Salary Cap: Red Wings 2016-17 Cap discussion

[Boomhower]

From what I've read those teams pitched him in person and the Red Wings would have done the same, instead Stamkos decided he wants to stay and cancelled the remining meetings. Holland had spoken to his agent already at the draft and after it as well.

You need to accept the fact that decisions are made with the information available at that time. So can we please wait at least 2-3 years until we decide skipping Chychrun was a massive mistake? I mean he was the 6th D picked, and even CAR & BOS went with Bean and McAvoy instead of him.

In terms of the value of the draft picks involved trading away Datsyuk's contact cost us approximately a 4th round pick. What exactly was the "very, very expensive lottery ticket"?

My own personal opinions of Chychrun and Fabbro. If Bean was there I would have felt the same way. But mainly that Chychrun was there.

 

[Fugu]

During the open speaking window. Stamkos talked to 4 teams not named Tampa Bay. None of those teams were the Detroit Red Wings, we NEVER had a chance. Sure media speculated we were going after him, but no indication Stamkos was ever even going to look in our direction. (He even talked to Buffalo)

This was Holland buying a very, very expensive Lottery ticket and nothing more.

Is that really true? Why the **** did Dreger say the Wings were a leading "contender" then? To me, that means you're in the door and making your pitch.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Is that really true? Why the **** did Dreger say the Wings were a leading "contender" then? To me, that means you're in the door and making your pitch.

But what about the graphic that had the Wings as 3/1 favorites to land Stamkos?????

Ryan Suter must be really upset Stamkos didn't join him in Detroit.

 

[Boomhower]

Is that really true? Why the **** did Dreger say the Wings were a leading "contender" then? To me, that means you're in the door and making your pitch.

Like mentioned... it was 'rumored' he was going to talk to Detroit today.

But fact of the matter is 4 other teams actually did get their foot in the door and pitched him before he re-signed with Tampa... he never even bothered to listen to Detroit.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Is that really true? Why the **** did Dreger say the Wings were a leading "contender" then? To me, that means you're in the door and making your pitch.

He didn't really.

If you listen to the interview he mentions Detroit as one of the teams in the running and talks a fair amount Detroit, but I don't think he actually said they were a leading contender. It as a misleading headline.

Like mentioned... it was 'rumored' he was going to talk to Detroit today.

But fact of the matter is 4 other teams actually did get their foot in the door and pitched him before he re-signed with Tampa... he never even bothered to listen to Detroit.

Lebrun makes it sound like by the time it was Detroit's turn he had pretty much decided on Tampa.

 

[steafo]

He could have traded Datysuk's contract later, this was not the only way to get rid of it despite Holland's bellyaching to the press.

I don't think he could have got as much value if he traded it later on. No one knows what is really going on behind closed doors. Does it suck that we didn't land stamkos? Yes. Was it a long shot to begin with? Yes. Do I like what Holland has done here as of late? Absolutely not!

But you're basically ridiculing the trade based on the potential of Chych. It's no different than Holland pulling the trigger based on the POTENTIAL of signing Stamkos. There are no sure things, just hopefully calculated risks. I think it this case it was a good move. You move salary that you likely wanted to move around anyways to put yourself in a position to upgrade your roster significantly. Chych can turn out to be a bust an all-star or a serviceable player. But, as stated he was the 6th defensemen taken. It was not a home-run pick at ALL.

I am/have been of the opinion that we should probably blow it up, I'm sick of the 1st round exits and squeezing our way in. But had we signed Stamkos and somehow managed to get a top pairing defenseman how could you not argue that our roster would be significantly better than last years. At this point I would rather Holland run with our current roster and grin and bear it for a year. Take a top 5 pick and let the kids play/grow. I don't think any of the FA's that are available will provide us enough to get over the hump.

 

[Mijatovic]

What if the Cholo ends up way better the Chych? You guys gonna keep sooking then? Almost everybody here has NFI except Chych had a whole heap of pre-draft hype.

 

[ShelbyZ]

What if the Cholo ends up way better the Chych? You guys gonna keep sooking then? Almost everybody here has NFI except Chych had a whole heap of pre-draft hype.

But what if the more likely scenario happens? You know, Cholowski becoming the next Smith or Kindl....

 

[Mijatovic]

And Chychrun could go that way too. Look at Jared Cowen. Realistically, everybodys crying but theres no way ( and I mean NONE) to know which way a pick in the late teens is going to go. Everybody including the scouts are guessing.

Our scouts did not believe Chychrun was worth it. Theirs did. Thats all that happened.

 

[Winger98]

And Chychrun could go that way too. Look at Jared Cowen. Realistically, everybodys crying but theres no way ( and I mean NONE) to know which way a pick in the late teens is going to go. Everybody including the scouts are guessing.

Our scouts did not believe Chychrun was worth it. Theirs did. Thats all that happened.

Yeah, it definitely seems more like an educated guess than anything. Players might have strengths and weaknesses that we find more appealing, but at this point in the draft, you're still rolling the dice on it.

We didn't fall far in the first, we got a second, and we got financial wiggle room. I think we did pretty darn well with that trade.

 

[Dotter]

But what if the more likely scenario happens? You know, Cholowski becoming the next Smith or Kindl....

And that would mean Chychrun is the next Lashoff. Who cares, they both bust. Life goes on.

 

[Henkka]

Update:

1. Zetterberg - 6.083M
2. (mystery UFA) - ?
3. Nyquist - 4.750M
4. Abdelkader - 4.250M
5. Helm - 3.85M
6. Tatar - 2.750M
7. Sheahan - 2.075M
8. Larkin - 925k + 550k bonuses from last season
9. Miller 1.025M
10. Jurco - 900k
11. Mantha - 863k
12. Athanasiou - 628k
13. Glendening - 628k
---------------------
14. Pulkkinen - RFA (extended, ~808k estimation, qualifying offer?)
--------------------
LTIR, Franzen - 3.954M
LTIR, Vitale - 1.167M

1. Green - 6.000M
2. Kronwall - 4.750M
3. DeKeyser - RFA (extended, ~4.5M estimation)
4. Ericsson - 4.250M
5. Smith - 2.750M
6. Marchenko - 1.45M
7. Ouellet - 715k
--------------------
(8. Sproul - 600k)

8 defencemen carried up, because both Ouellet and Sproul would have to clear waivers.

1. Howard - 5.292M
2. Mrazek - RFA (extended, ~3.5M estimation)

Other costs:
2015-16 Bonus overage - 550k (already mentioned at Larkin salary)
Weiss buyout - 1.067M
Kindl salary retention - 360k

Current total figures : 70.421
Salary Cap (estimated) ~73.000M

= Cap space 2.579M (with 13+8+2 roster = 23)
LTIR Cap maximum space through Franzen+Vitale LTIR = ~7.6M

When counting Sproul down, the space is 8.2M

I think there's room to sign Nielsen for 5.5M + Matt Martin for 2.7M. Total craziness, but possible.

 

[Henkka]

Update 2:

1. Zetterberg - 6.083M
2. Nielsen - 5.250M
3. Nyquist - 4.750M
4. Abdelkader - 4.250M
5. Helm - 3.850M
6. Tatar - 2.750M
7. Sheahan - 2.075M
8. Larkin - 925k + 550k bonuses from last season
9. Miller 1.025M
10. Jurco - 900k
11. Mantha - 863k
12. Athanasiou - 628k
13. Glendening - 628k
---------------------
14. Pulkkinen - RFA (extended, ~808k estimation, qualifying offer?)
--------------------
LTIR, Franzen - 3.954M
LTIR, Vitale - 1.167M

1. Green - 6.000M
2. Kronwall - 4.750M
3. DeKeyser - RFA (extended, ~4.5M estimation)
4. Ericsson - 4.250M
5. Smith - 2.750M
6. Marchenko - 1.45M
7. Ouellet - 715k

1a. Howard - 5.292M
1b. Mrazek - RFA (extended, ~3.5M estimation)

Other costs:
2015-16 Bonus overage - 550k (already mentioned at Larkin salary)
Weiss buyout - 1.067M
Kindl salary retention - 360k

Current total figures : 73.945
Salary Cap (estimated) ~73.000M

= Cap space -0.954M (with 14+7+2 roster = 23)
LTIR Cap maximum space through Franzen+Vitale LTIR = ~4.1M


Somebody could still come in (pushes Mantha to Griffins), or, we experiment for trades to bring as much as 4M more in.

Tatar 2.75 <> Vatanen 4.85M
Tatar 2.75 <> Fowler 4.0M

Those kind things are now possible.

 

[Henkka]

Update 3:

Playing roster:
1. Zetterberg - 6.083M
2. Nielsen - 5.250M
3. Nyquist - 4.750M
4. Abdelkader - 4.250M
5. Helm - 3.850M
6. Tatar - 2.750M
7. Vanek 2.600M
8. Sheahan - 2.075M
9. Larkin - 925k + 550k bonuses from last season
10. Mantha - 863k
11. Athanasiou - 628k
12. Glendening - 628k
---------------------
Rotation/waiver fire:
13. Miller 1.025M
14. Jurco - 900k
15. Pulkkinen - RFA (extended, ~808k estimation, qualifying offer?)
16. Steve Ott - 800k
--------------------
LTIR, Franzen - 3.954M
LTIR, Vitale - 1.167M

1. Green - 6.000M
2. Kronwall - 4.750M
3. DeKeyser - RFA (extended, ~4.5M estimation)
4. Ericsson - 4.250M
5. Smith - 2.750M
6. Marchenko - 1.45M
------------------
7. Ouellet - 715k

1a. Howard - 5.292M
1b. Mrazek - RFA (extended, ~3.5M estimation)

Other costs:
2015-16 Bonus overage - 550k (already mentioned at Larkin salary)
Weiss buyout - 1.067M
Kindl salary retention - 360k

Current total figures : 73.945
Salary Cap (estimated) ~78.471M

= Cap space -5.471M (with 16+7+2 roster = 25)

2 guys over the 23-man limit, so at least 1.5M is freed up, when two bodies go somewhere.

Very difficult to make cap caluclations, but if at least Tatar or smith's 2.75M is going away and one 1M guy waived, then there's room for a 5M defenceman in a trade (Shattenkirk, Fowler, Vatanen etc.)