Reunited and it feels so good

[OldCraig71]

I would take Youppi over Bergevin...

You stole that from me lol.

 

[SOLR]

I don’t know why you’re making personal jabs at my life experience which I can assure you, is quite extensive. You’ve also not shown in any way what Roy contributed to a team that was built by Sakic. So I’m not sure where you’re going with these posts but hopefully it’ll be more constructive and insightful than Roy is awesome and you’re a dumb dumb.

I was talking about the argument, I don't know you. "Build by Sakic": is revisionist in the worst way possible, this is what I keep talking about. Think about the last 8 years of the avalanche and tell me this team was build by Sakic alone.

When a team goes from the cave to number 1, it's never the result of 1 thing or 1 person. Moreover, success does not arrive suddenly, its brews under the surface and emerges suddenly. When Roy left (not fired), the team was in a much better talent and culture situation than when he arrived.

Not saying he was perfect, but to say the subtraction of Roy means that he was the problem is a scenario that you can not run twice, it's pure speculation. It's a basic argumentative mistake, you can not, ever, presume of the performance of a team with or without a team member. Reality and life exist only once.

Sakic tried to keep Roy, that's part of the story...

 

[Karma Police]

Why do I feel this PR stunt is because Patrick Roy is our next GM?

 

[OldCraig71]

Why do I feel this PR stunt is because Patrick Roy is our next GM?

Because someone already said it 20 posts ago? jk

 

[Karma Police]

Because someone already said it 20 posts ago? jk

haha I didn't check the posts before but yeah I figured if I thought about it someone probably said it

 

[Saundies]

Bring back Saint Patrick and break the curse.

Maximum chaos.

 

[Karma Police]

I love Roy swearing in his TVA interview and saying ''j'aurais du fermer ma yeule''

 

[Sterling Archer]

I was talking about the argument, I don't know you. "Build by Sakic": is revisionist in the worst way possible, this is what I keep talking about. Think about the last 8 years of the avalanche and tell me this team was build by Sakic alone.

When a team goes from the cave to number 1, it's never the result of 1 thing or 1 person. Moreover, success does not arrive suddenly, its brews under the surface and emerges suddenly. When Roy left (not fired), the team was in a much better talent and culture situation than when he arrived.

Not saying he was perfect, but to say the subtraction of Roy means that he was the problem is a scenario that you can not run twice, it's pure speculation. It's a basic argumentative mistake, you can not, ever, presume of the performance of a team with or without a team member. Reality and life exist only once.

Sakic tried to keep Roy, that's part of the story...

I never said Roy didn’t help the Avs at all. I said he wasn’t the reason for it. Sakic as the GM has played a far larger role in where the Avs are now as opposed to Roy who hasn’t been with the organization for nearly 5 years. That’s long enough a time period to say his influence on the current club is menial at best. So I think it’s a safe assumption to say you’re putting way too much importance on Roy’s influence on the current Avs and not nearly enough on Sakic who is arguably one of the best GMs in the game today and has been for some time.

 

[Crapadiens]

They can hire both of them as long as Tremblay is made the janitor or one of the ice cleaner boys

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

This is bret hart and Shawn michaels all over again.

Ahhh I found that weird that they would "bury the hatchet" out of the blue after so long. Like... who cares at this point when both are pretty much out of sight?

...pity Saint Patrick didn't bury the hatchet into Tremblay's noggin'...much more entertaining...another Montreal Screw Job coming??...

 

[Treb]

I never said Roy didn’t help the Avs at all. I said he wasn’t the reason for it. Sakic as the GM has played a far larger role in where the Avs are now as opposed to Roy who hasn’t been with the organization for nearly 5 years. That’s long enough a time period to say his influence on the current club is menial at best. So I think it’s a safe assumption to say you’re putting way too much importance on Roy’s influence on the current Avs and not nearly enough on Sakic who is arguably one of the best GMs in the game today and has been for some time.

To add to this:
Players left from the Roy era: Erik Johnson, Landeskog, Mackinnon, Rantanen, Soderberg (who was acquired back at the TDL).

Only 5 of them, but 4 are the leadership group. Roy's impact might still be felt, it has greatly lessened over the year.

 

[Sterling Archer]

To add to this:
Players left from the Roy era: Erik Johnson, Landeskog, Mackinnon, Rantanen, Soderberg (who was acquired back at the TDL).

Only 5 of them, but 4 are the leadership group. Roy's impact might still be felt, it has greatly lessened over the year.

Thanks for bringing this up. I was going to mention it but didn’t have time to look up the number of players left so I left it out.

 

[Habsfunk]

Why do I feel this PR stunt is because Patrick Roy is our next GM?

Or is it just a really good PR campaign for Uber Eats?

 

[SOLR]

I never said Roy didn’t help the Avs at all. I said he wasn’t the reason for it. Sakic as the GM has played a far larger role in where the Avs are now as opposed to Roy who hasn’t been with the organization for nearly 5 years. That’s long enough a time period to say his influence on the current club is menial at best. So I think it’s a safe assumption to say you’re putting way too much importance on Roy’s influence on the current Avs and not nearly enough on Sakic who is arguably one of the best GMs in the game today and has been for some time.

No, it's not a safe assumption at all.

1) Roy created the accountability structure that led to the Duchene crew being considered a "forced trade" by Sakic (McKinnon and co still talk about Roy's influence). This trade has had a tremendous impact on today's Avs. Sakic has a lot of credit for being patient with it.
2) Many of the current leaders, Roy had a hand in selecting at the draft (McKinnon, Rantanen)

You can't gloss on the whole core composition and attitude and tell us Roy has had no influence.

 

[Sterling Archer]

No, it's not a safe assumption at all.

1) Roy created the accountability structure that led to the Duchene crew being considered a "forced trade" by Sakic (McKinnon and co still talk about Roy's influence). This trade has had a tremendous impact on today's Avs. Sakic has a lot of credit for being patient with it.
2) Many of the current leaders, Roy had a hand in selecting at the draft (McKinnon, Rantanen)

You can't gloss on the whole core composition and attitude and tell us Roy has had no influence.

Hmmm. Is it reasonable to think that the man who’s been responsible for all hockey related personnel decisions for the past 8 years (May 10, 2013, the Avalanche promoted Sakic to Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations. In this expanded role, Sakic has the final say on all matters regarding hockey personnel.[83] “) is responsible for their success over the coach who was there for 3 years and literally quit because no one was listening to him, (On August 11, 2016, Roy, citing a lack of input in personnel decisions, stepped down as the head coach and vice-president of hockey operations for the Avalanche, and was subsequently replaced by Jared Bednar.[44])?

I think, yes.

 

[yianik]

Roy and Tremblay ? Shocked. It's like when the Iron Curtain disintegrated, except more surprising.

 

[Canadienna]

I have no freaking clue what it takes to be a good GM, or rather, what qualities indicate someone WILL be a good GM in the NHL.

So I don't know if Roy has it, but I do love his personality, and obviously he's a legend. I kinda hope he gets the job.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

This is at best a ridiculous analysis.

Par for the course for SA.

Get this, he's been defending Garbagevin for years, yet he's super critical of Roy as a supposed GM, who wasn't even GM.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Is Colorado a better team now or when Roy was there? Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Straight forward? The team was in rebuild mode and he wasn't GM.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

I have no freaking clue what it takes to be a good GM, or rather, what qualities indicate someone WILL be a good GM in the NHL.

So I don't know if Roy has it, but I do love his personality, and obviously he's a legend. I kinda hope he gets the job.

Geoff Molson has crashed our thread

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Geoff Molson has crashed our thread

 

[Canadienna]

Geoff Molson has crashed our thread

Haha I may not know what makes a good GM, but after 9 years at least I can tell a bad GM. Let's see Molson do that!

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Bring back Saint Patrick and break the curse.

Maximum chaos.

This.

 

[rickthegoon]

Having watched Renaud talk for 15+ years

You sir, are a gluton for punishment
I think my tv now has learned to change channels by itself whenever it ears his stupid voice.

 

[SOLR]

Hmmm. Is it reasonable to think that the man who’s been responsible for all hockey related personnel decisions for the past 8 years (May 10, 2013, the Avalanche promoted Sakic to Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations. In this expanded role, Sakic has the final say on all matters regarding hockey personnel.[83] “) is responsible for their success over the coach who was there for 3 years and literally quit because no one was listening to him, (On August 11, 2016, Roy, citing a lack of input in personnel decisions, stepped down as the head coach and vice-president of hockey operations for the Avalanche, and was subsequently replaced by Jared Bednar.[44])?

I think, yes.

You keep moving the goalposts and changing your arguments, thanks for proving my point about their quality.

This is the argument I was responding to:
"After Roy left, the team went parabolic and hasn’t looked back. So outside of a couple of good coaching years, keeping Sakic as GM and losing Roy was the right decision."

There are basically 2 stupid claims in your phrase:
1) That you could predict what would have been the performance of the team with Roy still at the helm as coach. It's basic logic false. The good performance of the team after Roy isn't proof against him.
2) That you could discount the effect Roy had as a coach on the new core and their selection.

And then you speculate, again. "and literally quit because no one was listening to him" - False.

Patrick Roy resigns from Avalanche

"He was consulted on everything," Sakic said. "Obviously early on when I was getting comfortable in my role, I relied on him more. Now as we built up our staff, especially in season, we allowed Patrick to focus more on coaching. In the offseason we started working on free agents together.

Not being on the same page and not being listened to are two very different things.

And then you add nonsense like this: "responsible for all hockey-related personnel decisions for the past 8 years" - False.

Again, in reality, a team is more than 1 person.