Reason For Getting Outshot

[NyQuil]

Our bottom six has looked slow.

And our top line has also looked slow at times.

That hasn't helped.

JOB for Kassian please. At least JOB can skate - and maybe he and Pageau can get something going. Pageau's best shift of the game is when he was on his own, using his speed - with Condra and Kassian nowhere in sight.

 

[DJB]

Our top 4 was the biggest question mark coming into this season.

Not surprisingly, it's been iffy.

Bang on. Relying on Cowen and Weircioch as our 2nd pair is hurting us right now. Both are slow and simply not good. We need another defenceman.

I hate to say this, but Kadri would have been the better pick over Cowen afterall.

 

[NyQuil]

I hate to say this, but Kadri would have been the better pick over Cowen afterall.

Giant defencemen take much longer to develop.

Zdeno Chara, Tyler Myers, Victor Hedman.

They can be well worth it down the road.

Flashy offensive guys usually make a much quicker impact.

Cowen is a project, but down the road, if we're patient, he'll give opposing teams nightmares in the post-season. He manhandled Montreal pretty good last year.

 

[Laoghaire]

Bang on. Relying on Cowen and Weircioch as our 2nd pair is hurting us right now. Both are slow and simply not good. We need another defenceman.

I hate to say this, but Kadri would have been the better pick over Cowen afterall.

Well we know Murray sure tried.

 

[member 137785]

Cowen is more valuable than Kadri if he turns into what the Sens project him to be. Give him time, he missed a year, if you exclude his playoff comeback that's about 16 months. You can't just step back into the NHL, you have to get your legs. Same goes for Karlsson.

 

[Sensinitis]

Doesn't have the brains, composure, or skill


And I'm a huge Pat dubyah fan

Brains: I think he does.

Composure: Takes time to develop that, it's not something you have or you don't. He's already showed more composure this season.

Skill: He's a really good passer and has a nice hard shot. Stickhandles pretty well too(see his assist on Spezza's goal vs. Phoenix). Don't know what else you're looking for.

 

[DJB]

Giant defencemen take much longer to develop.

Zdeno Chara, Tyler Myers, Victor Hedman.

They can be well worth it down the road.

Flashy offensive guys usually make a much quicker impact.

Cowen is a project, but down the road, if we're patient, he'll give opposing teams nightmares in the post-season. He manhandled Montreal pretty good last year.

I know D-men take longer to develop (Myers really isn't a good example as he is worse than Cowen imo), but unless Jared's decision making, acceleration and puck handling improve, he will be what he is. A bottom pairing guy that plays the pk and plays physical.

Kadri is already a top 6 guy who is now looking like a top line player. I'd rather have Kadri over a guy like Michalek at this point.

 

[DJB]

Well we know Murray sure tried.

Had that been anyone but that stubborn arse Burke, Murray probably is able to pull off that deal.

 

[dennilfloss]

Puck possession also plays a part. We'd have fewer shots against if we spent more time in the opposing zone.

 

[NyQuil]

Unless Jared's decision making, acceleration and puck handling improve, he will be what he is. A bottom pairing guy that plays the pk and plays physical.

I think he's already shown extended periods of legitimate top 4 play in the NHL already.

Kadri is already a top 6 guy who is now looking like a top line player. I'd rather have Kadri over a guy like Michalek at this point.

I can think of a lot of guys I'd want over Michalek at this point.

 

[Master Kush]

The reason is simple...our defence is bad.

Gonchar got a lot of flak when he was here. And I get it to a certain extent. He's pretty slow, looks like he isn't trying etc. But anyone who understands the game would notice all the small little plays that he was so good at...like controlling the puck in the dzone and making a quick accurate pass to a forward to start a rush.

I think the Ryan trade blinded people from what we really needed this off season, a #3 dman.

Im not too worried with EK, yea he's been bad defensively but let's see how he looks come the all star break and judge then. Method has been fine, he'll be better as the season progresses.

However, out bottom two pairs have been atrocious. Gryba is nothing more than an injury call up. Big Rig has been doing nothing but taking a Big sh.t whenever he's on the ice. Hopefully for his sake, he hangs it up after this year cause he just doesnt have it anymore. He had a good career here, maybe not a #1 pick kind of career, but a solid presence none the less.

Weir and Cowen are simply not ready to be a 2nd pair. Both guys are panicking whenever they have a hint of pressure on them. Every team will know to forcheck these guys hard and they'll get plenty of chances every period from turnovers galore.

Cowen I can understand, he's a big guy who hasnt played much the past few years. Guys like him take longer to develop (just look at Chara). But he needs to be playing sheltered minutes until he proves himself. Cause let's be honest, he hasn't done much to show that he's top 4 in the big leagues as of yet.

Weir brings offence so his defensive deficiencies can be somewhat overlooked. But he needs to stop playing scared and realize that he's actually bigger than most guys out there and be more assertive.

It's going to really interesting to see if Murray looks for a trade or just rides this season out calling it another year of the rebuild.

 

[Marty9]

The way we're playing kind of reminds of the Craig Hartsburg days.

Full retreat to the D zone on any lose puck. Instead of having the possibility of winning the race to a loose puck or even losing the race but taking away the oppositions time and space we full retreat out of the zone into a defensive position. We give ourselves no chance at gaining control of the loose puck and we also don't take away their time and spacce to create turnovers, they have easy exits out of their zone most of the time.

We put very little pressure on the oppositions puck carrier in all 3 zones of rink.

Too big a gap between forwards and defense on the breakout. This usually leads to a chip off the boards and out of the zone for a turnover/giveaway (aka the Chris Phillips special) OR a pass to a forward who is usually standing still and is very easily and quickly defended against.

The odd time we are coming out of the zone as a 5 man unit with good spacing the pass to the forward seems to often end up in the skates or even behind him slowing him down.

This is just what (I think) I see. This is coming from next to no hockey knowledge.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

The way we're playing kind of reminds of the Craig Hartsburg days.

Full retreat to the D zone on any lose puck. Instead of having the possibility of winning the race to a loose puck or even losing the race but taking away the oppositions time and space we full retreat out of the zone into a defensive position. We give ourselves no chance at gaining control of the loose puck and we also don't take away their time and spacce to create turnovers, they have easy exits out of their zone most of the time.

We put very little pressure on the oppositions puck carrier in all 3 zones of rink.

Too big a gap between forwards and defense on the breakout. This usually leads to a chip off the boards and out of the zone for a turnover/giveaway (aka the Chris Phillips special) OR a pass to a forward who is usually standing still and is very easily and quickly defended against.

The odd time we are coming out of the zone as a 5 man unit with good spacing the pass to the forward seems to often end up in the skates or even behind him slowing him down.

This is just what (I think) I see. This is coming from next to no hockey knowledge.

Brilliant post.

I've noticed the exact same thing too but I couldn't even put it into words. You just did it for me.

Whenever there is a loose puck our players just RETREAT. They don't even bother to go after it. The only guys that do are Conacher, Pageau and... uh... Ryan? MacArthur and Turris to an extent.

They panic and play defense. This confuses our defenders not knowing who to pick up and causes more harm then good.

I can not begin to count the number of times Smith dumps it in and plays in the middle of both our defenders and makes an opposition 2on3 end with a great scoring chance for them.

To be honest, I don't care if we get blown out if the guys go hard after the puck but they aren't. They're trying to force their game. The games we are winning so far feel just barely while our losses feel huge, this can't hold as season progresses.

One of the reasons could be forwards not trusting the defense as much so they try to come back n help. Regardless, it's INFURIATING TO WATCH MAN.

It could also just lack of chemistry combined with high expectations thats making them play so cautious.

 

[DrEasy]

- Gonchar was great as a calming influence. His slow decision-making on the PP or more generally on the offensive zone drove me nuts, but on the D zone it translated into the kind of composure that we won't see from Wiercioch for quite a while, if ever. He could carry the puck, and he could absorb a hit without coughing up the puck. It's unfair to expect Wiercioch to blossom into a HoF D like Gonchar, but if he can at least turn into a Rachunek type (RIP) I'll be happy.

- Another guy who could play the puck possession game is also gone. Can't remember his name though...

- and another guy who was pretty responsible defensively and who's gone: Silfverberg.

- Phillips is one year older.

- Neil is one year older.

- Face offs in the D zone! Even though we did better against NJ, we still allowed another goal after a F/O loss. And it's not just a matter of winning a face off, it's a matter of knowing what to do when it's won or when it's lost.

- Less physical play: we don't strike enough fear in the heart of their forwards. Neil isn't hitting like he used to, Greening looks passive, we're missing Ziba, and where did Methot's patented hip check go? Kassian plays very few shifts, and even then he's slow and horribad. He used to manage to hit people last year.

- lack of coordination between D and F, but with time it should improve. I'm no coach, and so I don't know how you fix this.

DrEasy's EasyFixes (TM):

- get a top 4 D (ok than one's easier said than done)
- bring back JOB and Ziba: F/O for the first guy, physical play for the second
- don't pair up Phillips with Gryba. Either play Corvo, or at least use Philly with Wiercioch.
- Methot, Neil, Greening, Smith, Cowen, Ziba, Gryba need to HIT!HIT!HIT!

 

[take a peek]

Bang on. Relying on Cowen and Weircioch as our 2nd pair is hurting us right now. Both are slow and simply not good. We need another defenceman.

I hate to say this, but Kadri would have been the better pick over Cowen afterall.

Cowen will shove those words back down your throat...this season!

 

[Micklebot]

Except one of the youngest D-cores in the NHL is to blame in a huge way, since Karlsson-Methot, and to a lesser extent Corvo, are the only D-men on the team who can get it out of our zone with possession regularly. The other 4 all play the old "chip it up the boards and hope it works out" game, which results in a turnover and more shots against.

However, the forwards (with the exception of Turris, Mac, and Ryan) definitely aren't helping out any either. There's a reason that the 3 players on the Turris line are vastly outperforming everyone else on the team (in today's game they each had 50%+ of the shot attempts, while everyone else was under 40%), and that's: 1) their ability to make good passes out of the zone; 2) their ability to gain the offensive zone with possession; and 3) they don't give the puck away nearly as much in the offensive zone.



I agree completely, albeit modified by what I said about the forwards above.

This seems logical, except that Karlsson and Methot are getting outshot too. In fact, at 5vs5, Corvo and Gryba are the only ones on the team getting more shots than they allow (Phillips is next best with 49% of the shots while on the ice). Weir and Cowen are getting decimated, that's where the problem is.

 

[SlapJack]

The whole team looks out of synch, that's the problem right now. Seeing that they are 3-2-2 after a tough 6 game road trip and then the home opener, they're in good shape. It's October, teams don't start to look right until November.

We haven't seen hockey for this period in 2 years so maybe people have forgotten that. Remember how the Sens looked after 7 games 2 years ago? Fail for Nail was strong then.

 

[BondraTime]

We are -29.20 in PP minus PK time.

Then team closest to that is The Blues with -15.53.

That is the main reason we are being out-shot so badly.

We have been a man down for half a game through the first seven. That includes five or six 5-3 situations.

 

[We Want the Cup 2010]

The whole team looks out of synch, that's the problem right now. Seeing that they are 3-2-2 after a tough 6 game road trip and then the home opener, they're in good shape. It's October, teams don't start to look right until November.

We haven't seen hockey for this period in 2 years so maybe people have forgotten that. Remember how the Sens looked after 7 games 2 years ago? Fail for Nail was strong then.

I approve this post.

They are making so many little mistakes, and are still chasing the game. Positioning needs to be better by many of the young pups, as witnessed by all of the poor pinches and Spezza pushing Conacher to where he was supposed to be against Phoenix.

Gryba, Cowen, Michalek, Condra, and Neil need to get their timing... they just look out of sync.

It's coming slowly... Definitely reminiscent of the start two years ago.

Lots of positive's tho (Turris, Spezza, Ryan, Methot, Karlsson, Anderson, Lehner all look like game changers)

 

[Micklebot]

We are -29.20 in PP minus PK time.

Then team closest to that is The Blues with -15.53.

That is the main reason we are being out-shot so badly.

We have been a man down for half a game through the first seven. That includes five or six 5-3 situations.

While the PP discrepancy is a contributing factor, there is a lot more to it as we have among the worst shots against at Even strength.

Other contributing factors include the folowing:

We Played 6 of 7 games on the road. Home ice advantage contributes by giving the home team last change, as well as a small advantage at the faceoff dot. There is also a home team bias with the areana statisticians, often inflating home team hits and shots (MSG is notorious for this).

In some games (like against NJ last night) the score effect was obvious. Teams open up when they are down, and tighten up defensively when they are up (especially when by more than 1 goal), we got our lead early and NJ was forced to play high event hockey. (Score effect did not help against the ducks though...)

I mentioned it above, but the only defensive pairing being killed in the shot count is Wiercioch and Cowen, who allow about 16 shots against for every 10-11 taken while they are on the ice.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Cowen needs much more development. He should be eased into the line up on the bottom pairing. He hasnt played enough NHL hockey and you can tell he's behind in his development. Imo we should look to acquire a true PMD that can replace Corvo and add depth to the team on defense. Del Zotto, Leddy and Ellis would be guys i'd be interested in off the top of my head. Not really sure who is availible but i'd like to seperate the wier-cowen pairing and the phillips gryba pairing.

 

[enviro61]

Cowen needs much more development. He should be eased into the line up on the bottom pairing. He hasnt played enough NHL hockey and you can tell he's behind in his development. Imo we should look to acquire a true PMD that can replace Corvo and add depth to the team on defense. Del Zotto, Leddy and Ellis would be guys i'd be interested in off the top of my head. Not really sure who is availible but i'd like to seperate the wier-cowen pairing and the phillips gryba pairing.

The team needs to pony up and get a good PMD and not these stop gap measures that have failed repeatedly. I can't even recall all of the PMD we have obtained with scraps that have turned into nothing.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

The team needs to pony up and get a good PMD and not these stop gap measures that have failed repeatedly. I can't even recall all of the PMD we have obtained with scraps that have turned into nothing.

Well we shelled out for Gonchar but he was only a temporary fix do to his age. Imo we need someone in there prime or nearing it.

 

[BondraTime]

The team needs to pony up and get a good PMD and not these stop gap measures that have failed repeatedly. I can't even recall all of the PMD we have obtained with scraps that have turned into nothing.

Preissing, Picard, Gilroy, Kuba. I think that's all we traded for isn't it? The rest were UFA or Homegrown.

 

[sensfandan]

Cowen is getting no support from Wiercioch right now, he's pretty much just a passenger at even strength. He looks good from the blue line in and that's it. We can't be relying on him as a top 4 puck mover, as he's killing our possession game right now, in my mind he's really just a bottom pairing PP specialist, ala Kurtis Foster or MA Bergeron. His 15:40 of ice time last night shows me Maclean agrees.

Cowen looks bad because he's over committing and trying to do everything himself. It gets him caught out of position and he takes stupid penalties. IMO our best option at the moment is to put Corvo with Cowen to handle the breakouts/transition. Obviously that's just a stop gap and hopefully Murray can find a better solution.