Post-Game Talk: Requiem for the 2023 NHL Draft

[JT3]

To be fair, it could be argued that the first team passing on Michkov had a slam dunk option and shouldn’t be counted.

Teams 2-4 had top line ceiling player that several drafting services had pegged to go in the top 4 slots so they had very good motivation to pass.

If the Habs had the option of Carlsson-Fantilli-Smith, they too would have picked one of them.

Montreal and Arizona were the only two teams that passed on Michkov. In Arizona’s case, they sensed that the player had zero interest in them so they pivoted to Reinbacher who they viewed some 27 times but the Habs did their thing.

If Michkov really is what people think he is then I think SJ at least should be considered to have 'passed' on him as well, but maybe that has more to do with my opinion of Smith than anything. Smith is supremely skilled but I don't know if he's a C in the long run, so for me I would be looking at Smith/Michkov both as high skill offensive wingers. But I agree with the top 3 picks opting for the Centers at least. I just have a hard time reconciling a slam dunk superstar, or even a 'generational' player like some say, falling to 7. Outside of development skyrocketing post draft, has that ever happened?

 

[Adam Michaels]

People need to stop spouting this.

The risk is less, sure. But there is no such thing as a floor of top 4.

KK had a floor of 2C, as did Lias Andersson and Tyson Jost. I'm sure Juolevi, Reinhart, Gudbranson, Bogosian, Fleury were seen as D with a floor of top 4 as well.

But the idea that there's any sort of safety when it comes to drafting 18 year olds needs to go out the window.

Yea, no. If people, like myself, see his floor as 2nd pair D and his ceiling as the #1D on the team, then we will share those views. If he's a 3rd pair D, then it's an underachievement.

 

[Runner77]

If Michkov really is what people think he is then I think SJ at least should be considered to have 'passed' on him as well, but maybe that has more to do with my opinion of Smith than anything. Smith is supremely skilled but I don't know if he's a C in the long run, so for me I would be looking at Smith/Michkov both as high skill offensive wingers. But I agree with the top 3 picks opting for the Centers at least. I just have a hard time reconciling a slam dunk superstar, or even a 'generational' player like some say, falling to 7. Outside of development skyrocketing post draft, has that ever happened?

There were other overwhelming perceived or actual negative factors that went into the equation so the superstar or elite offence tab was tainted by them. In a vacuum, had the player come from the CHL, for instance, his talent would have probably ranked him higher, just like other players of his ilk in past drafts.

 

[JT3]

There were other overwhelming perceived or actual negative factors that went into the equation so the superstar or elite offence tab was tainted by them. In a vacuum, had the player come from the CHL, for instance, his talent would have probably ranked him higher, just like other players of his ilk in past drafts.

I would argue the same for Reinbacher. I think part of the backlash comes from the fact that he was totally unknown prior to this season, playing in a league most North Americans don't know much about or pay any attention to, and slowly rose up the rankings. If he's in the CHL he's probably looked at more positively as well.

 

[WeThreeKings]

What we need to talk about is how the journalists fumbled the f***ing ball.

Didn't ask questions about any of the prospects specifically, we don't know what they think or how they identified half the players they drafted.

Just the most fumbled draft coverage of all time.

 

[donghabs98]

Might be time to go back to the days where NHL drafts were closed to the public lol.

It's getting more and more toxic every year.

I do wonder if the reactions we are seeing is just a reflection on where society is at today. I mean, remember all the hate Team Canada got in 2019 for finishing low at the World Juniors? People really lose perspective when it comes to sports.

 

[417]

I do wonder if the reactions we are seeing is just a reflection on where society is at today. I mean, remember all the hate Team Canada got in 2019 for finishing low at the World Juniors? People really lose perspective when it comes to sports.

I think it's a function of how accessible information is these days...what we used to find out during the draft, we now know months in advance.

I mean, i'm already seeing scouting reports for 2024 class.

Access to information is great, but the problem is it turns everyone into an expert/critic...and don't get me wrong, i'm not saying our opinions are worthless here as fan. I'm certainly no prospect expert but there are some posters who I genuinely go read whenever I want info on a certain prospect.

But we've crossed over into a dark/disturbed corner of fandom IMO...but hey, to each his own!

 

[Runner77]

I would argue the same for Reinbacher. I think part of the backlash comes from the fact that he was totally unknown prior to this season, playing in a league most North Americans don't know much about or pay any attention to, and slowly rose up the rankings. If he's in the CHL he's probably looked at more positively as well.

Not the same at all. Reinbacher played in a league from a non-war torn country where unlimited live viewings were open to NHL team types and anyone else for that matter. Access to the player once there, was not restricted.

Arizona made 27 trips to watch him play. No one had that type of access to Michkov except possibly Nashville who somehow had a full time scout within Russia. The insiders and scouts from NHL teams knew who Orville was and did not need ranking services to assist them in their evaluations.

I don’t believe it would have made much of a difference had Reinbacher come from the CHL. The top 4 centers in a forward draft would likely have prevailed as it’s generally considered a more valued position, assuming of course that they score highly on other grid elements.

It is what it is, it doesn’t really matter, Orville is our guy.

 

[JT3]

Not the same at all. Reinbacher played in a league from a non-war torn country where unlimited live viewings were open to NHL team types and anyone else for that matter. Access to the player once there, was not restricted.

Arizona made 27 trips to watch him play. No one had that type of access to Michkov except possibly Nashville who somehow had a full time scout within Russia. The insiders and scouts from NHL teams knew who Orville was and did not need ranking services to assist them in their evaluations.

I don’t believe it would have made much of a difference had Reinbacher come from the CHL. The top 4 centers in a forward draft would likely have prevailed as it’s generally considered a more valued position, assuming of course that they score highly on other grid elements.

It is what it is, it doesn’t really matter, Orville is our guy.

I see what you mean. Most of the rankings we are fed though are from public scouting agencies, and I'd be curious to know how many of them had multiple live viewings of Reinbacher. He may be in a more visible league than the KHL but it's still a long trip for NA scouts and I wonder if the public agencies have the budget for multiple trips like that, although maybe some of them have a central Euro scout that could take care of it. It seems to be somewhat clear though that NHL front offices valued him higher than most public lists did.

It is entirely possible though that having Michkov in NA and the extra visibility could have exposed some negative sides of his game as well, so it works both ways too. Maybe he does prove to be near or on par with Bedard, or maybe he shows to be a high end offensive guy that has a lot of other issues as well. Hard to say.

 

[HabbyGuy]

What we need to talk about is how the journalists fumbled the f***ing ball.

Didn't ask questions about any of the prospects specifically, we don't know what they think or how they identified half the players they drafted.

Just the most fumbled draft coverage of all time.

I've been looking for these answers for weeks. It's a disappointment to say the least in that regard.

Unfortunately, it seems, like it's just going to be swept under the rug.

The bad taste in many's mouths will be there awhile methinks.

 

[Runner77]

I see what you mean. Most of the rankings we are fed though are from public scouting agencies, and I'd be curious to know how many of them had multiple live viewings of Reinbacher. He may be in a more visible league than the KHL but it's still a long trip for NA scouts and I wonder if the public agencies have the budget for multiple trips like that, although maybe some of them have a central Euro scout that could take care of it. It seems to be somewhat clear though that NHL front offices valued him higher than most public lists did.

It is entirely possible though that having Michkov in NA and the extra visibility could have exposed some negative sides of his game as well, so it works both ways too. Maybe he does prove to be near or on par with Bedard, or maybe he shows to be a high end offensive guy that has a lot of other issues as well. Hard to say.

All of these unfinished products carry risk. However, Michkov’s high end offensive talent is such a rare attribute that it likely would have overshadowed the other deficiencies in his game. Scoring is universally recognized as the toughest thing to do in hockey. Most of the other aspects can be taught or improved upon.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

To be fair, it could be argued that the first team passing on Michkov had a slam dunk option and shouldn’t be counted.

Teams 2-4 had top line ceiling player that several drafting services had pegged to go in the top 4 slots so they had very good motivation to pass.

If the Habs had the option of Carlsson-Fantilli-Smith, they too would have picked one of them.

Montreal and Arizona were the only two teams that passed on Michkov. In Arizona’s case, they sensed that the player had zero interest in them so they pivoted to Reinbacher who they viewed some 27 times but the Habs did their thing.

Agreed. And this pick will be a litmus test for the organization because apparently the scouts unanimously agreed on the selection. If Reinbacher only becomes a #4 d then there is cause for worry because at least one of Michkov, Leonard or Benson will be better that.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

What we need to talk about is how the journalists fumbled the f***ing ball.

Didn't ask questions about any of the prospects specifically, we don't know what they think or how they identified half the players they drafted.

Just the most fumbled draft coverage of all time.

It was a horrifically bad draft production as expected when nhl.com is involved and to some extent sportsnet. Only tsn can do an adequate show. Hughes said Reinbacher was a unanimous choice at the table but I presume he didn't explain why and what they see his ceiling as.

 

[morhilane]

What we need to talk about is how the journalists fumbled the f***ing ball.

Didn't ask questions about any of the prospects specifically, we don't know what they think or how they identified half the players they drafted.

Just the most fumbled draft coverage of all time.

The combine and draft makes me think the journalists didn't care that much about prospects unless there was some controversy associated or they are well known.

Habs basically went with nobodies, they had no idea what to ask in that case. I think Fowler might have been more known than Reinbacher too.

 

[Adam Michaels]

What we need to talk about is how the journalists fumbled the f***ing ball.

Didn't ask questions about any of the prospects specifically, we don't know what they think or how they identified half the players they drafted.

Just the most fumbled draft coverage of all time.

At the beginning of the Lapointe/Bobrov presser, the first journalist to ask a question asked them if they can go one by one regarding each pick.

Lapointe said that it's better if they ask them questions individually and they answer them rather than going through each pick.

I'm like you, I wish they did go pick-by-pick. I think they did that last year.

I also want to say that I love listening to Bobrov. You can agree or disagree on his selections, he at least has a rationale behind it and he articulates it real well.

 

[Kennerback]

At the beginning of the Lapointe/Bobrov presser, the first journalist to ask a question asked them if they can go one by one regarding each pick.

Lapointe said that it's better if they ask them questions individually and they answer them rather than going through each pick.

I'm like you, I wish they did go pick-by-pick. I think they did that last year.

I also want to say that I love listening to Bobrov. You can agree or disagree on his selections, he at least has a rationale behind it and he articulates it real well.

I thought the journalists looked awkward and threw softballs because the panel looked out of depth.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Posted this on the prospect board after reading generational for the 50th time since the draft with respect to michkov.

I tried to round up the best, smaller wingers from the past 30 years.

Do you regard any on this list as generational?

What kind of career would you consider his ceiling and floor?

Kane
Panarin
Kaprizov
St Louis
Fleury
Kucherov
Bure
Kariya

 

[Kennerback]

Posted this on the prospect board after reading generational for the 50th time since the draft with respect to michkov.

I tried to round up the best, smaller wingers from the past 30 years.

Do you regard any on this list as generational?

What kind of career would you consider his ceiling and floor?

Kane
Panarin
Kaprizov
St Louis
Fleury
Kucherov
Bure
Kariya

I think people use the term too loosely to mean exceptional or elite. I would consider none of those generational. I would have McDavid and Crosby. Maybe a case could be made for Ovy.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I think people use the term too loosely to mean exceptional or elite. I would consider none of those generational. I would have McDavid and Crosby. Maybe a case could be made for Ovy.

I can deal with superstar. All those players on that list are superstars. There are probably 20ish superstars in the league on any given year.

 

[No More Subban]

Blackhawks loading up with character vets after drafting elite talent. It's really that simple yet Q-tip couldn't figure it out.

thats unfair..lol. they just got bedard. would you be saying the same thing if they had carlsson or fantili?

 

[Gravity]

thats unfair..lol. they just got bedard. would you be saying the same thing if they had carlsson or fantili?

Yes. They're both elite. They also drafted Moore to be a 2C and Gajan to be a 1/2G.

 

[HabsCowboysOwn]

I'll keep thinking that passing on Michkov was a huge mistake until proven otherwise and my opinion of this management group will remain tainted for the foreseeable future but on the other hand, I wish nothing but the best for Reinbacher and I sincerely hope he'll end up being a key player for this team.

The potential all-around #1D a lot of people here see in him.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Yes. They're both elite. They also drafted Moore to be a 2C and Gajan to be a 1/2G.

And what does that have to do with anything? Hughes would have done the same thing if MB had left with anything to trade. Instead he was left with garbage and vastly overpaid players. And they have already moved the good players that weren't overpaid.

 

[Meth Flanders]

I rewatched a clip of DR walking up to the stage and its strange hes shaking his head no and doesn't look pleased to even be drafted by the Habs.

He's being questioned live as he is walking to the stage. His head is shaking while he is saying 'no' to a question.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

People need to stop spouting this.

The risk is less, sure. But there is no such thing as a floor of top 4.

KK had a floor of 2C, as did Lias Andersson and Tyson Jost. I'm sure Juolevi, Reinhart, Gudbranson, Bogosian, Fleury were seen as D with a floor of top 4 as well.

But the idea that there's any sort of safety when it comes to drafting 18 year olds needs to go out the window.

Well said.

Players might have more projectable games based on historical cases but floors only seem valid once we have enough NHL games played to determine such.

It's all speculation at this point.