to what I gather is a counter offer, please clarify, it was too muddled to understand.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

no, sorry, thought it was explicitly clear..
next 4 AND Bennett
to
add Deangelo AND Skjei AND dump Lucic and take Smith at half [expires next season]

Well when you put a bunch of text and reasoning in the middle it makes it harder to follow. No from Calgary Lucic is doing fine here no reason to try and ditch his contract. DeAngelo is the only piece of interest coming back as Skjei will be the 5th/6th best LD on the team next year and Smith is also just a cap dump.

 

[AKL]

The ask for Dumba would be Monahan or Lindholm

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

TOR in: Anderson, Bennett
TOR out: Kapanen

CGY in: Savard, Kapanen
CGY out: Monahan, Bennett

CBJ in: Monahan
CBJ out: Savard, Anderson

So Flames trade their 1C for... a 2nd pair RD and a middle 6 forward. Yeah good one, moving on

 

[Americanadian]

So Flames trade their 1C for... a 2nd pair RD and a middle 6 forward. Yeah good one, moving on

I was under the impression that flames fans were not in love with Monahan as 1C.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Not entirely sure what he’s talking about. Manson is coming off a down season this year. And The team is in need of a shakeup. I’m sure it’s not going to be an overkill offer to have him moved. As we inch closer to the 24th, more and more teams will be upping their offers for his services. Mainly because he’s cheap, signed to a good contract with term, young, as well as RHD.

I’m not going to be shocked if he’s traded for First + A- prospect at TDL. Or Something along the lines of Vatanen and Montour at the very least.

It was all written in plain English, Ducksgo.

Friedman has direct quotes from GMs stating that the Ducks love Manson and they'd be surprised to see him moved. That obviously doesn't mean he for sure won't be traded, but it will take a young piece of great interest, and I don't believe the Flames have the prospect pool to beat out other offers.

You just suggested a 1st + A- prospect....the Flames don't have an A- prospect, someone else would make a more intriguing offer.

 

[bernmeister]

Well when you put a bunch of text and reasoning in the middle it makes it harder to follow. No from Calgary Lucic is doing fine here no reason to try and ditch his contract. DeAngelo is the only piece of interest coming back as Skjei will be the 5th/6th best LD on the team next year and Smith is also just a cap dump.

Fine.
If your assessment of Lucic is representative of Flames fans generally, and I have no reason to take you at less than face value, then if such is the case, offer is withdrawn.

The whole premise is Lucic as recent history shows is he is still a contract albatross, the same who invoked SO MANY pleas from Oiler fans to lose him.
However, if you now advise that he is adequately productive and back concerns are no longer an issue, that fully changes the dynamic.

---------------
Skjei I agree is not a fit unless totality of circumstances justify.

Deangleo is significant add and on the table, but you must offer best bid.
He will not be made available cheap.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I was under the impression that flames fans were not in love with Monahan as 1C.

Regardless who tf is replacing him? Add PLD and we throw in a 1st. Monahan just hit 400 points a week ago and still leads his draft year in goals. This is a horrible offer

 

[405Exit]

It was all written in plain English, Ducksgo.

Friedman has direct quotes from GMs stating that the Ducks love Manson and they'd be surprised to see him moved. That obviously doesn't mean he for sure won't be traded, but it will take a young piece of great interest, and I don't believe the Flames have the prospect pool to beat out other offers.

You just suggested a 1st + A- prospect....the Flames don't have an A- prospect, someone else would make a more intriguing offer.

He wasn’t talking about the flames. And neither was I. Did you even read what he replied to you? Not sure why you keep mentioning the flames. When neither of us were talking about them. I suggest reading next time. It will do wonders for you in future posts.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

He wasn’t talking about the flames. And neither was I. Did you read what he replied to you? Not sure why you keep mentioning the flames. When neither of us were talking about them.

The thread is entitled "RHS Dman to Calgary" and OP asked about Manson, I am discussing the possibility of Manson being dealt to Calgary which as I just explained, I find highly unlikely based on the young pieces they have. I really don't know what you're struggling with here.

 

[405Exit]

The thread is entitled "RHS Dman to Calgary" and OP asked about Manson, I am discussing the possibility of Manson being dealt to Calgary which as I just explained, I find highly unlikely based on the young pieces they have. I really don't know what you're struggling with here.

Which we weren’t. The poster was talking about value when he replied to you. And you replied back thinking it’s flames related when it clearly wasn’t. Then on top of that reply back to me on my comment thinking it was flames related as well. Not sure why you’re not reading the replies first before replying back.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Which we weren’t. The poster was talking about value when he replied to you. And you replied back thinking it’s flames related when it clearly wasn’t.

You're about to try and tell me why your opinion about Manson's availability holds more weight than direct quotes from NHL GMs, and that's really dumb. So let's just agree to skip that and move on Ducksgo.

 

[Americanadian]

Regardless who tf is replacing him? Add PLD and we throw in a 1st. Monahan just hit 400 points a week ago and still leads his draft year in goals. This is a horrible offer

Assuming some collection of Lindholm, Ryan, Dube, Backlund, Jankowski down the middle.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Fine.
If your assessment of Lucic is representative of Flames fans generally, and I have no reason to take you at less than face value, then if such is the case, offer is withdrawn.

The whole premise is Lucic as recent history shows is he is still a contract albatross, the same who invoked SO MANY pleas from Oiler fans to lose him.
However, if you now advise that he is adequately productive and back concerns are no longer an issue, that fully changes the dynamic.

---------------
Skjei I agree is not a fit unless totality of circumstances justify.

Deangleo is significant add and on the table, but you must offer best bid.
He will not be made available cheap.

Alright Bern lets clarify some things. The Lucic contract is 100% an albatross. he is at least 3M overpaid, but he is not useless. Unlike in Edmonton he is happy playing in Calgary and a leader in the dressing room. He brought a much needed toughness to the team that we didn't have last playoffs. Yes goal scoring has been a problem for the team this year and people can point to Neals 18 goals and say "oh look" but Flames were 2nd in the league last year for production and Neal was useless. Lucic has not been the worst guy on the team either, he hasn't been benched once this year and shows good chemistry with Ryan.

Skjei makes no sense, he has a long term expensive contract and all of Gio, Hanifin and Valimaki are better. there is no logical match there.

I do like Deangelo, I think moving forward he would be a great partner D for Valimaki but in no world would I trade multiple 1sts to get him, especially with the expansion coming up