Reason For Getting Outshot

[Hammertyme]

The problem is that our forwards have to backcheck too far resulting in difficulty making outlet passes and in turn reducing the effectiveness of our transition.

What do you mean? This isn't pee we hockey. The forwards on any team backcheck end to end. They dont stop high and say "the rest is for you D boys" The first forward back plays the third man on a backcheck UNLESS a d man is caught in a pinch. This is where another forward must pick up the slack. We OFTEN get caught in a change and have given up countless odd man rushes. Yes, we need high forwards in the slot and strong side but they must be in a position to get a pass. This is called PUCK SUPPORT. Last year we used a forward swinging low past the front of the net that was very effective(unless the pass is not connected). Haven't seen it that much this year. We have been getting boxed in on the edges and haven't made the adjustment.

 

[burf]

I agree. If PW46 is getting bigger, as a few have said, he needs to start using it. He is shy in the corners and does not want to take a hit to make a play. If he could develop more effectiveness/aggression/balls in the first 2/3 of the ice he would do much better. At present he is a defensive liability. Shortening his passes would help. Its like he"s trying for the stretch all the time. Teams know he"s good at it .
As far as the ineffective third d pairing these guys are playing against the other teams top lines so the stats are going to be reflective of shutdown role defenders. A pair of shutdown defenders don't typically have good advanced stats or +-. Offence, its not their role. Hits blocked shots clearing the zone is paramount. Scoring /shots/ offensive play is a bonus.
You also need to remember that Methot and Karlsson aren't usually out against the top lines. They are often out against the checkers and yet they are giving out a lot of chances. We cannot expect Karlsson to be physical and cannot afford him to be but playing 30 min a game he has to pick and choose where he's going to give 100% and it's not in the d zone. This often leaves Methot with the lions share of the defensive work.

As far as pinching a dman needs to do it to stop a play along the boards. WHere are the high forwards covering?

Wiercioch and Cowen play against roughly the same competition as Methot and Karlsson. They also get roughly equivalent offensive zone starts. Phillips and Gryba are our "shutdown pair", and they're heavily outperforming the 2nd pairing in the possession department.

Cowen, so far this season, is leading the league team in shots against per 60, despite getting fairly high o-zone starts. While Karlsson and the third pairing aren't playing that great this year, the main problem on our D is that second pairing.

The first two lines are loaded up with guys that won't back check, it's tough for the D to cover the guy down low and the guys flying down the wings at them at the same time.

Yeah, the second line is definitely a problem. Oh wait:

The second line is getting the toughest defensive starts and the toughest competition, and they're dominating shot attempts. Every other line is getting killed, despite getting easier starts and competition. I'm pretty sure the main differences between that line and the other 3 are zone exits and neutral zone play. Whenever the Turris line is in our own zone, they're passing it quickly out of the zone, AND they're gaining the offensive zone with possession. In contrast, the bottom 2 lines tend to stay hemmed in our zone for longer and then play dump and chase when they do get it out (often resulting in a turnover), and the top line gives away the puck a lot in transition.

e: Also, aside from the first line getting outshot, it seems like they're also giving up a lot of really quality scoring chances. While Spezza's leading the team in scoring, he's also leading the team in goals-against while he's on the ice. So far this season, at 5v5, he's sitting at 5 goals for and 7 goals against, and many of those can be traced to crappy turnovers and bad decision making. On the flipside, Ryan, Turris and MacArthur, who lead our forwards in 5v5 TOI/game, have only been on for 4, 3 and 2 goals against, respectively, despite also eating up the most defensive draws and playing against other teams' top lines. Turris and MacArthur, by the way, also lead the team in goals-for at 5v5 while they're on the ice.


NOTE FOR INTERPRETING THE ABOVE GRAPHS:
The x-axis is offensive zone starts (further right = more o-zone starts)
The y-axis is quality of competition (higher on the y-axis = tougher competition)
The colour of the circle represents positive or negative shot attempts (blue circle = you outshoot the opposition; red circle = you get outshot by the opposition)
The size of the circle represents shot attempt differentials (bigger circle = bigger difference in shot attempts. Big blue circle = really good, big red circle = really bad. Small blue circle = okay, small red circle = sort of bad)

 

[Stef*]

Last year we were scared to death to go on offense because of all the injuries
Well guess what we were WINNING

like I said previously I prefer to win a defensive game than to lose to edmonton by 2 goals lol

Defense plzzzzzzzzz

 

[aragorn]

Answer: The Sens are an easy team to play against, they are not physical enough & since training camp I have been saying that they are too small & too soft. Another thing I noticed at the game on Saturday is that they don't play with any urgency, energy, determination or passion. Too many nice guys on this team, they don't seem to hit enough or hard enough & there just doesn't seem to be any team orientation but rather they play an individual game. I thought Spezza would show much more leadership after being annoited captain but he continues to play his usual floating perimeter give away game & his skating back to defend is painful to watch it's so slow.

Sending Da Costa to Bingo was a good first step IMO, next Pageau should also be sent down & Zibanejad called up. Strength down the middle is something this team has lacked with bigger bodies in Grant & Zibanejad they should be harder to play against & should win a few more faceoffs. I would also like to see Condra sent to the press box & maybe Robinson brought up to add more size to that 4th line & give the opposition something to think about. It's hard to believe the number of penalties this team takes but some of the calls against have been just brutal. They must lead the league on 5 on 3s, I think they have had at least 4 or 5 times they were short. The good news is that it is still early in the season & they can & should get better but they need to find the right combination of guys & hopefully soon. Stone is a guy who could also help this team, a big body who goes to the net & has great hands to score around the net.

This organization could also use another Neil type player someone the opposition is going to fear & must watch out for. Nobody fears Condra, Pageau, Da Costa or a few other guys on this team. Right now Ottawa is easy to play against & teams don't fear playing them at all. Still waiting for BM to pull some kind of deal to bring in a hard nosed player who hits hard & makes teams fearful to play against. Matt Martin or Kyle Clifford would be nice. Even our defence is too nice, they are big but don't use their size effectively or with any kind of nastiness. I would go so far as to say our defence is too soft, we need an Adam Foote or Regier or Pronger type back there, they need to be a lot harder on the puck & play a meaner game.

 

[Laoghaire]

Wiercioch and Cowen play against roughly the same competition as Methot and Karlsson. They also get roughly equivalent offensive zone starts. Phillips and Gryba are our "shutdown pair", and they're heavily outperforming the 2nd pairing in the possession department.

Cowen, so far this season, is leading the league in shots against per 60, despite getting fairly high o-zone starts. While Karlsson and the third pairing aren't playing that great this year, the main problem on our D is that second pairing.



Yeah, the second line is definitely a problem. Oh wait:

The second line is getting the toughest defensive starts and the toughest competition, and they're dominating shot attempts. Every other line is getting killed, despite getting easier starts and competition. I'm pretty sure the main differences between that line and the other 3 are zone exits and neutral zone play. Whenever the Turris line is in our own zone, they're passing it quickly out of the zone, AND they're gaining the offensive zone with possession. In contrast, the bottom 2 lines tend to stay hemmed in our zone for longer and then play dump and chase when they do get it out (often resulting in a turnover), and the top line gives away the puck a lot in transition.

e: Also, aside from the first line getting outshot, it seems like they're also giving up a lot of really quality scoring chances. While Spezza's leading the team in scoring, he's also leading the team in goals-against while he's on the ice. So far this season, at 5v5, he's sitting at 5 goals for and 7 goals against, and many of those can be traced to crappy turnovers and bad decision making. On the flipside, Ryan, Turris and MacArthur, who lead our forwards in 5v5 TOI/game, have only been on for 4, 3 and 2 goals against, respectively, despite also eating up the most defensive draws and playing against other teams' top lines. Turris and MacArthur, by the way, also lead the team in goals-for at 5v5 while they're on the ice.


NOTE FOR INTERPRETING THE ABOVE GRAPHS:
The x-axis is offensive zone starts (further right = more o-zone starts)
The y-axis is quality of competition (higher on the y-axis = tougher competition)
The colour of the circle represents positive or negative shot attempts (blue circle = you outshoot the opposition; red circle = you get outshot by the opposition)
The size of the circle represents shot attempt differentials (bigger circle = bigger difference in shot attempts. Big blue circle = really good, big red circle = really bad. Small blue circle = okay, small red circle = sort of bad)

This stuff is awesome. I want to just read this all of the time. Any more information?

 

[burf]

This stuff is awesome. I want to just read this all of the time. Any more information?

The charts I got from Yost's blog, while the other stuff was from http://www.extraskater.com/, which is by far the best NHL stats site around. It even tracks shot attempts for/against live during games.

 

[enviro61]

It confirms that our eyes have not been deceiving us. It's been fairly obvious that the Turris line has been the best by FAR, this however does shed some light on just how poorly the other lines have been performing. Some coaches are real statisticians and follow this stuff closely; not sure about MacLean.

Guys like Neil could really add some offence to the 4th line back in the day but he is looking washed up. Not only does he not drop the gloves anymore but he doesn't chip in as much offensively. Z Smith was great offensively his first year here and is now hardly noticable. Those are just 2 names of many that have really dried up.

It also speaks to our defensive pairings and how they are allowing the other team to get off soooo many quality shots with their turnovers and inability to move the puck out of the zone quickly.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

That 2nd pairing allows so much shots on net but keep in mind that they also get zero support from 3 out of the 4 lines.

2 defensive pairings: Outshoot opponents

3 forward groups: Get OUTSHOT.

Smith Greening and Neil do not work together as a line.

Condra is spectacular puck possession player but if he is getting outshot you know his linesmates suck.

With that being said, the amount of minutes that 2nd pairing eats and allow that much chances is unacceptable.

 

[Hammertyme]

That 2nd pairing allows so much shots on net but keep in mind that they also get zero support from 3 out of the 4 lines.

2 defensive pairings: Outshoot opponents

3 forward groups: Get OUTSHOT.

Smith Greening and Neil do not work together as a line.

Condra is spectacular puck possession player but if he is getting outshot you know his linesmates suck.

With that being said, the amount of minutes that 2nd pairing eats and allow that much chances is unacceptable.

Would Gryba/Phillips do any better as second pairing.

 

[BurgoShark]

Preissing, Picard, Gilroy, Kuba. I think that's all we traded for isn't it? The rest were UFA or Homegrown.

Campoli

 

[malcolmedge]

Its because with the addition of so many offensive players McLean has stopped playing the trap/defensive style game. Simple as that.

 

[Sensinitis]

Makes sense, gotta fix it though. The adaptation period should be ending soon.