Revisiting the Hagelin/Etem trade

[haveandare]

The part where one must show a little something. Anything. As opposed to.....NOTHING!

He cycles well and has nice speed to the outside.

You saying something doesn't make it so 100%

 

[Raspewtin]

The part where one must show a little something. Anything. As opposed to.....NOTHING!

This is so subjective. I'm just not seeing what you're seeing. I've seen some good things from Etem. Good speed, ability to win footraces and hound on the forecheck. It hasn't been very consistent but it's been there.

I really don't think Etem's been a world beater, but he definitely warrants a spot in the line-up for obvious reasons, especially over a low-risk, no reward player like Tanner Glass.

 

[True Blue]

This is so subjective.

Off course it is subjective. That is my view of it. Much like the below is equally subjective:
but he definitely warrants a spot in the line-up for obvious reasons, especially over a low-risk, no reward player like Tanner Glass.

 

[JohnC]

I really don't think Etem's been a world beater, but he definitely warrants a spot in the line-up for obvious reasons, especially over a low-risk, no reward player like Tanner Glass.

I've been waiting for Tanner Glass to show SOMETHING since #PreaseasonHypeFest2014

 

[Edge]

You can't really seize the situation when you're not put in a role to succeed. Play him with Moore/Stoll/Glass etc... And you won't see much. Just look at Stempniak. He was played on the 4th line last year with non offensive players last year and did nothing. Now he plays with Cammalleri and Henrique and on the powerplay and he's been great. If you really want to see what Etem can be he needs to be played in an offensive role for a period of time. Not just a game or two and then move him down if they don't score.

In fairness though, Stempniak had also established himself by playing some 650 NHL games and scoring 150 some odd goals.

I'm not really sure what kind of player Etem is, I don't think Anaheim was either. He's done just about all he can do at the AHL level, but he hasn't yet figured out how to translate that into a role at the NHL level.

He's got a lot of the tools most scorers do, but he hasn't really been a scorer. He's got the size to player a power game, but he's not really a power forward. His hockey sense, at least to this point, isn't lacking in its development.

It's easy to see why he's gotten this far. What's harder to see is where he goes from here.

 

[Mikos87]

It's easy to see why he's gotten this far. What's harder to see is where he goes from here.

Exactly, he doesn't fill a role. You look at a guy like him and you say he either has to come to the conclusion that he won't be a scorer in the NHL and adapt his game into that of a checker or go and be a top line talent on some team in the Euroleagues.

I was looking at his 60 goal highlights in junior, and the way he scored isn't going to translate against NHL goalies.

He's not smart defensively or responsible enough to protect a lead, kill penalties, drive possession by getting it out of the zone.

He's not physical enough to establish a forecheck with his speed.

He's not consistent enough to show up every shift, let alone every game.

And now he's had two teams that push him down their line up despite all of the physical tools.

My biggest questions on him now: "Is he a team guy?" "Does he put it all out there in practice?"

If so then maybe just maybe you give him a prolonged look on merit and not just because you lack depth.

Personally I move him and a pick for a young 90's born forward that has some seasoning and can fill a role.

 

[Inferno]

Exactly, he doesn't fill a role. You look at a guy like him and you say he either has to come to the conclusion that he won't be a scorer in the NHL and adapt his game into that of a checker or go and be a top line talent on some team in the Euroleagues.

I was looking at his 60 goal highlights in junior, and the way he scored isn't going to translate against NHL goalies.

He's not smart defensively or responsible enough to protect a lead, kill penalties, drive possession by getting it out of the zone.

He's not physical enough to establish a forecheck with his speed.

He's not consistent enough to show up every shift, let alone every game.

And now he's had two teams that push him down their line up despite all of the physical tools.

My biggest questions on him now: "Is he a team guy?" "Does he put it all out there in practice?"

If so then maybe just maybe you give him a prolonged look on merit and not just because you lack depth.

Personally I move him and a pick for a young 90's born forward that has some seasoning and can fill a role.

didnt he score most of his goals by going to the net?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Why is this so hard to understand? Spot on.

Probably because its BS. Etem got some run in the top 9. He did nothing. He got some time on the 4th line. He did nothing. How about he proves something, somewhere in the lineup before we breach this wayward hypothesis that he simply needs to be playing with better players.

 

[Raspewtin]

Off course it is subjective. That is my view of it. Much like the below is equally subjective:
but he definitely warrants a spot in the line-up for obvious reasons, especially over a low-risk, no reward player like Tanner Glass.

Fair enough. But removing the names "Emerson Etem" and "Tanner Glass", how much does this proposal make sense?

"Play a 23 year old, who hasn't found his niche, but has plenty of raw skill and tools to work with, and attempt to mold him into a useful player. he's also quite cheap. The other option being, literally, the most expensive 13th forward in the NHL, that you'll be hard pressed to find positive contributions from."

 

[Raspewtin]

Probably because its BS. Etem got some run in the top 9. He did nothing. He got some time on the 4th line. He did nothing. How about he proves something, somewhere in the lineup before we breach this wayward hypothesis that he simply needs to be playing with better players.

Emerson Etem played just under 28 minutes with Mats Zuccarello and Derick Brassard. He spent more than twice those minutes with either Jarret Stoll or Dominic Moore. You're not gonna like this but he was 51% CF with Brassard and Zuccarello, in just under two games of "sample size". That's my whole problem here, when did two games become more than enough to decide "he's a fit and he's shown something"? Especially because as soon as a goal isn't scored, he's back on the 4th line, where he clearly doesn't fit.

It's not a matter of "playing with better players". It's a matter of, don't expect someone to succeed when you have no clear definition of success. And that's what putting Etem with Stoll and Moore indicates to me.

 

[WesMcCauley]

It was zucc or hagelin that had to go. No doubt Sather did the right move.
Zucc at 4,5 is so much better than hagelin at 4 mill. I would rater pay zucc 7 mill than have hagelin at 4....
Hags is a solid 3rd liner, nothing more nothing less. I would love him on nyr but in a salary cap world on a team like nyr thats Always up against the cap, paying him more than 3 mill is stupid.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Emerson Etem played just under 28 minutes with Mats Zuccarello and Derick Brassard. He spent more than twice those minutes with either Jarret Stoll or Dominic Moore. You're not gonna like this but he was 51% CF with Brassard and Zuccarello, in just under two games of "sample size". That's my whole problem here, when did two games become more than enough to decide "he's a fit and he's shown something"? Especially because as soon as a goal isn't scored, he's back on the 4th line, where he clearly doesn't fit.

It's not a matter of "playing with better players". It's a matter of, don't expect someone to succeed when you have no clear definition of success. And that's what putting Etem with Stoll and Moore indicates to me.

Theres quite a few players I'd rather have playing with Zuccarello and Brassard over Etem. I think that goes without saying.

The reason there is no clear definition of success with Etem is because -- in both Anaheim and here -- he hasn't been able to prove what type of NHL player he is. Thats not on any coaching staff. Thats on him.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

It was zucc or hagelin that had to go. No doubt Sather did the right move.
Zucc at 4,5 is so much better than hagelin at 4 mill. I would rater pay zucc 7 mill than have hagelin at 4....
Hags is a solid 3rd liner, nothing more nothing less. I would love him on nyr but in a salary cap world on a team like nyr thats Always up against the cap, paying him more than 3 mill is stupid.

I think he was a little more than a solid 3rd liner for this team. No, it doesnt justify his salary, but the team misses him undoubtedly. The Rangers fore check has been pathetic this season. Hagelin's speed regularly disrupted the opposition, and thats almost completely missing this season. Someone like Kreider should be picking up the slack, but hes a pretty dumb player.

 

[Raspewtin]

Theres quite a few players I'd rather have playing with Zuccarello and Brassard over Etem. I think that goes without saying.

I agree with this.

The reason there is no clear definition of success with Etem is because -- in both Anaheim and here -- he hasn't been able to prove what type of NHL player he is. Thats not on any coaching staff. Thats on him.

It's on both.

Etem was very good in ANA with top 9 players last season. Sekac, Rakell, Getzlaf, and Kesler all saw increases in performance with Etem. Etem was horrible when played with sub NHL'ers like Devante Smith-Pelly, Tim Jackman, and Nate Thompson. I thought Etem was playing the best hockey of his career in the playoffs last year. But before that best hockey, he had two-three years of poor hockey. This is on Boudreau AND Etem.

It's the same here. Etem needs to help himself but putting him with Stoll and Moore in hard situations isn't the answer, especially for players that don't know who they are at this level yet.

 

[True Blue]

Sekac, Rakell, Getzlaf, and Kesler all saw increases in performance with Etem.

Are you implying that Etem somehow made those other players better?

It's the same here. Etem needs to help himself but putting him with Stoll and Moore in hard situations isn't the answer, especially for players that don't know who they are at this level yet.

How about starting with showing a pulse? What does it really say that Tanner Glass has been more visible?

 

[Raspewtin]

Are you implying that Etem somehow made those other players better?

yah

How about starting with showing a pulse? What does it really say that Tanner Glass has been more visible?

Okay this whole "showing a pulse" shtick is getting really old and doesn't add anything to the discussion from either side.

 

[SA16]

Are you implying that Etem somehow made those other players better?

How about starting with showing a pulse? What does it really say that Tanner Glass has been more visible?

I'm not sure why you're expecting a player to succeed when he's being put in a role that doesn't suit him. Etem's always been an offensive player in his minor league career. He's always been considered an offensive prospect. If you put him with 4th liners and give him extreme defensive zone starts with unskilled players he won't show anything. The whole "show me something before you get promoted" thing is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Etem played half his ice time this year with Stoll. He got 5.5% offensive zone starts and 45.5% defensive zone starts. He is not going to show you anything playing like that. He's going to be hemmed in his own zone most of the time and a successful shift would basically be just getting the puck out of the zone into the offensive zone.

If you want to give Etem a chance to "show something" he needs to be played in an offensive role for an extended period of time. That does not mean put him on the top line. Look at how the Brass/Zucc/Pouliot line was used two seasons ago. They were considered the third line going into it with a few project-type wingers (Behind the Stepan line and the Richards line). They were given 35-40% offensive zone starts and did a great job as all three are skilled players. Etem can be used in the same way. Put him on the third line with Hayes (or Lindberg) and then someone like Miller or Stalberg and leave him there for a few weeks and see how things go. Putting him there for a game or two and then pulling him if there's no production is not giving them a fair chance.

In any case we've already given Fast plenty of time on the 2nd/3rd line and he's done nothing to show he's capable of performing in that role while we do know he can be an asset in a 4th line role. This is as simple as flipping Fast with Etem. Let Fast use his abilities to win board battles/play positionally on the 4th line with Glass and Moore and then let Etem use his skating/creativity/passing to play in a spot where he is expecting to product offense with Kreider and Lindberg (looking at todays lines).

 

[HFBS]

I'm not sure why you're expecting a player to succeed when he's being put in a role that doesn't suit him. Etem's always been an offensive player in his minor league career. He's always been considered an offensive prospect. If you put him with 4th liners and give him extreme defensive zone starts with unskilled players he won't show anything.

He's playing on the 4th line because he's not good enough to play on the 1st or 2nd lines. Does this really have to be said? The guy is WORTHLESS.

 

[SA16]

He's playing on the 4th line because he's not good enough to play on the 1st or 2nd lines. Does this really have to be said? The guy is WORTHLESS.

Thanks for the ANALYSIS.

Also try working on your reading comprehension. If you do that you'll see I said "that does not mean putting him on the top line...put him on the third line with Hayes (or Lindberg)..."

 

[Problematique]

Let's be honest, when Hagelin wasn't scoring (which was most of the time last season) he was basically Darrole Powe on NOS.

 

[Inferno]

i thought Etem was terrible tonight. Looked completely lost out there.

 

[Ranger Wolf]

My bro hanging with Hagelin yesterday.

 

[Ail]

Hags could actually be a rancher.

 

[Vitto79]

This deal still needs time since etem has been scratched and mainly plays 4th line . He's here for a while so will get more chances . Moore , stalberg ufa likely gone next year

 

[True Blue]

I'm not sure why you're expecting a player to succeed when he's being put in a role that doesn't suit him. Etem's always been an offensive player in his minor league career. He's always been considered an offensive prospect.

I expect Etem not necessarily to produce goals, but show some sort of offensive proclivity. Or some reason as to why he deserves any ice time at all. So far, I have not seen it.