Realistically, Which Calibre Of Centre Will Matthews Become?

[ACC1224]

Mcdavid? Crosby? Ovechkin? Malkin? Gretzky, Lemieux? Orr?

Should i go on?

You may want to look up the definition of "peaked".
I'd be surprised if any of those players "peaked" in their 2nd season.

 

[abo9]

He's gonna be a very good player! Production-wise I think closer to Kopitar, Eric Staal, etc. than Malkin (career-wise a bit under a point per game). He looks like he can be the second best center of his generation though but I wonder if its gonna be a concensus like Malkin or if someone will come and challenge him in future drafts or even some budding prospects.

 

[Bonzo111]

You may want to look up the definition of "peaked".
I'd be surprised if any of those players "peaked" in their 2nd season.

I had to do a triple take on that post

 

[Paperbagofglory]

the heck are you talking about lol?

I am saying players that reached their best or what could be considered close to their best had amazing league leading numbers in just their second season even though they still had room to get better. People argue about Matthews being this top tier generational player but he still finished way below for points and league dominance in general and its his third season.

I don't see this supposed dominance and projections to be as good as all time greats who transformed their teams from joke to contenders in a very short time. Sakic basically held the Nordiques together from being a joke. Matthews needs a lot of support and hes not a leader type which also defines greatness.

 

[ACC1224]

I had to do a triple take on that post

have a feeling I'm going to regret replying to that.

 

[Paperbagofglory]

I had to do a triple take on that post

Yeah its much more realistic to say that a 60 point player will become the next Sakic. Hot takes all around.

 

[Bonzo111]

I am saying players that reached their best or what could be considered their peak had amazing league leading numbers in just their second season. People argue about Matthews being this top tier generational player but he still finished way below for points and league dominance in general and its his third season.

I don't see this supposed dominance and projections to be as good as all time greats who transformed their teams from joke to contenders in a very short time. Sakic basically held the Nordiques together from being a joke. Matthews needs a lot of support and hes not a leader type which also defines greatness.

This is all false. None of them peaked in their 2nd season.

 

[blankall]

Giroux/Kopitar/Lecavalier level

This is correct.

I honestly don't see Matthews winning multiple Art Ross trophies. It's just too competitive right now. He'd require McDavid to be injured, and then he has to deal with Kucherov, MacKinnon, Hall, etc... There were 20 players with 82 or more points last year. Matthews is good, but not separate himself form the pack good, the way McDavid is.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

One of the best two-way centers. Will play 1200-1400 career games, will score 850-1000 career points.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Competing with Barkov and maybe Eichel as the number 2 center of his generation.

What about MacKinnon?

 

[dr robbie]

personally, I see him falling around the Tavares/Stamkos level. Consistently one of the best in the league, but a definite gap from the top tier.

 

[Paperbagofglory]

This is all false. None of them peaked in their 2nd season.

Call it what you want if it helps you sleep at night, they were still at the top of the league either top 5 or top 10 in statistical categories and were dominant right off the bat. Their peaks were not that much higher compared to the rest of their seasons, Gretzky and Lemieux being the exceptions of course as they had an even higher level in their prime. But Crosby and Ovie were very consistent with their numbers from the start, Crosby had that crazy goal scoring season that he was not able to repeat, 51 goals early in his career and 44 recently but the numbers were very similar all across the board from his early years.

What would you call a 120 point second season that he did not repeat? That was his peak dummy.

 

[LT]

Like Patrick Kane, but as a center.

 

[biotk]

Yeah its much more realistic to say that a 60 point player will become the next Sakic. Hot takes all around.

Going into his D+3 Joe Sakic had never topped 62 points, yet he became Joe Sakic.

 

[Schenn]

What about MacKinnon?

Him too. I don't know how I forgot about him considering he is one of my favourite players in the league.

 

[Paperbagofglory]

Going into his D+3 Joe Sakic had never topped 62 points, yet he became Joe Sakic.

Sakic also had to drag around a terrible team with minimal support. Matthews has the luxury of being surrounded by good vets and good talent as well as superior coaching. Where is the dominance?

 

[Kshahdoo]

Sundin like - will be very good, but never win anything.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Like I've said for a long time, Malkin.

Matthews even strength production is already at the same level as Malkin's when he was winning and challenging for scoring titles.

The only real difference is the 5+ minutes of PP time a game that Malkin used to get.

I don't think you can just assume that extra PP time means significantly more production. If he's out there for 2 mins on each pp, it's possible he doesn't push as hard at ES. At the end of the day his production is what it is. For him to be comparable to Malkin he will have to put up multiple 100 point seasons and win multiple art rosses. To say he's already comparable to peak Malkin when he's never broken 70 points is laughable.

 

[GlitchMarner]

He realistically might become exactly what he actually is.

Long-term.

 

[biotk]

Sakic also had to drag around a terrible team with minimal support. Matthews has the luxury of being surrounded by good vets and good talent as well as superior coaching. Where is the dominance?

Matthews led his team in points in his D+1, won the Calder, was second in the league in goals and did it playing between 3 rookie linemates (Hyman, Nylander and Brown). Easily led his team in PPG in his D+2 and was second in the league in GPG. Sakic didn't play in his D+1. In his D+2 he was 5th on his team in points. He played with HOFers Stastny and Goulet FFS.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Sundin like - will be very good, but never win anything.

I'd say stickhandles better than Sundin and shoots equally well (though he doesn't have the slapshot Sundin had and doesn't shoot as often on his backhand). If he develops his playmaking more, he should be better.

He's tracking to be better, but Sundin had a big third season. We'll see if Matthews can match it.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

The great Jeff Carter? No chance he becomes as good as the legend Jeff Carter, think more like Sam Gagner.

That spots reserved Mitch

 

[Paperbagofglory]

Matthews led his team in points in his D+1, won the Calder, was second in the league in goals and did it playing between 3 rookie linemates (Hyman, Nylander and Brown). Easily led his team in PPG in his D+2 and was second in the league in GPG. Sakic didn't play in his D+1. In his D+2 he was 5th on his team in points. He played with HOFers Stastny and Goulet FFS.

Stastny and Goulet during the end of their careers mind you. Stasny's final two years in Quebec, and the final year was abysmal before he left for New Jersey and was a shadow of his former self. Same exact story with Goulet, final 2 years were terrible before leaving for Chicago.

Veterans yes, good? debatable at that point.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Will he fall into that Dionne/Trottier/Yzerman/Sakic/Forsberg/Malkin tier?

Using your scale, I think he has the potential to hit the above tier, providing he stays healthy and Toronto continues to be a competitive team throughout his tenure.

 

[biotk]

Stastny and Goulet during the end of their careers mind you. Stasny's final two years in Quebec, and the final year was abysmal before he left for New Jersey and was a shadow of his former self. Same exact story with Goulet, final 2 years were terrible before leaving for Chicago.

Veterans yes, good? debatable at that point.

Vets good enough to exceed him in points during Sakic's D+2. Stastny was 32 and still producing at 1.2 PPG. Goulet was 28. Matthews has played with no one like that. Marleau joined the team at 38 for Matthews' D+2. But Matthews, unlike Sakic, has played with good vets, right?