Realistically, Which Calibre Of Centre Will Matthews Become?

[mattydamon]

because if Matthews was producing like Malkin against better competition and without getting way more powerplay time on a unit with Sidney Crosby, he'd be better than Malkin

If you are arguing he won't produce as much as Malkin but will be as good as Malkin - don't you see the inconsistency?

My own hot take would be Yzerman/Sakic level, franchise players with good teams that are perennial contenders.

 

[biotk]

he had 102 points in his second year, so....
dont argue draft year because he was drafted 15th, also back then players didn't play right away usually

Players were actually far more likely to play right away back then. But thanks for playing.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

If you are arguing he won't produce as much as Malkin but will be as good as Malkin - don't you see the inconsistency?

My own hot take would be Yzerman/Sakic level, franchise players with good teams that are perennial contenders.

only if you assume that Malkin would produce like Malkin if he got 2 minutes of PP time a game on a lesser PP unit and against tougher competition at 5v5

 

[PunkRockLocke]

The Perreault/Savard/Hawerchuk/Modano tier you listed

 

[daver]

only if you assume that Malkin would produce like Malkin if he got 2 minutes of PP time a game on a lesser PP unit and against tougher competition at 5v5

You know that Malkin's best season was when Crosby only played 22 games right? He was also lights out on 07/08 when Crosby was injured.

Malkin's #'s speak for themselves.

 

[Plural]

Players were actually far more likely to play right away back then. But thanks for playing.

Really? That's interesting. Would have guessed the other way around.

 

[Plural]

only if you assume that Malkin would produce like Malkin if he got 2 minutes of PP time a game on a lesser PP unit and against tougher competition at 5v5

Geno had 109 points in 75 games when Crosby only played 22 games. I remember watching him that season and as much as I like Auston he probably never hits that level. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

because if Matthews was producing like Malkin against better competition and without getting way more powerplay time on a unit with Sidney Crosby, he'd be better than Malkin

So what's your expectation for him, then? If he's supposed to be the second best player in hockey, shouldn't he produce like the second best player in hockey?

It just seems like some Leaf fans are hedging their bets so they're "right" no matter what happens. If Matthews has a breakout season and scores 100 points, they'll crow "See! We told you so!", but if he finishes at 82 points and 15th in league scoring, they can still say "Well, ice time and all that".

 

[Paperbagofglory]

If Matthews is as good as leafs fans advertise does that mean hes now the #1 centre on the team? If so then you should be worried because the #2 centre on the team makes around 11 million dollars. That could be a problem next season.

I would make it my best effort to convince the hockey world that hes not yet ready for the #1 mantle. Otherwise his agent might start believing the hype too.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Geno had 109 points in 75 games when Crosby only played 22 games. I remember watching him that season and as much as I like Auston he probably never hits that level. I hope I'm wrong.

that's fair, but I was interpreting the question as career impact rather than peak impact. I don't think Matthews will ever get to 11/12 Malkin, but he might have a comparable impact overall in his career depending on how he progresses

 

[Plural]

that's fair, but I was interpreting the question as career impact rather than peak impact. I don't think Matthews will ever get to 11/12 Malkin, but he might have a comparable impact overall in his career depending on how he progresses

I could see it. Malkin has had some serious injury issues. I probably would bet against it, but I'm not comfortable saying it can't happen.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

that's fair, but I was interpreting the question as career impact rather than peak impact. I don't think Matthews will ever get to 11/12 Malkin, but he might have a comparable impact overall in his career depending on how he progresses

Usually players who have a comparable career to the greats also have some comparable peak years. This is just a long winded way of saying that Matthews will be no where near as good as Malkin. And I agree with you.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Why do you do assuming that I am assuming anything about Matthews?

I responded to a post by someone saying that 60 point players don't become Joe Sakic - with the fact that Matthews outproduced Sakic entering their D+3, despite Sakic starting in a much higher scoring era.

If I am comparing a young players to others, especially others from different era, age definitely comes into consideration.

Matthews was 2nd in goals as a D+1. 20th in points.
Matthews was on pace for 2nd in goals as a D+2, 19th in points.

Yzerman was 25th in goals, 26th in points as a D+1
He was 49th in goals, 25th in points in a D+2

Sakic only played as a D+2 - 90th in goals, 79th in points.

Malkin didn't play until his D+3 - 27th in goals, 18th in points.

Forsberg didn't play until his D+4.

Maybe, he will end up like Nash, but as of right now he does damn well in comparisons with those 4. You can not like it all you want, but you will simply be wrong.

It's funny how people are ok throwing McDavid at Crosby-level for equaling his first three seasons. But putting Matthews with Sakic and Yzerman despite comfortably besting their first two seasons is blasphemous.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

So what's your expectation for him, then? If he's supposed to be the second best player in hockey, shouldn't he produce like the second best player in hockey?

It just seems like some Leaf fans are hedging their bets so they're "right" no matter what happens. If Matthews has a breakout season and scores 100 points, they'll crow "See! We told you so!", but if he finishes at 82 points and 15th in league scoring, they can still say "Well, ice time and all that".

because ice time still matters. Production is production, even if you add the extra context. Fortunately, it looks like Matthews is going to get a lot more PP time and on a stacked unit, so he's caught up to other stars in that regard finally. I'd say about 90 points if healthy and Nylander comes back soon

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

because ice time still matters. Production is production, even if you add the extra context. Fortunately, it looks like Matthews is going to get a lot more PP time and on a stacked unit, so he's caught up to other stars in that regard finally. I'd say about 90 points if healthy and Nylander comes back soon

So then what would make Matthews "McDavid's Malkin" if not for production/challenging for awards?

I'm just trying to connect the two thoughts here. That poster I quoted called him McDavid's Malkin, but also talked about point per game being an acceptable minimum. IMO, those two points contradict because you don't expect the second best player in hockey to only hover around a point per game.

 

[Plural]

because ice time still matters. Production is production, even if you add the extra context. Fortunately, it looks like Matthews is going to get a lot more PP time and on a stacked unit, so he's caught up to other stars in that regard finally. I'd say about 90 points if healthy and Nylander comes back soon

I'm really excited to see how Tavares-Matthews punch works out. I'm expecting 80+ points for both.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

It's funny how people are ok throwing McDavid at Crosby-level for equaling his first three seasons. But putting Matthews with Sakic and Yzerman despite comfortably besting their first two seasons is blasphemous.

Because Mcdavid like Crosby is generational. They were 100 point superstars the minute they hit the ice. Matthews becoming a Sakic/Yzerman is pure projection at this point.

 

[Bonzo111]

I'm really excited to see how Tavares-Matthews punch works out. I'm expecting 80+ points for both.

Matthews need his buddy Slick Willie back! He'll be stuck with Ennis and Marleau

 

[3074326]

I think he'll be a little behind Malkin. Top 10 center overall.

 

[nbwingsfan]

This is all false. None of them peaked in their 2nd season.

You could argue Crosby/Malkin did, especially Crosby

 

[biotk]

If Matthews is as good as leafs fans advertise does that mean hes now the #1 centre on the team? If so then you should be worried because the #2 centre on the team makes around 11 million dollars. That could be a problem next season.

I would make it my best effort to convince the hockey world that hes not yet ready for the #1 mantle. Otherwise his agent might start believing the hype too.

Matthews is the best centre on the Leafs. His agent is not going to be fooled by an internet campaign.

 

[LeafsNation75]

So then what would make Matthews "McDavid's Malkin" if not for production/challenging for awards?

I'm just trying to connect the two thoughts here. That poster I quoted called him McDavid's Malkin, but also talked about point per game being an acceptable minimum. IMO, those two points contradict because you don't expect the second best player in hockey to only hover around a point per game.

Maybe it's possible some people say Matthews is similar to Malkin because they see the Matthews/Tavares combination just like the Crosby/Malkin combination on the Penguins. How many teams have the centre depth compared to them?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Maybe it's possible some people say Matthews is similar to Malkin because they see the Matthews/Tavares combination just like the Crosby/Malkin combination on the Penguins. How many teams have the centre depth compared to them?

But that's not the context that poster I quoted was using. He didn't refer to Matthews as "Crosby's Malkin", which could also imply a teammate duo at least. He specifically said "McDavid's Malkin", which implies the second best player in hockey after McDavid, like people viewed Malkin after Crosby.

 

[Chips]

As hyped as Gretzky

 

[Bonzo111]

You could argue Crosby/Malkin did, especially Crosby

no way

crosby went on to perfect his face off technique, 2 way play, goal scoring etc. Who cares anyhow