Realistically, Which Calibre Of Centre Will Matthews Become?

[Luigi Lemieux]

Going into his D+3 Joe Sakic had never topped 62 points, yet he became Joe Sakic.

And Rick Nash was a 41 goal rocket winner at 19, and that ended up being the highlight of his career. Why assume Matthews will become Sakic/Forsberg/Malkin/Yzerman? Matthews' accolades are definitely a case of putting the cart before the horse. Imo he still needs to prove himself with multiple full elite seasons before i would ever compare him to those guys.

 

[Paperbagofglory]

Vets good enough to exceed him in points during Sakic's D+2. Matthews has played with no one like that. But Matthews, unlike Sakic, has played with good vets, right?

I would call Marleau an excellent vet, i would call the leafs coaching staff superior to most teams, i would call their foward depth at the top of the league, i would call their goaltending excellent. All recipes to have a better second season then a first, yet he didn't. Ok injuries are a valid excuse but the pitiful performance in the playoffs is a valid criticism. I will be the first one to say i have been proven wrong if he improves a lot more this season, and its very possible. But i see a very ordinary star with not much bite to his game, i don't see a leader there, i see tier 1 superstar as a ceiling and tier 2 as a floor, tier one not meaning comparable to the legends of the game, but comparable to the stars of today such as Seguin and Benn.

People are going to be very disappointed if they keep upping the expectations and he does not answer the bell, that's a lot of pressure on a young star. He does not scream dynamic, hes a soft player for his body type, hes not good when it comes to physical play which is needed in the playoffs. There is just as much alarm bells as their are positive signs, it could go either way but i am going to lean towards the great but not all time great player category.

 

[JetsHomer]

Kopitar has 7 70+ point seasons.

Matthews has 0

 

[Kamiccolo]

Matthews gets underrated on here because people talk about him so much. At 21 he is already a PPG 40 goal scoring stud two way center. Only thing that will de-rail him is injuries.

He takes over games, and is already better than Tavares rather easily. Not sure what his point totals will be this year but PPG is the minimum. He does so much more than scoring though that it bugs me to see people comparing stat lines to say someone is better than another.

Very easily will be McDavid's Malkin.

 

[joe dirte]

He will be the second best center in the league but not at malkin's level.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Matthews gets underrated on here because people talk about him so much. At 21 he is already a PPG 40 goal scoring stud two way center. Only thing that will de-rail him is injuries.

He takes over games, and is already better than Tavares rather easily. Not sure what his point totals will be this year but PPG is the minimum. He does so much more than scoring though that it bugs me to see people comparing stat lines to say someone is better than another.

Very easily will be McDavid's Malkin.

With all that praise, you're setting a low bar. If he's as good as you claim (and maybe he will be), then shouldn't you be going out on a limb and predicting near 100 points or threatening for the Art Ross? Being point per game is hardly impressive for a guy you consider "McDavid's Malkin".

 

[joe dirte]

Are you being serious or are you trolling everyone with that type of a response? At the very least Matthews is a 1st line elite level centre without having to be compared with anyone else.

RELAX.

 

[joe dirte]

With all that praise, you're setting a low bar. If he's as good as you claim (and maybe he will be), then shouldn't you be going out on a limb and predicting near 100 points or threatening for the Art Ross? Being point per game is hardly impressive for a guy you consider "McDavid's Malkin".

Okay. I predict he gets 45 goals and 90 plus points this year. He will hit around 100 but maybe a few short. My guess is high 90s this year.

 

[Kamiccolo]

With all that praise, you're setting a low bar. If he's as good as you claim (and maybe he will be), then shouldn't you be going out on a limb and predicting near 100 points or threatening for the Art Ross? Being point per game is hardly impressive for a guy you consider "McDavid's Malkin".

No because as it has been stated a thousand times on here, he doesn't get the minutes other guys get. Matthews, Tavares, and Kadri all split the minutes at center for the most part. Sure, this year he will get first PP minutes for the first time so that should help, but none of the Toronto guys will have the points they would if they got fed the minutes other stars get. A symptom of a deep offense.

But alas if I only got my approval of the Leafs from HF mains I would assume they were terrible. We've been hearing how over rated these guys are for 2 years now and they have proven everyone wrong both times.

Leafs once again will surprise people this year and at the end of the year people will pretend that no one said the things they did... and then ignore the threads posted that prove they were said.

 

[Tofveve]

I'm curious what does McDavid has to do to make you a believer? Not trying to be a d!ck here, genuinely just being curious.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's very good. I just mean more in the conversation as being one of the GOATS (lets say top 50 of all time or something like that). And again, I felt the same about Crosby.

I think for me it's just a time thing and then for some red pill that clicks. I somehow don't feel the same dominance coming from him that I do of others. Blazing speed and very good, but the red pill hasn't come along for me yet.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

No because as it has been stated a thousand times on here, he doesn't get the minutes other guys get. Matthews, Tavares, and Kadri all split the minutes at center for the most part. Sure, this year he will get first PP minutes for the first time so that should help, but none of the Toronto guys will have the points they would if they got fed the minutes other stars get. A symptom of a deep offense.

But alas if I only got my approval of the Leafs from HF mains I would assume they were terrible. We've been hearing how over rated these guys are for 2 years now and they have proven everyone wrong both times.

Leafs once again will surprise people this year and at the end of the year people will pretend that no one said the things they did... and then ignore the threads posted that prove they were said.

So he's going to be McDavid's Malkin but without actually producing like McDavid's Malkin?

It also seems to be a double standard. When Leaf fans talk about Tavares, they talk about how he's going to set career highs because of the talent he gets to play with now. Yet when they talk about Matthews, they talk about how his offense will be HINDERED because of the depth around him and him not getting enough minutes.

So Tavares is going to set career highs because of how talented the Leafs are but Matthews can't be expected to challenge for the Art Ross because of how talented the Leafs are?

 

[joe dirte]

Please explain how tavares is a tier above Giroux? Giroux has been the better player since day one, much better defensively and outscored him all but 2 seasons together.

Not really.

You've got such a hard on for Giroux. Yeah he had a great year but he's soft and didn't really show up for 3 seasons before last. He will probably go right back to a 60 point player this year.

 

[Tofveve]

Off the top of my head, and I hope he's more than this player was, but he reminds me of a Sundin (as others have also mentioned). Again, I hope he rises to a higher level and wins a cup too, but I see a fairly close comparison there, but maybe with a little more skill.

 

[biotk]

And Rick Nash was a 41 goal rocket winner at 19, and that ended up being the highlight of his career. Why assume Matthews will become Sakic/Forsberg/Malkin/Yzerman? Matthews' accolades are definitely a case of putting the cart before the horse. Imo he still needs to prove himself with multiple full elite seasons before i would ever compare him to those guys.

Why do you do assuming that I am assuming anything about Matthews?

I responded to a post by someone saying that 60 point players don't become Joe Sakic - with the fact that Matthews outproduced Sakic entering their D+3, despite Sakic starting in a much higher scoring era.

If I am comparing a young players to others, especially others from different era, age definitely comes into consideration.

Matthews was 2nd in goals as a D+1. 20th in points.
Matthews was on pace for 2nd in goals as a D+2, 19th in points.

Yzerman was 25th in goals, 26th in points as a D+1
He was 49th in goals, 25th in points in a D+2

Sakic only played as a D+2 - 90th in goals, 79th in points.

Malkin didn't play until his D+3 - 27th in goals, 18th in points.

Forsberg didn't play until his D+4.

Maybe, he will end up like Nash, but as of right now he does damn well in comparisons with those 4. You can not like it all you want, but you will simply be wrong.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Matthews will never reach Crosby/Malkin/Mcdavid level. He will be a great player but more of a top 10 player in the league than the actual best. He is definitely overrated

 

[joe dirte]

Yeah its much more realistic to say that a 60 point player will become the next Sakic. Hot takes all around.

Correct. Hot takes.

 

[Kamiccolo]

So he's going to be McDavid's Malkin but without actually producing like McDavid's Malkin?

It also seems to be a double standard. When Leaf fans talk about Tavares, they talk about how he's going to set career highs because of the talent he gets to play with now. Yet when they talk about Matthews, they talk about how his offense will be HINDERED because of the depth around him and him not getting enough minutes.

So Tavares is going to set career highs because of how talented the Leafs are but Matthews can't be expected to challenge for the Art Ross because of how talented the Leafs are?

It's almost as if.. Leaf fans are not one collective being and different people can have different expectations and opinions. Either way not dealing with you today sorry man just not feeling like having a petty argument with one of the usual suspects.

 

[McYoungGuns]

Going into his D+3 Joe Sakic had never topped 62 points, yet he became Joe Sakic.

he had 102 points in his second year, so....
dont argue draft year because he was drafted 15th, also back then players didn't play right away usually

 

[LABound]

Stamkos -Toews


Lovechild

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Matthews will never win a hart or art ross

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It's almost as if.. Leaf fans are not one collective being and different people can have different expectations and opinions. Either way not dealing with you today sorry man just not feeling like having a petty argument with one of the usual suspects.

Why do you take things so personal? I asked why you praised Matthews to high Heaven, but refuse to actually put expectations on him to reach those levels. It's not a "petty argument". It's asking why your praise of him doesn't match your projections for how he'll actually produce.

All I'm saying is if you're going to say he's going to be McDavid's Malkin, then you can't then find excuses for why a point per game season is fine for him. If he's going to be considered the second best player in hockey, he should produce like it.

 

[Subbanned]

Malkin to McDavid's Crosby, relatively speaking. That is, there may be a season or two where injuries render McDavid a bit less effective or everything goes perfectly for Matthews and he has a better singular season.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Why do you take things so personal? I asked why you praised Matthews to high Heaven, but refuse to actually put expectations on him to reach those levels. It's not a "petty argument". It's asking why your praise of him doesn't match your projections for how he'll actually produce.

All I'm saying is if you're going to say he's going to be McDavid's Malkin, then you can't then find excuses for why a point per game season is fine for him. If he's going to be considered the second best player in hockey, he should produce like it.

because if Matthews was producing like Malkin against better competition and without getting way more powerplay time on a unit with Sidney Crosby, he'd be better than Malkin

 

[biotk]

I would call Marleau an excellent vet, i would call the leafs coaching staff superior to most teams, i would call their foward depth at the top of the league, i would call their goaltending excellent. All recipes to have a better second season then a first, yet he didn't. Ok injuries are a valid excuse but the pitiful performance in the playoffs is a valid criticism. I will be the first one to say i have been proven wrong if he improves a lot more this season, and its very possible. But i see a very ordinary star with not much bite to his game, i don't see a leader there, i see tier 1 superstar as a ceiling and tier 2 as a floor, tier one not meaning comparable to the legends of the game, but comparable to the stars of today such as Seguin and Benn.

People are going to be very disappointed if they keep upping the expectations and he does not answer the bell, that's a lot of pressure on a young star. He does not scream dynamic, hes a soft player for his body type, hes not good when it comes to physical play which is needed in the playoffs. There is just as much alarm bells as their are positive signs, it could go either way but i am going to lean towards the great but not all time great player category.

47 point, 38 year old = excellent vet. 85 point, 32 year-old and 64 point 28 year-old, both a year removed from 45+ goal and 100+ point seasons = not good vets. Got it. You are brilliant.

0.83 PPG to 1.02 PPG (while playing hurt for much of the season) = not improving.

Going into the toughest areas of the ice at both ends, blocking the 3rd most shots/game among forwards at ES, and taking more hits than any other young star because he goes into those areas (despite playing hurt for much of the season) = soft, because he should be taking himself out of position to throw a bunch of hits like a moron.

Having a bad playoff because he was shut down by Chara (who also completely shut down Marner, Stamkos and Kucherov when they were on the ice, but he played against Matthews much more), despite actually having the highest xGF among forwards for the first round, and having the most shots on net - indicating that he had a string of terrible puck luck, which happens to everyone, and he had a very good playoff the year before. = alarm bells.

 

[Bonzo111]

have a feeling I'm going to regret replying to that.

Samezies. My lord