Really cannot understand the Bylsma hate

[Fordy]

More games than any coach in the franchise's 46 year history?

And does that matter?

 

[WhatsaMaatta]

For me, this is the problem. There is such a profound lack of diversity of opinion, thought and ideas on these boards, sometimes it seems as if each post is written by the same person. Not to be offensive to anyone, but I really only pay attention to about five posters on the Pens board, the rest seem to be simply parroting the rant du jour.

I applaud the OP for his boldness in actually trying to promote discussion beyond Bylsma's love of "Gladams," hatred of Despres and other young guys, and--most egregious--his failure to "adjust" in a game. Certainly, Bylsma's record given a couple of superstars, a headcase for a goalie, and a bunch of scrubs, warrant that discussion.

As tiring and sedentary as the conversations revolving around Bylsma's coaching can get, I think it is unfair to dismiss it as parroting, hive mind, or a "Pittsburgh fan" syndrome. Perhaps people are unhappy with Bylsma because there actually are multiple valid reasons to be upset with him?

Bylsma helped win this team a championship, and he is the winningest coach in Pens' history. You can't take those things away from him. But he also has luxuries on this team that other coaches don't have. And even with his record, there are recurring issues with this team every year which have seemed to become more pronounced every year. The defense and transition game as a whole are examples of this. Gap control, clearing the crease, back checking, and puck possession are all issues with this team. Is that parroting, or is it just stating the facts?

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Just the 'appearance' of a coach playing/having favorites to me is just beyond anything a coach should be IMO. If it was just one person/myself thinking he was this way than it would be my problem. The fact that I am not the only one that thinks/sees it makes it more of an issue. Can't think of a worst trait for a coach to have but that is my opinion.


Edit: I am actually very interested is seeing how he does coaching Team USA.

He and Shero already used their influence to get a worthless Orpik on the roster. I have a hard time seeing him bench Brooks in Russia.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I didn't have much of an issue with Bylsma until the blatant stubbornness I saw when it came to using Iginla. A coach puts his players in the best position to succeed.

It may not have been evident on TV but if you were at Consol it was so easy to see how misused Iginla was and how much confusion it caused on the ice. A simple adjustment needed to be done and it wasn't done.

There were a few other things like the lack of trust in your players but the Iginla debacle really turned me against Bylsma because it opened my eyes to him. This year, his same stubbornness has to do with how he's using the 4th line in the defensive zone against other team's first line players. It's as if he believes the 4th line is his best defensive line. Craig Adams is a -11 on a team with our record makes little sense when you see him burned all the time. The same thing with Letang. As a coach you see your defenseman make turnover after turnover and there is no repercussions. Work with him to simplify his game.

**** Bylsma and his smug ass. He's not a teacher IMO. He's just a guy that lucked into coaching a team that had two of the best players in the world. After he took over the team he's gradually gone further and further away from the style of play that won us the cup to making us look like the Washington Capitals in the playoffs when they were run and gun. I'm glad they brought Martin in this year to reign the defense in a bit but I'm hesitant to believe we've exorcised Bylsma's failures due to stubborness until I see it in the playoffs. I just have visions of Adams getting continually played against the other team's best players either due to lack of matchups or believing he can shut them down and no adjustments being made until it's way too late.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

More games than any coach in the franchise's 46 year history?

That has much more to do with longevity and the team he inherited than coaching ability.

The sad thing is that these great regular season numbers have blinded Shero into thinking that he's a good PO coach, which he isn't.

 

[Lomez]

He and Shero already used their influence to get a worthless Orpik on the roster. I have a hard time seeing him bench Brooks in Russia.

..and he didn't pick Despres over Orpik! oh, wait....

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I think DB is well liked and appreciated by the majority of pens fans.

Hes just not liked by the majority of this board.

It might sound ****** to say but I was one of the few at Consol that sat in my seat and didn't participate in his standing O the other night. But hey, it's a free country and I have a right to my opinion so too bad if you don't like it or say I don't have any class.

I did applaud Eddie Johnston though. He will always deserve an applause for trading us Francis and Ulf back in the day

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

..and he picked Despres over Orpik! oh, wait....

Des is Canadian so I'm not sure what he has to do with the US Olympic team.

You clearly have an issue with the Bylsma hate. How about you explain why you support him instead of just *****ing about people putting him down? There have been many arguments in this thread, and others, that explain why some don't like DB, but you just call it the HF hive mentality. If it's just hive mentality you should have no problem explaining why we're all wrong about DB.

 

[penguins2946*]

While some of the Bylsma hate is completely irrational and unjustified, there's a lot of criticisms of Bylsma that are completely fair. To name a few:

-He refuses to play better younger players over older players
-He is incapable of changing his strategy during the game
-He puts players in different positions just to keep his star centers happy (mainly Iginla)
-He lacks the balls to punish the team

I could name about 10 more as well. He has issues that many other coaches have as well.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I think DB is well liked and appreciated by the majority of pens fans.

Hes just not liked by the majority of this board.

You're probably right, but that doesn't make him a good coach.

Not every opinion is equal and the average hockey fan doesn't know the game well enough to make an informed opinion about coaching/systems. If you try to discuss something like the stretch pass to a casual fan they'll have no idea what you're talking about, which is why many come here to discuss hockey.

And TBH, every single person in the world could think that DB is the right coach for this team and that wouldn't change my opinion of him.

 

[Dying Alive]

You're probably right, but that doesn't make him a good coach.

Not every opinion is equal and the average hockey fan doesn't know the game well enough to make an informed opinion about coaching/systems. If you try to discuss something like the stretch pass to a casual fan they'll have no idea what you're talking about, which is why many come here to discuss hockey.

And TBH, every single person in the world could think that DB is the right coach for this team and that wouldn't change my opinion of him.

This is not the only place on the internet where knowledgeable fans discuss hockey. It's not the only place where there are people who have issues with Bylsma. It is, however, the only place I've seen where people complain about him ad nauseum until it's completely unbearable.

 

[Mo Wanchuk]

I think DB is well liked and appreciated by the majority of pens fans.

Hes just not liked by the majority of this board.

I dont think that is the case.. I am not from Pittsburgh, nor do I live in Pittsburgh so I could care less about the Steelers or Pirates. But I do NOT think DB is well liked universally from Pens fans.. He has some GLARING shortcomings as a coach.

 

[Lomez]

Des is Canadian so I'm not sure what he has to do with the US Olympic team.

You clearly have an issue with the Bylsma hate. How about you explain why you support him instead of just *****ing about people putting him down? There have been many arguments in this thread, and others, that explain why some don't like DB, but you just call it the HF hive mentality. If it's just hive mentality you should have no problem explaining why we're all wrong about DB.

I was mocking the knee-jerk response about Orpik/Despres one often sees on these boards (I was just trying to fit in ); hence the "oh wait."

I'm actually not a huge Bylsma supporter and find many of his decisions baffling and stubborn, regarding personnel matters, game day selections, and tactics.

Nonetheless, rather than the usual, predictable, boring stock analysis, I thought the OP asked a legitimate (and bold for these boards) question: why does everyone hate him so much when, given a couple superstars, a nutjob for a goalie, and a bunch of 5'2" AHL scrubs (thank you Ray Shero, ah, but that's another thread), does the team continue to win (yes, I know, playoff meltdowns, only one Cup, which was Therrien's, etc). You know, something new.

And in fact, given but a couple superstars, a nutjob for a goalie, and a bunch of 5'2" AHL scrubs, what does everyone expect to happen? It's hardly a recipe for Stanley Cups.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

This is not the only place on the internet where knowledgeable fans discuss hockey. It's not the only place where there are people who have issues with Bylsma. It is, however, the only place I've seen where people complain about him ad nauseum until it's completely unbearable.

So that makes him a good coach?

 

[Fordy]

@Mondello, I'm referring specifically to the OP

 

[gordie]

I'll answer this thread by a Bylsma Quote in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette Today on why Despres was Demoted. Quoting Bylsma because "If he was in the top six ...." but he seems to have no problem finding Top 6 ice time in Critical Games for Derek Engelland though.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I was mocking the knee-jerk response about Orpik/Despres one often sees on these boards (I was just trying to fit in ); hence the "oh wait."

I'm actually not a huge Bylsma supporter and find many of his decisions baffling and stubborn, regarding personnel matters, game day selections, and tactics.

Nonetheless, rather than the usual, predictable, boring stock analysis, I thought the OP asked a legitimate (and bold for these boards) question: why does everyone hate him so much when, given a couple superstars, a nutjob for a goalie, and a bunch of 5'2" AHL scrubs (thank you Ray Shero, ah, but that's another thread), does the team continue to win (yes, I know, playoff meltdowns, only one Cup, which was Therrien's, etc). You know, something new.

And in fact, given but a couple superstars, a nutjob for a goalie, and a bunch of 5'2" AHL scrubs, what does everyone expect to happen? It's hardly a recipe for Stanley Cups.

What are you talking about? Last year Shero put together one of the best rosters a coach could ask for and DB ****ed it up saying he had too many options.

 

[Dying Alive]

So that makes him a good coach?

I have no idea how you took that as my meaning from what I said.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

Let's look at the theory that DB overplays his "teachers pets", Glass, Adams, and Engo.

Glass and Adams are last among every single Penguins player this year (including the AHL call ups) in even strength ice time per game at just under 10 ES minutes per game.
Their total ice time seems inflated because they have a significant role on the PK. Considering the PK is among the league's best, you can't really complain about that.

Engo is last among all Pens Dmen this year (including AHL call ups) in ES (12 min) and total ice time at just over 13 minutes per game. This is almost 2 full minutes less than the 2nd lowest guy, Samuelsson.

Considering all the injuries this season, these certainly do not look like inflated minutes carelessly given out to a teacher's pet.

 

[Lomez]

What are you talking about? Last year Shero put together one of the best rosters a coach could ask for and DB ****ed it up saying he had too many options.

C'mon, stay with me. I'm a huge Shero fan, but that's not the point. I'm speaking in generalities and board-speak.

But, since you asked, not sure, given the speed at which the top two lines play, that the guys Shero signed were the "right" guys. Those moves were a little EA Sportish for me--didn't surprise me a bit they didn't clique. I think the fact Jarome couldn't really skate with Sid was as important in him not being a factor as him playing on his off wing.

 

[Lomez]

@Mondello, I'm referring specifically to the OP

No worries. Still not nice

 

[penguins2946*]

I'll answer this thread by a Bylsma Quote in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette Today on why Despres was Demoted. Quoting Bylsma because "If he was in the top six ...." but he seems to have no problem finding Top 6 ice time in Critical Games for Derek Engelland though.

Engelland barely plays in the top-6 anymore. He's our 8th D.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

As far as the playoffs go, my opinion is that the Penguins, as a team, under performed in the Flyers series.

2010: noticeably outplayed Montreal in round 2, but Fleury was awful and Halak was a wall. Can't blame DB.
2011: The team played lights out against the Lightning. However, no Sid and Geno = no goals. DB and Fleury were the only reason the team got to game 7.
2012: team wide collapse against Philly. No argument from me.
2013: Fleury was shaky, DB stuck with Vokoun ever after. Pens played as good, or better, in 3 of the 4 games against Boston. I can't really blame DB for this one, however, something is definitely wrong if the #1 offense scored 2 goals in 4 games. Still, you don't punish a coach for reaching the conference finals.

You have to wonder how many more series wins the Pens would have had if not for Fleury collapses in 2010 and 2012. And coincidentally, much of this DB hate wouldn't exist.

 

[yankeesdynsty*]

Pittsburgh fans love to trash coaches, quarterbacks, and goalies (not necessarily in that order)...and this is coming from a lifelong Pittsburgher.

All Bylsma does is win. Anything short of a cup is a fail?
Over the years, all the decimating injuries, and all this team has done is win.

"Fans" get so spoiled. Because you win a cup in '09 doesn't guarantee any repeats.
Julien hasn't won in 2 years...does he suck?
Babcock hasn't won since '08...does he suck?

I'm all for 2nd guessing a decision here, or a lineup there....but some of the vitriol and blind hate towards Coach Bylsma baffles me. I think we are so blessed to have the talent we have, coaches and players alike, and that we have had for so many years.
We have been absolutely blessed to watch the teams we have had, and enjoy the overall success we have had.

OK...flame away...I'm done.
Sorry...I just don't get it

Hope you read a lot of the comments about this thread & understand the Bylsma hate. I agree, yes he wins, but he needs to stop playing favorites with players & just coach. Win from the start of the season all the way through the end of the playoffs, don't be soft.

 

[WhatsaMaatta]

C'mon, stay with me. I'm a huge Shero fan, but that's not the point. I'm speaking in generalities and board-speak.

But, since you asked, not sure, given the speed at which the top two lines play, that the guys Shero signed were the "right" guys. Those moves were a little EA Sportish for me--didn't surprise me a bit they didn't clique. I think the fact Jarome couldn't really skate with Sid was as important in him not being a factor as him playing on his off wing.

Guerin wasn't the greatest skater, either. Sid has played with many players who aren't terrific skaters. Moving Dupuis to the 3rd line was such a no-brainer to me. It made the 3rd line better and gave Sid a scoring winger.