Really cannot understand the Bylsma hate

[gordie]

Engelland barely plays in the top-6 anymore. He's our 8th D.

Engelland gets the nod over Despres at least as far as Bylsma is concerned.

 

[Dying Alive]

Engelland gets the nod over Despres at least as far as Bylsma is concerned.

So does Maatta, who is even less of a vet than Despres.

 

[gordie]

So does Maatta, who is even less of a vet than Despres.

I won't complain about that, but Engelland I just know when the playoffs starts will get his chance to play even if Despres is still around.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

As far as DB's hate for rookies and young players....

the following rookies made the team/had a noticeable impact in their first year:

Maatta
Letestu
Vitale
Zatkoff
Bennett
Megna
Engelland
Bortuzzo - stuck on a very deep team
Letang was 21 years old in DB's first year here and he had a significant role.

While it has been stated DB doesn't trust Despres, he is also the victim of a deep D core and being the only one with a 2 way contract. Also, Maatta emerged.

There was also Tangradi and Jeffrey who this board likes to fault DB for not making them into super stars. Truth is, they weren't good enough to play on this team, and aren't doing very well on their new teams either. Looks like DB knew something that this board did not. Imagine that!

 

[Fordy]

Anything more than 0 TOI is overplaying Glass and Adams.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

My issue with Bylsma is he isn't growing as a coach. He's not improving in the areas he has weaknesses. You can point to his personnel decisions and systems and whatnot, but those are the symptoms of that lack of growth from Bylsma.

It's no different than with star players who have potential. Sidney Crosby at age 26 is a much better player than Sidney Crosby at age 18. He came into the league as a great player with great potential, but who had flaws in his game. He worked on them and we've seen the majority of those flaws eliminated from his game.

In contrast, is Dan Bylsma 2014 any different than Dan Bylsma 2009? The flaws and weaknesses in his coaching from 2009 are still evident in 2014. So where's the growth as a coach? Where's the improvement in a good but flawed coach in the past 5 seasons?

We expect our players to improve upon their weaknesses. Letang's decision making, Malkin's dumb penalties, Fleury's mental strength in the playoffs, etc. Shouldn't the same be expected of our coach?

Bylsma is a talented coach, and he has the *potential* to be great. But only if he can improve on the areas that he's weak in. My issue with him is that he's shown zero improvement in those weaknesses since the day he took over behind the Pens' bench. And his stubbornness makes me question whether he will ever make those improvements.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

C'mon, stay with me. I'm a huge Shero fan, but that's not the point. I'm speaking in generalities and board-speak.

But, since you asked, not sure, given the speed at which the top two lines play, that the guys Shero signed were the "right" guys. Those moves were a little EA Sportish for me--didn't surprise me a bit they didn't clique. I think the fact Jarome couldn't really skate with Sid was as important in him not being a factor as him playing on his off wing.

There is no defense in putting Iggy on LW in favor of Dupuis.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

My issue with Bylsma is he isn't growing as a coach. He's not improving in the areas he has weaknesses. You can point to his personnel decisions and systems and whatnot, but those are the symptoms of that lack of growth from Bylsma.

It's no different than with star players who have potential. Sidney Crosby at age 26 is a much better player than Sidney Crosby at age 18. He came into the league as a great player with great potential, but who had flaws in his game. He worked on them and we've seen the majority of those flaws eliminated from his game.

In contrast, is Dan Bylsma 2014 any different than Dan Bylsma 2009? The flaws and weaknesses in his coaching from 2009 are still evident in 2014. So where's the growth as a coach? Where's the improvement in a good but flawed coach in the past 5 seasons?

We expect our players to improve upon their weaknesses. Letang's decision making, Malkin's dumb penalties, Fleury's mental strength in the playoffs, etc. Shouldn't the same be expected of our coach?

Bylsma is a talented coach, and he has the *potential* to be great. But only if he can improve on the areas that he's weak in. My issue with him is that he's shown zero improvement in those weaknesses since the day he took over behind the Pens' bench. And his stubbornness makes me question whether he will ever make those improvements.

What are these weaknesses?

 

[penguins2946*]

There needs to be a point where you start pointing the finger at Sid and Geno. 0 points each in a playoff series is unacceptable. I know it's easy to blame the coach, but last year's series against the Bruins was not entirely his fault. Even if we would have put Iggy with Sid, we still wouldn't have scored many goals.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

There is no defense in putting Iggy on LW in favor of Dupuis.

Maybe Iggy is too slow to keep up with Sid and Kunitz.
Maybe DB didn't want to break up with "best line in the league" at that time.
Maybe Sid and coaches thought Sid and Kunitz would be more succesfull with Dupuis instead of Iggy.
Maybe DB prefers 3 scoring lines instead of 2.

 

[Fordy]

What are these weaknesses?

personnel decisions, in-game adjustments

 

[Fordy]

Maybe Iggy is too slow to keep up with Sid and Kunitz.
Maybe DB didn't want to break up with "best line in the league" at that time.
Maybe Sid and coaches thought Sid and Kunitz would be more succesfull with Dupuis instead of Iggy.
Maybe DB prefers 3 scoring lines instead of 2.

Well Guerin wasn't too slow to keep up with Sid and Kunitz, so that's ********.
Well he did break it up when they were about to lose to New York so that's ********.
Well they weren't, so that's ********.
Well they still would have had three scoring lines, that's the whole point of picking up three players at the deadline, so that's ******** too. In fact, they should have had FOUR scoring lines, if we want to do this all over again:

Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla
Bennett-Malkin-Neal
Morrow-Jokinen-Dupuis
Cooke-Sutter-Kennedy

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

As far as DB's hate for rookies and young players....

the following rookies made the team/had a noticeable impact in their first year:

Maatta
Letestu
Vitale
Zatkoff
Bennett
Megna
Engelland
Bortuzzo - stuck on a very deep team
Letang was 21 years old in DB's first year here and he had a significant role.

While it has been stated DB doesn't trust Despres, he is also the victim of a deep D core and being the only one with a 2 way contract. Also, Maatta emerged.

There was also Tangradi and Jeffrey who this board likes to fault DB for not making them into super stars. Truth is, they weren't good enough to play on this team, and aren't doing very well on their new teams either. Looks like DB knew something that this board did not. Imagine that!

Maatta is the only guy from that lists that supports your theory. Everyone else was either jerked around by DB, is way too soon to tell or is only on that list because of injury.

And I love how you added Tang. He was given his shot by MT and was already on the roster when DB took over.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Maybe Iggy is too slow to keep up with Sid and Kunitz.
Maybe DB didn't want to break up with "best line in the league" at that time.
Maybe Sid and coaches thought Sid and Kunitz would be more succesfull with Dupuis instead of Iggy.
Maybe DB prefers 3 scoring lines instead of 2.

1 - If Guerin wasn't too slow for Sid, Iggy wasn't.

2 - A good coach would have realized that "best line in the league" wasn't working and made a change.

3 - Sid shouldn't have a say in line-up decisions.

4 - Putting Duper on the 3rd line would have created 3 scoring lines...

So all four points are wrong.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla
Bennett-Malkin-Neal
Morrow-Jokinen-Dupuis
Cooke-Sutter-Kennedy

This roster just pisses me off. Thinking of what should have been and what DB did to an all-star roster is just depressing.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

What are these weaknesses?

I'm pretty sure the weaknesses have been covered ad nauseum. Player usage, vets/rookie standards, in-game adjustments, etc. If you want more in-depth explanations of those, feel free to browse the hundreds of threads/posts discussing them in detail.

But I'll flip it around and ask, do you believe he's made huge strides as a coach? In what areas has he improved since 2009?

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

Well Guerin wasn't too slow to keep up with Sid and Kunitz, so that's ********.
Well he did break it up when they were about to lose to New York so that's ********.
Well they weren't, so that's ********.
Well they still would have had three scoring lines, that's the whole point of picking up three players at the deadline, so that's ******** too. In fact, they should have had FOUR scoring lines, if we want to do this all over again:

Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla
Bennett-Malkin-Neal
Morrow-Jokinen-Dupuis
Cooke-Sutter-Kennedy

Kunitz Sid Dupuis was widely considered as the best line in hockey. Dupuis was having a career season and a very succesful playoffs. Why break that up?

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Kunitz Sid Dupuis was widely considered as the best line in hockey. Dupuis was having a career season and a very succesful playoffs. Why break that up?

Because it didn't work in the POs....


Is that a serious question? Do you think that line worked in the POs?

 

[WayneSid9987]

"All he does is win"

DB's home playoff record in '09: 9-2
Since then: 10-12

When it counts and when he has the advantage, he loses more than he wins(since his Cup win).

I pray that he finds his way here cuz he's genuinely liked by owners, players and other staff.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

Maatta is the only guy from that lists that supports your theory. Everyone else was either jerked around by DB, is way too soon to tell or is only on that list because of injury.

And I love how you added Tang. He was given his shot by MT and was already on the roster when DB took over.

My point is that he gives playing time to those rookies who deserve it, such as the ones I pointed out. The other guys like Jeffrey and Tangardi were jerked around because they weren't good, period.

Letang was at the same stage of his career that Despres is now, albeit a few more games played. I included him because he was a young, talented, inexperienced Dman who got good playing time from DB.

 

[bathroomSTAAL]

Bylsma sucks

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Letang was at the same stage of his career that Despres is now, albeit a few more games played. I included him because he was a young, talented, inexperienced Dman who got good playing time from DB.

That's not true. Letang was already a regular in the NHL before Bylsma took over. He played a full season the prior year (67 games in the regular season, plus 16 in the playoffs), then played 60+ games prior to Bylsma replacing Therrien.

It isn't even close to comparable to the situation Despres is in.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

Because it didn't work in the POs....


Is that a serious question? Do you think that line worked in the POs?

Sid 15 points in 14 games
Dupuis 11 points in 15 games
Kunitz 10 points in 15 games

Doesn't seem like a failure to me.

I won't deny that fact that it was shut out by Boston. But then again, the whole team was.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

My point is that he gives playing time to those rookies who deserve it, such as the ones I pointed out. The other guys like Jeffrey and Tangardi were jerked around because they weren't good, period.

Letang was at the same stage of his career that Despres is now, albeit a few more games played. I included him because he was a young, talented, inexperienced Dman who got good playing time from DB.

Like I said, Olli is the only guy DB hasn't jerked around. Everyone else on the list has either been jerked around and should be on the list (or in the case of Zat is the only option).

And Letang doesn't work because he was coming off two extend POs when DB fully took over the roster. Why are you making **** up that is easily checked? Had Db been in charge of the team in 2006, Tang would have never gotten the cup of coffee that MT gave him.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Sid 15 points in 14 games
Dupuis 11 points in 15 games
Kunitz 10 points in 15 games

Doesn't seem like a failure to me.

I won't deny that fact that it was shut out by Boston. But then again, the whole team was.

Jesus what a terrible argument.