How would they know? They aren't competing for Stamkos and its in Stamkos' camp's interest to have Detroit move Datsyuk's deal if he wants to go there. Hell, if he wants to come to Detroit, and they're saying "we can give you $X more than anyone else if we can just move Datsyuk," and Stamkos is convinced by the organization, then if I'm Stamkos, my agent is floating a rumor that Detroit is no longer in the race.
Salary Cap: Red Wings 2016-17 Cap discussion
- Thread starter Henkka
- Start date
How would they know? They aren't competing for Stamkos and its in Stamkos' camp's interest to have Detroit move Datsyuk's deal if he wants to go there. Hell, if he wants to come to Detroit, and they're saying "we can give you $X more than anyone else if we can just move Datsyuk," and Stamkos is convinced by the organization, then if I'm Stamkos, my agent is floating a rumor that Detroit is no longer in the race.
Vladdy84
L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
If he comes to Detroit it's because he wants to come to Detroit. There are already rumors of Buffalo offering $12/yr. Other teams will offer the same $10/yr we are supposedly willing to offer.
If he makes it to FA, it's a simple phone call from Kenny. "Look, we're gonna move Datsyuk's contract for you. Here's our offer when we do. Just give us a few days."
Plus it's Stamkos. He's going to be the biggest UFA in how long? If Stamkos hasn't made up his mind yet any team with the cap room is going to be waiting on him. What kind of moron GM would say "He hasn't signed yet. Let's use up our cap space by signing a bunch of middle six/middle pairing guys so we have no money at all left in case he decides on us."
Henkka
Registered User
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Henkka
Registered User
5.07M is the maxmum we can get from them, but at the 1st day of the season we have to be cap compliant. We could sent these guys down:
Howard - waived 950k relief
Ericsson - waived 950k relief
Larkin - sent down 925k relief
Mantha - sent down 863k relief
Athanasiou - sent down 628k relief
Total 4.316M
Kind of impossible to find any other contracts technically sent down without risk of losing them, so that's our maximum to built a cap compliant roster to day 1. Our real salary cap would be then 73.0M + those contracts total 4.316 = 77.316M with Vitale and Franzen contracts.
EDIT:
If Holland builds the roster with TyBertuzzi at starting roster, then he also would open more of that LTIR space.
Also Bertuzzi sent down 617k relief = Total 4.98M
Then we would have that 5.07M LTIR almost in full usage.
But at same time it means we have gone fully against the cap.
Last edited:
Henkka
Registered User
Our REAL FREE AGENCY CAP SPACE after later becoming sure RFA-extensions (Mrazek, DeKeyser, Marchenko, Pulkkinen) is probably ~11.5M for one free roster spot.
If you you sign two free agents, then some prospect (TyBert) is going down to open a roster spot and that will raise the cap space to 12M.
That's imo the most realistic situation. Two players coming in for 12 million.
IS it Stamkos 10M + some other player for 2M,
or
two players for 2x 6M, don't know ?
But this is basic situation.
***
Then, if you extend the plan for trades, you can make more space.
Trade 2.75M Brendan Smith for picks? Add 2.75M cap space
You can sign 10M Stamkos + 4.75M defenceman (Demers?)
Or, you trade Tatar 2.75M away for Fowler (4.0M) and sign 10M Stamkos.
***
If Holland goes totally crazy, he can HOARD and SIGN players for at least 17 million, and we don't go over the summer cap 110% 80.3M Total limit.
Then trade some current players out to be cap compliant at season start. It's not gonna happen, but it's possible to do in theory, if you dump all waiver-free kids to Griffins.
Imo, it won't hurt to sign now free bodies in. You get +3 bodies in, and lose 1 body year after at expansion draft, you still added +2 bodies.
All in all, I think ~12M is the number we work for at Free agency.
If you you sign two free agents, then some prospect (TyBert) is going down to open a roster spot and that will raise the cap space to 12M.
That's imo the most realistic situation. Two players coming in for 12 million.
IS it Stamkos 10M + some other player for 2M,
or
two players for 2x 6M, don't know ?
But this is basic situation.
***
Then, if you extend the plan for trades, you can make more space.
Trade 2.75M Brendan Smith for picks? Add 2.75M cap space
You can sign 10M Stamkos + 4.75M defenceman (Demers?)
Or, you trade Tatar 2.75M away for Fowler (4.0M) and sign 10M Stamkos.
***
If Holland goes totally crazy, he can HOARD and SIGN players for at least 17 million, and we don't go over the summer cap 110% 80.3M Total limit.
Then trade some current players out to be cap compliant at season start. It's not gonna happen, but it's possible to do in theory, if you dump all waiver-free kids to Griffins.
Imo, it won't hurt to sign now free bodies in. You get +3 bodies in, and lose 1 body year after at expansion draft, you still added +2 bodies.
All in all, I think ~12M is the number we work for at Free agency.
Last edited:
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Well with Stamkos resigning back with Tampa for 8 years $68 million, With all of this cap space what does Holland do next.
Henkka
Registered User
Stamkos of the board so we go from plan A to..
plan B: 2x 6million player plan
Smells just more of Eric Staal. And that's proably bad.
DeYarmond Edison
drinkingpinkrabbits
Henkka
Registered User
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Knowing Holland i wouldn't put it past him, Since no Stamkos i sure wouldn't rule out Helm returning.
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Boomhower
Registered User
I'm just thrilled Holland sacrificed a chance at a potential star, so we could have the cap room to sign a 32 year old 'hustle' depth centre to a 5.5M/year deal.
....A guy who tops out at 50 points a season.
....A guy who tops out at 50 points a season.
If he wouldn't have made that move we had 0% of a chance at Stamkos. Hindsight is definitely 20/20. We were making a run a UFA franchise center. I don't see how people are still against that move. We moved down 4 spots and gained a 2nd. Everyone in the draft is a "potential star". The fact that Chych fell from 2 at the beginning fo the season to 16 should be alarming. It's obvious at least half of the league was not sold on him being a "potential star" as you are.
Heaton
Moderator
He could have traded Datysuk's contract later, this was not the only way to get rid of it despite Holland's bellyaching to the press.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
- 36,244
- 14,753
You can go over the cap in the off season, teams do it every year and find a way to get back under.
Plus we don't have to have our RFA's signed before July 1st, and it seems pretty clear that won't happen.
Could have not traded Datsyuk's contract and pursued Stamkos. We were rumored to be going after Stamkos before we moved Datsyuk, and Holland himself said he was surprised he was able to move Datsyuk's contract at the draft.
So this is simply not true.
RedMachine87
Registered User
For a better price? Highly unlikely, the kid GM had Chychrun high on his list and overpaid for him. It was a great trade.
Heaton
Moderator
I would've traded Datysuk's contract + AA (or whoever) if we had Stamkos locked and loaded.
Instead, we have the cap space to saddle this team with a couple worrisome contracts.
RedMachine87
Registered User
Well, hopefully Holland is not an idiot and doesn't sign anyone to too long of a term. As long as it's less than 3 years (preferably two) bring on any of Nielson, Lucic, Staal, Eriksson, Okposo, etc. He's in a position to overpay for a short term solution and thereby free himself up to trade for a defenseman. That has to be the plan...right?
Boomhower
Registered User
During the open speaking window. Stamkos talked to 4 teams not named Tampa Bay. None of those teams were the Detroit Red Wings, we NEVER had a chance. Sure media speculated we were going after him, but no indication Stamkos was ever even going to look in our direction. (He even talked to Buffalo)
This was Holland buying a very, very expensive Lottery ticket and nothing more.
ChadS
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2009
- 4,865
- 1,476
From what I've read those teams pitched him in person and the Red Wings would have done the same, instead Stamkos decided he wants to stay and cancelled the remining meetings. Holland had spoken to his agent already at the draft and after it as well.
You need to accept the fact that decisions are made with the information available at that time. So can we please wait at least 2-3 years until we decide skipping Chychrun was a massive mistake? I mean he was the 6th D picked, and even CAR & BOS went with Bean and McAvoy instead of him.
In terms of the value of the draft picks involved trading away Datsyuk's contact cost us approximately a 4th round pick. What exactly was the "very, very expensive lottery ticket"?
