Reunited and it feels so good

[BigDaddyLurch]

Haha I may not know what makes a good GM, but after 9 years at least I can tell a bad GM. Let's see Molson do that!

Geoff Molson Interviewing his first candidate for GM:

 

[Sterling Archer]

You keep moving the goalposts and changing your arguments, thanks for proving my point about their quality.

This is the argument I was responding to:
"After Roy left, the team went parabolic and hasn’t looked back. So outside of a couple of good coaching years, keeping Sakic as GM and losing Roy was the right decision."

There are basically 2 stupid claims in your phrase:
1) That you could predict what would have been the performance of the team with Roy still at the helm as coach. It's basic logic false. The good performance of the team after Roy isn't proof against him.
2) That you could discount the effect Roy had as a coach on the new core and their selection.

And then you speculate, again. "and literally quit because no one was listening to him" - False.

Patrick Roy resigns from Avalanche

"He was consulted on everything," Sakic said. "Obviously early on when I was getting comfortable in my role, I relied on him more. Now as we built up our staff, especially in season, we allowed Patrick to focus more on coaching. In the offseason we started working on free agents together.

Not being on the same page and not being listened to are two very different things.

And then you add nonsense like this: "responsible for all hockey-related personnel decisions for the past 8 years" - False.

Again, in reality, a team is more than 1 person.

Are you trying to convince me the guy who was there for 3 years, quit because no one listened to him is responsible for building the Avs and not the guy who made all the decisions and built the actual team for the last 8 years? Just want to make sure what position on the hill you’re dying on.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

You sir, are a gluton for punishment
I think my tv now has learned to change channels by itself whenever it ears his stupid voice.

Yeah, I sometimes make the mistake of watching the game on a French stream. Not that the English feeds are better, but at least it skips Renaud and a bunch of others. RDS and TVA have really lousy tastes.

 

[eklund the clown]

Yeah, I sometimes make the mistake of watching the game on a French stream. Not that the English feeds are better, but at least it skips Renaud and a bunch of others. RDS and TVA have really lousy tastes.

Ya i almost turned it to the french channel.Cuthbert and Simpson have there nose up the leafs asses.Thats all they talk about like the Habs are not even playing

 

[Captain Mountain]

This really rubs me the wrong on pretty much every level.

Its part cash grab, part media rehabilitation tour and part job application through fan sentiment/nostalgia.

Its kind of everything wrong on a macro-level with how a lot of people approach the Habs. Where the history and pleasing a certain segment of the fanbase is almost more important than winning.

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

The whole thing looks like a PR tour before Roy takes the GM job. And Molson could have easily set as a condition that Roy corrects any perceived problem with how he "broke up" with the team before that happens. Reuniting with Tremblay fits the bill.

Moreover, it is possible that Bergevin has known about this for a year. Many of his comments let me think that he was keeping the seat warm and no longer the active GM since last year. Bergevin would accept to do this so he can get another GM job.

Thus, maybe the negotiations with Molson are more about an amicable release package for the PR services provided during the last year.

Or maybe because he will get the job of President of the Habs...
Bergevin, President
Roy, GM
Tremblay, head coach

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Yup.

I would take anyone over MB, and I think Roy at least has a freaking spine and you can’t deny his passion/competitive edge. Still think we can do better though.

 

[JianYang]

I would take anyone over MB, and I think Roy at least has a freaking spine and you can’t deny his passion/competitive edge. Still think we can do better though.

That's a double edged sword with Patrick

 

[SOLR]

Or maybe because he will get the job of President of the Habs...
Bergevin, President
Roy, GM
Tremblay, head coach

Facepalm.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Or maybe because he will get the job of President of the Habs...
Bergevin, President
Roy, GM
Tremblay, head coach

I'll burn down the city myself to stop that from happening...

 

[SOLR]

Are you trying to convince me the guy who was there for 3 years, quit because no one listened to him is responsible for building the Avs and not the guy who made all the decisions and built the actual team for the last 8 years? Just want to make sure what position on the hill you’re dying on.

I never said that. Again you are trying to make another point. This is the only point of this entire conversation:

This is the argument I was responding to:
"After Roy left, the team went parabolic and hasn’t looked back. So outside of a couple of good coaching years, keeping Sakic as GM and losing Roy was the right decision."

There are basically 2 stupid claims in your phrase:
1) That you could predict what would have been the performance of the team with Roy still at the helm as coach. It's basic logic false. The good performance of the team after Roy isn't proof against him.
2) That you could discount the effect Roy had as a coach on the new core and their selection.
​

By Sakic own words he didn't make all the decisions when he started, as Patrick was not just the coach, he was the VP of Hockey Ops. I think Sakic has done and is doing a fantastic job, but this is one organization where there was a bit of a GM duality going on.

"quit because no one listened to him" <== now stop being dishonest, if you don't accept even Sakic's own words, then not one of your arguments is worth a cent (on this subject).

 

[Wats]

You keep moving the goalposts and changing your arguments, thanks for proving my point about their quality.

This is the argument I was responding to:
"After Roy left, the team went parabolic and hasn’t looked back. So outside of a couple of good coaching years, keeping Sakic as GM and losing Roy was the right decision."

There are basically 2 stupid claims in your phrase:
1) That you could predict what would have been the performance of the team with Roy still at the helm as coach. It's basic logic false. The good performance of the team after Roy isn't proof against him.
2) That you could discount the effect Roy had as a coach on the new core and their selection.

And then you speculate, again. "and literally quit because no one was listening to him" - False.

Patrick Roy resigns from Avalanche

"He was consulted on everything," Sakic said. "Obviously early on when I was getting comfortable in my role, I relied on him more. Now as we built up our staff, especially in season, we allowed Patrick to focus more on coaching. In the offseason we started working on free agents together.

Not being on the same page and not being listened to are two very different things.

And then you add nonsense like this: "responsible for all hockey-related personnel decisions for the past 8 years" - False.

Again, in reality, a team is more than 1 person.

So curious, how impactful do you think Roy was to the AVS current success compared to Sakic? To me it's 8/10 Sakic, 2/10 Roy maybe.

Lot of people believe he's a candidate for next GM position so how much credit he gets for AVS is relevant.

The fact Sakic was GM less time than Bergevin also hurts.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

And people were super excited about Bergevin over Gauthier.

Been there, done that.

it's almost like cycling through a limited talent pool is a bad idea

 

[sandviper]

I almost threw up my breakfast when i saw this.Please keep these 2 as far away as possible from anything to do with the Habs coaching,management.

Don’t talk like that about our future GM and president of hockey ops.

 

[SOLR]

So curious, how impactful do you think Roy was to the AVS current success compared to Sakic? To me it's 8/10 Sakic, 2/10 Roy maybe.

Lot of people believe he's a candidate for next GM position so how much credit he gets for AVS is relevant.

The fact Sakic was GM less time than Bergevin also hurts.

Truth is, I don't really know. I just don't think 0/10 or even 1/10 is realistic because most of the core or core decisions were from the Roy era. Of course, it's "dampening" every year. I think when someone claims it's all Sakic, I don't know, that's not even true according to Joe Sakic!

Probably at the low end 2/10 and at the high end 4/10. One thing that's hard to calculate here, is how much the Avs culture is based on Roy's emotional framework of being a player who faces his responsibilities while putting the team first (Duchene's case was all Roy, how long would have that last under Bednar?). McKinnon, Landeskog, seems to have completely adopted Roy's philosophy on performing.

 

[Mrb1p]

This really rubs me the wrong on pretty much every level.

Its part cash grab, part media rehabilitation tour and part job application through fan sentiment/nostalgia.

Its kind of everything wrong on a macro-level with how a lot of people approach the Habs. Where the history and pleasing a certain segment of the fanbase is almost more important than winning.

Almost ?

 

[SOLR]

This really rubs me the wrong on pretty much every level.

Its part cash grab, part media rehabilitation tour and part job application through fan sentiment/nostalgia.

Its kind of everything wrong on a macro-level with how a lot of people approach the Habs. Where the history and pleasing a certain segment of the fanbase is almost more important than winning.

And Bell publishing this, pretty much confirms a bit of a link with the habs imo + from Chantal Machabée: Roy et Tremblay : l'histoire d'une réconciliation

 

[ahmedou]

 

[cphabs]

Are you trying to convince me the guy who was there for 3 years, quit because no one listened to him is responsible for building the Avs and not the guy who made all the decisions and built the actual team for the last 8 years? Just want to make sure what position on the hill you’re dying on.

The hill that has a 10m goalie that needs a month off to play “above” the average. Also, Roy stood up to the French bullshit...

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Sterling Archer]

The hill that has a 10m goalie that needs a month off to play “above” the average. Also, Roy stood up to the French bullshit...

Holy what the hell does this have to do with anything, Batman! was that? Lol.

Also, my dog has 3 testicles. I thought that was also relevant given your comment.

 

[Puck Luck Run Amok]

Are you trying to convince me the guy who was there for 3 years, quit because no one listened to him is responsible for building the Avs and not the guy who made all the decisions and built the actual team for the last 8 years? Just want to make sure what position on the hill you’re dying on.

Same people who thought MBs one year as an admin makes him responsible for Chicago winning

 

[FloJack]

Roy looks like someone who want to take Bergevin's job.

And Tremblay now looks like the skeleton of Vincent Damphousse.