Rumor: Report: Red Wings, Maple Leafs expected to revisit Phaneuf trade during offseason
- Thread starter Flowah
- Start date
If the Wings can get the leafs to take Weiss and retain some salary, the. You're talking Phaneuf on the same salary structure as Ericsson, you have to make that deal.
Run the Jewels
Make Detroit Great Again
I largely agree with this. The sticking point was supposedly that they wanted Smith and we wanted them to retain some of Phaneuf's salary. I can't see them also taking Kindl but you can probably work out a deal around Phaneuf, Weiss and Smith with them taking on about $2 million or so of Phaneuf's salary.
I don't love the deal but at least it finally gets Holland to address the cluster **** he has created on defense.
If I'm not mistaken the Leafs wanted Mantha and that's why Holland stepped away from the table which is a great call imo.
A lot of leafs fans were saying that in order to have that salary retained it would take a top prospect to do so, so TML may bite if we dumped Weiss and smith and some lower-tier prospect but took on the full cap hit.
Ideally Holland only goes after Phaneuf again if he strikes out in free agency this year too.
Riddarn
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Run the Jewels
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Don't forget about his mediocre point production despite usually playing on a team that has been great at generating points at even strength.
Run the Jewels
Make Detroit Great Again
I didn't pay super close attention so I won't belabor the point. I only recall seeing a Hockey News or TSN type article (ie, a generally reliable source) suggesting they wanted Smith and we wanted them to eat some salary. I don't like Phaneuf enough to lobby for the deal, but I also have seen how Holland keeps guys around despite their complete lack of usefulness. See: Jakub Kindl. If we can move Smith in the deal in order to get a Phaneuf at a reasonably salary (say $5 million or thereabouts) then that helps clear the way for a top prospect to make the move to the big club since Kindl is obviously useless and Smith will have been cleared out. If the Wings like Zidlicky he's just about guaranteed to get a deal. So at a bare minimum you could have Zidlicky as your RHD with Marchenko fighting for a spot and both Jensen and Sproul having a shot at PT once Quincey comes off the books in 2015-16.
Babcock has been asking for RHD for about 10 years now, so if he decides to stay around he could have plenty of them in a couple years. In order for that to happen though we must first get Holland to get rid of guys who still aren't all that great NHL'ers despite having been over-ripened.
I remember Smith being mentioned, but I also remember Toronto supposedly wanting a top prospect, too. What I recall hearing is that Toronto was looking to make a hockey trade where they give up the better player but get nice futures, while Detroit was looking at more of a salary move where we give them a cheaper, shorter term guy and get them out from under the longer, heavier deal of Phaneuf's.
Cyborg Yzerberg
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The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
It has also been said it was a starting point that they never fully believed would be met. That part is important to remember, they asked because they felt they had to, not because it was an entrenched position in terms of the return.
Frk It
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I wonder if it was because we said no to Mantha, or because they said no to taking salary back.
Wonder which was a bigger deal.
I think they both wanted to do this but couldn't find a way. Wouldn't be surprised at all to see this happen in the summer.
This is the kind of trade Holland always seems to be making, which pretty much amounts to the Wings trade their cast-offs for another teams cast-offs.
Paneuf is not an elite defenseman, and the Wings need an elite defenseman, not Paneuf.
By contrast, consider Dave Dombrowski's approach. He needed a stud pitcher, so he traded for David Price, 2-time Cy Young winner. Boom!
Paneuf is not an elite defenseman, and the Wings need an elite defenseman, not Paneuf.
By contrast, consider Dave Dombrowski's approach. He needed a stud pitcher, so he traded for David Price, 2-time Cy Young winner. Boom!
Hey, it's negotiations. You will never know if a team will trade you a player you want unless you ask. Then when the answer is no, you counter with a fall back demand.
The Wings should not trade Mantha, but the Wings have other trade chips they can use.
Tigers also have something like $170m payroll. If the Wings could spend freely and be one of the top5 spending clubs in the league, Holland might make some more deals, too.
theYman
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Yup, plus Holland has played a big part in four cups since the Tigers last won the World Series. I mean Dombrowski is very good at his job, he did land the big one with the Marlins and is responsible for the bulk of their second series. But if you want to hold him up as the ideal in terms of Detroit management you're mistaken in my opinion. He has had free reign for the most part salary wise and what has he done. I mean we talk about this D-core until we are blue in the face and it doesn't approach the Tigers bullpen situation that has cost them repeated shots at a title.
Find a much better example to criticize Holland with than a guy with an endless bank account that has seen his attempts foiled continuously by the same issues over and over.
Winning in pro sports is harder than most give it credit for. I like both those guys a great deal, Ilitch can pick them, the bottom-line is their job is tough and it is hard to just say I want this and it will happen. Of the two Dombrowski operates in an easier sport to do it with. He gets Price because in his sport Price is going to be made available for financial reasons. In Holland's sport Weber is matched and most guys sign long-term with their existing franchise.
Ryan Suter got to spend more time with his late father, his wife is happy as is he by virtually every accounts. That decision though likely cost us a cup recently and I think cost him several in the bigger picture. In a salary cap free world we likely change that decision... That is life though, they are both great management people for their sports, we are lucky to have both, one would argue when he had the ability to run his team like Dombrowski does, Holland was far more successful than Dombrowski has approached. Despite the constraints he now has, he still remains at the top of his profession and we are building towards something very good, but there is a more methodical nature to it than what is present in some of the other major sports in my opinion.
Cyborg Yzerberg
Registered User
PelagicJoe
Registered User
I am inclined to agree with you, despite some of the negative reviews Dion gets.
Phaneuf is big, nasty physical, and has a big shot. He's better than pretty much our whole D except Kronwall.
Not wanting a physical guy with a booming shot. Makes sense. Our defense is Kleenex soft.
Get him. Keep Marchenko. Lightyears better with just those two things.
Not wanting a physical guy with a booming shot. Makes sense. Our defense is Kleenex soft.
Get him. Keep Marchenko. Lightyears better with just those two things.
You forget 2 very important things here.
Phaneuf is not great defensively.
Phaneuf is a bad locker room guy.
I think both Kronwall and Phaneuf need a steady defensive minded partners. Zidlicky too, if he is kept next season.
TheOctopusKid
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I'm not concerned about Phaneuf being added to this squad in the least with salary retention. He is, without a doubt, a Top 60 Defensemen in this league. You could not name 60 other defensemen in this league that are better than he is (I would say you would be hard pressed to name 30). Now you could make the argument that there are better valued defensemen at lower cost, but ignoring salary and focusing on talent alone, he is a top pairing D-Men.
As for being a poor locker room guy, Dion has been the Captain or Alternate Captain on every single team he has played on - from Juniors. As we all know, Captaincy in hockey means a ton unlike other sports where it's just given to the best player. He wouldn't be consistency named a leader on all of these teams (from juniors, to international play, to the Flames, and the Leafs) if those in the room didn't respect him.
Outside of that, do you honestly think that Babcock, Zetterberg, Kronwall, or Datsyuk would allow him to be a distraction? Do you think he would want to be a distraction?
I think Phaneuf has the most intense and hyper critical position in all of the NHL as the Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs. The blame begins and ends with him. It's like being the QB of the Cowboys, or the star player of the NY Knicks (Or us and goalies). Some positions just are going to be unfairly attributed with the blame and why so many players fall in those kinds of situations. Honestly, I think Phaneuf coming to a smaller market like Detroit would allow him to not worry about all of the public politics and focus just on hockey.
jaster
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"Phaneuf would instantly be our 2nd best defenseman."
Not for my money.
Phaneuf's advantage in offense is less than DeKeyser's advantage in defense. Plus, DeKeyser has the advantage in intangibles (i.e. better chemistry, younger).
If you can only have one of Phaneuf or DeKeyser for the rest of this season/playoffs, I take DeKeyser.
Phaneuf is one of the most over-rated "star" defensemen in the league.
Not for my money.
Phaneuf's advantage in offense is less than DeKeyser's advantage in defense. Plus, DeKeyser has the advantage in intangibles (i.e. better chemistry, younger).
If you can only have one of Phaneuf or DeKeyser for the rest of this season/playoffs, I take DeKeyser.
Phaneuf is one of the most over-rated "star" defensemen in the league.
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