Rumor: Report: Red Wings, Maple Leafs expected to revisit Phaneuf trade during offseason

[jaster]

Overrated? All I see or read is him getting **** on....

I didn't mean over-rated on this forum in recent weeks. I mean over-rated in general, over time, in the hockey world at large.

 

[Heaton]

"Phaneuf would instantly be our 2nd best defenseman."

Not for my money.

Phaneuf's advantage in offense is less than DeKeyser's advantage in defense. Plus, DeKeyser has the advantage in intangibles (i.e. better chemistry, younger).

If you can only have one of Phaneuf or DeKeyser for the rest of this season/playoffs, I take DeKeyser.

Phaneuf is one of the most over-rated "star" defensemen in the league.

Because he plays on Toronto. He was a stud in Calgary, he didn't forget how to play defense in Toronto. I think in an environment like Detroit he would easily lose the 'overrated' tab, just like Bouwmeester lost it in St. Louis.

 

[jaster]

Because he plays on Toronto. He was a stud in Calgary, he didn't forget how to play defense in Toronto. I think in an environment like Detroit he would easily lose the 'overrated' tab, just like Bouwmeester lost it in St. Louis.

Perhaps. If that happened, though, I think it would be less about the city he's in and more because Detroit would use him appropriately, playing 2nd pair for 20 minutes a night, instead of 1st pair for 23 minutes.

 

[Heaton]

Perhaps. If that happened, though, I think it would be less about the city he's in and more because Detroit would use him appropriately, playing 2nd pair for 20 minutes a night, instead of 1st pair for 23 minutes.

Definitely. It's no coincidence that people tend to play better when they leave.

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

If we get rid of Weiss, Kindl, and Smith (2 out of 3) for Phaneuf, I say go for it. AND go after Green.

What, then, happens with XO and Marchenko?

 

[Winger98]

What, then, happens with XO and Marchenko?

What's happening with them now? Even if no one is signed or traded for this summer, it's very possible (likely?) that we'll start next season with the same group we started this year with and whoever can be waived, finding themselves in GR again.

 

[drw02]

Good to see everyone wants to just treat Smith as a throw in to get DP...even though Smitty has easily been our most consistent defensemen the past couple months. Completely ignore Kronwall's inconsistencies, Dekeyser turning into a turnover machine, Ericsson just flat out terrible in every aspect. It's so true that once you have a reputation it's almost impossible to change it in peoples minds. Honestly feel like I'm not even watching the same team as most of y'all.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

I didn't mean over-rated on this forum in recent weeks. I mean over-rated in general, over time, in the hockey world at large.

Oh I agree, he has been over-rated over the years, he most certainly is not the elite #1 D he was hoped and touted to be. On his game though he is still a top-30, maybe even top-20 d-man.

At the very least he would be a great #2, the fact that he has been over-rated in the past does not diminish that fact.

 

[Frk It]

Good to see everyone wants to just treat Smith as a throw in to get DP...even though Smitty has easily been our most consistent defensemen the past couple months. Completely ignore Kronwall's inconsistencies, Dekeyser turning into a turnover machine, Ericsson just flat out terrible in every aspect. It's so true that once you have a reputation it's almost impossible to change it in peoples minds. Honestly feel like I'm not even watching the same team as most of y'all.

Most consistent defenseman? What's your knock on Quincey?

I agree Kronwall has been inconsistent, but I don't think that equates to Smith being most consistent.

 

[redwingsphan]

Yup, plus Holland has played a big part in four cups since the Tigers last won the World Series. I mean Dombrowski is very good at his job, he did land the big one with the Marlins and is responsible for the bulk of their second series. But if you want to hold him up as the ideal in terms of Detroit management you're mistaken in my opinion. He has had free reign for the most part salary wise and what has he done. I mean we talk about this D-core until we are blue in the face and it doesn't approach the Tigers bullpen situation that has cost them repeated shots at a title.

Find a much better example to criticize Holland with than a guy with an endless bank account that has seen his attempts foiled continuously by the same issues over and over.

Winning in pro sports is harder than most give it credit for. I like both those guys a great deal, Ilitch can pick them, the bottom-line is their job is tough and it is hard to just say I want this and it will happen. Of the two Dombrowski operates in an easier sport to do it with. He gets Price because in his sport Price is going to be made available for financial reasons. In Holland's sport Weber is matched and most guys sign long-term with their existing franchise.

Ryan Suter got to spend more time with his late father, his wife is happy as is he by virtually every accounts. That decision though likely cost us a cup recently and I think cost him several in the bigger picture. In a salary cap free world we likely change that decision... That is life though, they are both great management people for their sports, we are lucky to have both, one would argue when he had the ability to run his team like Dombrowski does, Holland was far more successful than Dombrowski has approached. Despite the constraints he now has, he still remains at the top of his profession and we are building towards something very good, but there is a more methodical nature to it than what is present in some of the other major sports in my opinion.

This all the way. DD has done a very good job keeping the Tigs near the top, but the pen still hasn't been addressed. And if you think the wings have fallen off the last few years, then hold on for what's coming for the Tigers. They are going to be the worst team in baseball in 6 or 7 years.

 

[DatsDeking]

Would TML do

Ericsson, Weiss, & Sproul for Phaneuf?

 

[detredWINgs]

Hopefully this plan is contingent on striking out on Green...

 

[Heaton]

Hopefully this plan is contingent on striking out on Green...

Don't think it would happen at the draft?

 

[Electric Eric]

Hopefully this plan is contingent on striking out on Green...

Yeah this screams draft deal and not after. I don't think Detroit is making plans for Green. Just a gut feeling, plus we've heard nothing from the cheerleaders.

 

[irishock]

So based on the eye test Phanuef sucks, elementary stats say Phanuef sucks, advanced stats say Phanuef sucks, then why the hell is Kenny still wanting to take his ass? Get a real top 4 Dman for chrissake

 

[14ari13]

So based on the eye test Phanuef sucks, elementary stats say Phanuef sucks, advanced stats say Phanuef sucks, then why the hell is Kenny still wanting to take his ass? Get a real top 4 Dman for chrissake

Could he turn his game around in Detroit or somewhere else?

 

[Claypool]

Could he turn his game around in Detroit or somewhere else?

He's going to be 30 next month. His defensive game could be rounded out again, but expecting him to get back to being a 40+ point defenseman, and remain defensively responsible, is unrealistic at this point. He is what he is right now. He's not capable of playing first pairing minutes.

I think he'd be an OK on the second pairing, but his contract is horrible. At best he'd be a lateral move.

 

[Heaton]

He's going to be 30 next month. His defensive game could be rounded out again, but expecting him to get back to being a 40+ point defenseman, and remain defensively responsible, is unrealistic at this point. He is what he is right now. He's not capable of playing first pairing minutes.

I think he'd be an OK on the second pairing, but his contract is horrible. At best he'd be a lateral move.

I'll keep making excuses for him for a while - who has Phaneuf had to play with? Almost all of his defensive teammates have been regarded as terrible at times. Have they all been that bad?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Hopefully this plan is contingent on striking out on Green...

Por que no los dos?

 

[AndrewD]

Detroit should put faith in youngsters instead of trading for another veteran d... http://buff.ly/1EweJJf

 

[PelagicJoe]

Por que no los dos?

No habla, ArGarBarGar.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Because he plays on Toronto. He was a stud in Calgary, he didn't forget how to play defense in Toronto. I think in an environment like Detroit he would easily lose the 'overrated' tab, just like Bouwmeester lost it in St. Louis.

That could be the case but there's a lot of term and money left on that deal. Bouwmeester was in a similar situation to Yandle, ie only had one year left on his deal when he was traded to the Blues. The Blues liked what the saw and were then able to sign him to a new deal. With Phaneuf you would have to feel very confident he would be a good fit. Because if he's not that's another really bad contract.

The best thing about the deal in my opinion is it would clear out some middling NHL d-men which should open up a path for our prospects to start getting ice time in Detroit. Over ripening only makes sense when you have an NHL roster full of good talent. If you have basically replacement level guys getting regular ice time you should give your prospects a chance to take their jobs. We saw how guys like Tatar, Sheahan, Nyquist, DeKeyser, Marchenko, Ouellet and Pulkkinen have all looked like they belong in Detroit very quickly.

 

[FlashyG]

I'm by no means a fan of Phaneuf, but if we can get him with salary retained by Toronto for Weiss and Smith/Kindl/Ericsson we should take that deal and never look back.

I agree that he's overrated, both offensively and defensively, but he's still a guy who could eat major minutes on either of our top 2 pairs and who can play on the PP with his booming shot.

I'd prefer we move 2 defenceman in the deal though so we have an extra roster spot available for Marchenko and Ouellet. I'd also be interested to see what their cap situation would look like after that kind of a deal. If we unloaded both Ericsson and Weiss that should leave enough to make an awfully enticing offer to Green as well.

 

[mukluks]

I'll keep making excuses for him for a while - who has Phaneuf had to play with? Almost all of his defensive teammates have been regarded as terrible at times. Have they all been that bad?

I want an upgrade on D as much as the next guy but Phaneuf is not it. He is now a 30 point guy who can't play d any better than our guys. Plus his body will fall apart faster than most given his physical style. Pass on another low IQ dman, we have enough.

 

[aFish]

I want an upgrade on D as much as the next guy but Phaneuf is not it. He is now a 30 point guy who can't play d any better than our guys. Plus his body will fall apart faster than most given his physical style. Pass on another low IQ dman, we have enough.

I strongly believe Dion is a product of the system in Toronto. Look no further than Beauchemin as an example... the guy was a disaster in Toronto, goes back to ANA and turns into a very good defenseman again. Dion is easily 2x the player Beauchemin is.

How well does anyone think Kronner would fare were he in Dion's position right now? Given the pressure to Captain a team of one of the most critical markets in the world, told to play top minutes with (more often than not) a clueless defensive partner, against the opposition's top players, in a terribly coached defensive system. I love Kronner, but he'd be no better than Phaneuf if this were the case.

I think Dion would be great here under Bab's tutelage/system. I'm certainly not a fan of his contract, but if Toronto would be willing to eat even $1M of that, i'd be thrilled. Not to mention potentially riding ourselves of Weiss, who clearly has no future here as long as Babcock is coaching.