wingerdinger
Registered User
- Oct 21, 2018
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I wonder if Petry's price dropped after we signed Holl? It had to be known that Petry was available going into the offseason.
Confirmed with Link: Red Wings sign D Justin Holl 3 years, 10.2M (3.4M AAV)
- Thread starter Axel Sandy Pelikan
- Start date
Oddbob
Registered User
- Jan 21, 2016
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Gifted seems generous for a guy who makes many bonehead plays and pretty much all his penalties this season have been bad/dumb penalties.
Henkka
Registered User
- Holl was signed July 1st, 2023
- Karlsson was traded to Pens at August 6th, 2023
- Petry was traded to Detroit August 15th, 2023
Clearly, the Pittsburgh's need for a cap space (Petry out) happened over a month later, than signing Holl.
I'm quite sure Petry wasn't available earlier. Karlsson-trade changed the big picture.
Steve Yzerlland
Registered User
- Jul 18, 2018
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Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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What is your point?
The off season was still a big win overall with adding Sprong, DeBrincat, Kane, Ghost. All of which has helped us get into a solid spot in the standings.
Were you expecting your GM to make 0 bad signings ever?
Realgud
Jersey ads are a disgrace
inb4 he has a Chiarot like resurgence next season
Steve Yzerlland
Registered User
- Jul 18, 2018
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The point is I am in a thread about the Justin Holl signing and talking about how bad it was. What do all those other signings have to do with what I was talking about? What is YOUR point?
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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The big picture matters. Complaining about 1 thing when the vast majority has been good is silly/petty
Steve Yzerlland
Registered User
- Jul 18, 2018
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This is the Justin Holl signing thread. Where else should I talk about this? You are literally making zero sense right now...
He was signed because he was a righty and will get moved because he is a righty.
OgeeOgelthorpe
Baldina
- Feb 29, 2020
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He’s not great. He’s serviceable as a 5/6 and can kill penalties.
Abysmal signings are way worse than paying bottom pair money for a bottom pair guy.
HisNoodliness
The Karate Kid and ASP Kai
Honestly, the signing has turned out to be a mistake because of changing circumstances and Newsie's preferences more than anything. So I'll explain the logic and what has gone wrong for Holl since. At the time of the signing we had:
Walman-Seider
Ghost-Chiarot
Maatta-Edvinsson
as our top 6 D. Chiarot was coming off an awful season, Ghost couldn't be counted on at even strength and it was unclear whether Edvinsson would be ready. So it makes sense that Yzerman would want a 7th, established NHL D that could provide insurance if Ed wasn't ready, Chiarot was awful or Ghost's even strength defense made him a 7th D + PP specialist type.
Then Petry became available and Yzerman decided that he couldn't pass up the opportunity. To me, that was the single biggest mistake because Petry is not materially better than Holl, Maatta and Chiarot. It meant that when Ed made it clear that he was NHL ready, we now had 8 NHL defenseman and as the guy on an ELC, Ed was the odd man out. This was the second mistake. We should have acted then and there to make room for him.
Next Chiarot had a resurgence, Ghost showed that his offensive contributions easily outweigh his defensive problems, and everyone on D remained remarkably healthy. Furthermore, despite Petry being awful, Lalonde refuses to sit him. So only Maatta and Holl could sit on any given night and with Maatta providing a more steady presence, he always gets the nod. This, to me, represents the third mistake. We should have been rotating Holl in for Maatta and Petry so that his trade value didn't plummet into the negatives. Furthermore, without a regular shift, he's now cold any time that he does get to play.
Would we be better off if we'd never signed Holl? Absolutely. I think at the time of the signing it made sense. It's only such a big problem with the power of hindsight and the sum of every mistake made since. As things are, Holl is expensive and immovable. So we have to get rid of Maatta, Petry and/or Chiarot. That will be tough as they're regular players on our probably playoff- bound team and you hate to disrupt a D core that's more or less working.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Just pointing out there are reasons people aren’t as upset at this signing as you want them to be.
JediOrderPizza
Registered User
Lyon.
Yzerman has overpaid a bit for Holl, Compher and Copp, but that's the way how it works. In 90% cases you have to overpay for free agents.
Holl actually played some solid games and some very bad games.
It is a notion on this board the more you bash and complain about the players who have a bad game/games/season the more knowledgeable you seem.
Run the Jewels
Make Detroit Great Again
Like in goal, Yzerman addressed a need through sheer numbers. Holl was an unpopular signing just like Reimer was, but at least Reimer is producing solid starts of late. This is part of the reason why I'd like to make a play for Hanafin. A top 4 of Seider, Hanafin, Edvinsson and Walman would reduce the need to sign a bunch of journeyman d-men to fill out our defensive parings. Maata, Holl, Petry, Gostisbehere and Chiarot are all journeymen who have no long-term future in Detroit. What they have done is let guys like Edvinsson Wallinder and the Johanssons mature while the big club fights it out for a playoff spot.
Henkka
Registered User
Maybe unneeded?
Why abysmal?
This is Justin Holl's 3-year sample size from Toronto:
Does not look anyhow of pile of SHIT or abysmal.
This is how he has done at Detroit.
Also not anyhow look a PILE of SHIT.
But because he became the 7th D, and there was 6 better defenceman helping our team, you idiots bought the Toronto hate, how THEY SAID he was pile of SHIT, and now you idiots believe 100% that damn story.
Stop thinking like Toronto idiots as a hatered. Be smart and gentle like Detroit Red Wings fans are.
He is just lower pairing defenceman, not having a good season.
My god, I've seen bigger mistakes in my life.
wingerdinger
Registered User
- Oct 21, 2018
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thank you for the clarification. much appreciated.
so Steve got a little unlucky with the timing of things.
I completely understand why Steve felt he had to go out an sign Holl before somebody else got to his player in this case.
Still didnt like the signing at the time, but like Ive said before a mistake we should be able to get around without giving too much up.
Holden Caufield
Registered User
Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
I'll play. It's only bad if it hinders Yzerman's plans. That's not happening, so no.... it's not bad. Just redundant overpaid depth.
Good for Holl. It's nothing more than spending Billionaire's money and I doubt Ilitch org cares either.
Holl's contract is a big fat juicy nothing-burger. The real question is why do you care about a billionaires money? Chris will be just fine financially. Wings will be fine. You will be fine. We will all be fine!
Signing Holl is not a mistake, not mistake by any means.
Holl, Compher and Copp are (slightly) overpaid, but FAs are in 90% cases overpaid.
This is incredibly silly logic. Just because W, X, and Y were okay doesn't mean you can't complain about Z, which this thread is about. Blind loyalty is pathetic, all decisions should be allowed to be questioned.
Can you back up this logic? There were as many 50 point pacing RHD last year as there were LHD. So there's the same number of top end RHD as LHD, is it the bottom pairing where RHD struggle to fill roster spots?
