Realistically, how do you fix this team

[letsgrowcactus]

I think the question needs to be asked whether this core (Barkov, Huberdeau, Ekblad) really is good enough to contend. It doesn't matter how good the supporting pieces are if the core isn't good enough. We've heard for so long about their potential but we have yet to see results in the postseason. They may win individual awards and put up a lot of points but they don't consistently show the ability to elevate their play or the ability to take over games when games tighten up in March and April. Unfortunately, I think our only hope is that they figure it out because hockey in South Florida is unlikely to survive a third consecutive rebuild.

I think they are if the support cast is good enough, if they're motivated and if all three are healthy.
Barkov is the guy that worries me somewhat re: health. Seems like every other year he's battling some issue, usually not enough to keep him out of the lineup but still affecting his play. Last year was the first time in his NHL career that he played all 82 games - that's one out of seven seasons with no games missed.

Also, as much as I hated the signing, it would be nice if our highest paid guy bounced back big next year and we could say "our core of Barkov, Ekblad, Bobrovski and Huberdeau"...

 

[MintyFresh88]

Does anyone know if Tallon provided any insight on Hoffman/Dadonov/free agency in his interview with GR yesterday?

 

[violaswallet]

Does anyone know if Tallon provided any insight on Hoffman/Dadonov/free agency in his interview with GR yesterday?

DT said he doesn't know whether Hoffman/Dady/Haul wants to come back...

 

[MintyFresh88]

DT said he doesn't know whether Hoffman/Dady/Haul wants to come back...

So, I take it there haven't been any discussions with agents as of yet, then.

 

[FrolikFan67]

Tippett and Denisenko could both realistically make it. Tippett Id imagine for sure, and still a solid chance for Denisenko. If that’s the case then we’d have:

Huberdeau, Tippett, Denisenko, Connolly, Vatrano, and Acciari as our wingers in the top-9. That means we could potentially not even bring back either of Hoffman or dadonov. If we do bring back one, acciari could slot back to Center (although I do slightly like him as a winger more).

If we don’t bring back either we could use that money on figuring out 2nd and 3rd line centers, along with defense (since even trading Yandle and matheson would most likely require us taking money back, not enough teams have enough cap room to just acquire them for picks/prospects). And having Tippett and Denisenko, both elc’s, along with Connolly, acciari, and vatrano on cheap deals, gives us room to acquire other needs.

I’m going to assume we don’t trade huberdeau, but if they do I hope they acquire a 2nd line center and a solid top-4 D in the deal. Cover more than one base

Huberdeau-Barkov-Tippett
Denisenko-???-Connolly
Vatrano-???-Acciari

Weegar-Ekblad
???-???
Stillman-Stralman

 

[KW]

DT said he doesn't know whether Hoffman/Dady/Haul wants to come back...

I don’t want Haula, I’m ambivalent on Dadonov (depends on money) but Hoffman I’d like back (but depends on money).

In a way, trading Trocheck was a really key move. It told the team, don’t get too comfy. Almost anyone can be traded. Really, anyone CAN be traded but it’s hard to see a deal good enough for Barkov happening.

Anyhow, Trocheck opened the gates, and that’s good for the team. Longer term.

 

[CHGoalie27]

I don’t want Haula, I’m ambivalent on Dadonov (depends on money) but Hoffman I’d like back (but depends on money).

In a way, trading Trocheck was a really key move. It told the team, don’t get too comfy. Almost anyone can be traded. Really, anyone CAN be traded but it’s hard to see a deal good enough for Barkov happening.

Anyhow, Trocheck opened the gates, and that’s good for the team. Longer term.

 

[MintyFresh88]

Tippett and Denisenko could both realistically make it. Tippett Id imagine for sure, and still a solid chance for Denisenko. If that’s the case then we’d have:

Huberdeau, Tippett, Denisenko, Connolly, Vatrano, and Acciari as our wingers in the top-9. That means we could potentially not even bring back either of Hoffman or dadonov. If we do bring back one, acciari could slot back to Center (although I do slightly like him as a winger more).

If we don’t bring back either we could use that money on figuring out 2nd and 3rd line centers, along with defense (since even trading Yandle and matheson would most likely require us taking money back, not enough teams have enough cap room to just acquire them for picks/prospects). And having Tippett and Denisenko, both elc’s, along with Connolly, acciari, and vatrano on cheap deals, gives us room to acquire other needs.

I’m going to assume we don’t trade huberdeau, but if they do I hope they acquire a 2nd line center and a solid top-4 D in the deal. Cover more than one base

Huberdeau-Barkov-Tippett
Denisenko-???-Connolly
Vatrano-???-Acciari

Weegar-Ekblad
???-???
Stillman-Stralman

One step forward, two steps back. This lineup is worse than our current one AINEC. I understand that we need to incorporate prospects and young players into the lineup, but losing Dadonov and Hoffman (combined 246 pts over the last 2 seasons) and forcing Tippett and Denisenko into their spots makes us infinitely worse.

 

[pantherbot]

Tippett and Denisenko could both realistically make it. Tippett Id imagine for sure, and still a solid chance for Denisenko. If that’s the case then we’d have:

Huberdeau, Tippett, Denisenko, Connolly, Vatrano, and Acciari as our wingers in the top-9. That means we could potentially not even bring back either of Hoffman or dadonov. If we do bring back one, acciari could slot back to Center (although I do slightly like him as a winger more).

If we don’t bring back either we could use that money on figuring out 2nd and 3rd line centers, along with defense (since even trading Yandle and matheson would most likely require us taking money back, not enough teams have enough cap room to just acquire them for picks/prospects). And having Tippett and Denisenko, both elc’s, along with Connolly, acciari, and vatrano on cheap deals, gives us room to acquire other needs.

I’m going to assume we don’t trade huberdeau, but if they do I hope they acquire a 2nd line center and a solid top-4 D in the deal. Cover more than one base

Huberdeau-Barkov-Tippett
Denisenko-???-Connolly
Vatrano-???-Acciari

Weegar-Ekblad
???-???
Stillman-Stralman

Denisenko should not be playing in the NHL to start next season unless he completely blows the doors down. That's just asking for trouble.

 

[Prominence Problem]

Denisenko should not be playing in the NHL to start next season unless he completely blows the doors down. That's just asking for trouble.

If you layed a bet on this, with good odds, I would put some money on Denny possibly making the big Club to start the year.

• He has played in the KHL, which is the league for men.
• Two solid World Jr's

IMO, only thing he has to figure out is the NA culture. Right now he is possibly going to get an extended look at that before hockey.

 

[FrolikFan67]

One step forward, two steps back. This lineup is worse than our current one AINEC. I understand that we need to incorporate prospects and young players into the lineup, but losing Dadonov and Hoffman (combined 246 pts over the last 2 seasons) and forcing Tippett and Denisenko into their spots makes us infinitely worse.

To clarify, I’m not necessarily advocating for this lineup. I’m just saying this could very well may be something we see.

But I wouldn’t say we’d be infinitely worse. They could both have very successful rookie campaigns, and while neither will be on the Dadonov/Hoffman level, whatever drop off in production would be made up with a lot of cap to address D (our biggest priority) and 2nd line center. Depending on who that is on d and 2nd line center, we could potentially be better than we are now. A lottt of that is hypothetical. But possible. But if they both make it we could see something like this more realistically:

Huberdeau-Barkov-Dadonov
Connolly-???-Tippett
Denisenko-Acciari-Vatrano

 

[Dread Clawz]

If you layed a bet on this, with good odds, I would put some money on Denny possibly making the big Club to start the year.

• He has played in the KHL, which is the league for men.
• Two solid World Jr's

IMO, only thing he has to figure out is the NA culture. Right now he is possibly going to get an extended look at that before hockey.

Possibly. Denny has played in the khl, but he didn't play a lot there and was pushed around physically, so it's hard to believe that would change much in the nhl. There's no doubt he has the skills to succeed in the nhl. He has dominated against his peers, he's lit up the wjc the last two years, and he was Russia's captain this year
Basically, he just needs to put on 10-15 lbs. of muscle. He probably needs one more year of physical maturation and getting used to n.a. hockey in the A. If he comes into camp blowing everyone away, then that's great. But if not, no harm in him taking time to develop.

 

[pantherbot]

If you layed a bet on this, with good odds, I would put some money on Denny possibly making the big Club to start the year.

• He has played in the KHL, which is the league for men.
• Two solid World Jr's

IMO, only thing he has to figure out is the NA culture. Right now he is possibly going to get an extended look at that before hockey.

Oh I wouldn't be surprised to see him start with us given our history. I'm just saying he shouldn't be starting with us, barring some ridiculously good training camp. He needs to develop physically, adapt to North American game and lifestyle, learn English...that's a lot. He's only played 10-15 minutes a night in the KHL and has never played an 82 game season. It's obviously been done before and he has some great potential, but what's the rush?

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

One step forward, two steps back. This lineup is worse than our current one AINEC. I understand that we need to incorporate prospects and young players into the lineup, but losing Dadonov and Hoffman (combined 246 pts over the last 2 seasons) and forcing Tippett and Denisenko into their spots makes us infinitely worse.

I disagree. Like I agree in theory but Colton Sceviour is not the reason this team sucks. I hate Matheson but there's more wrong than him. Trocheck was a good start but this team needs a serious overhaul. Infinitely worse? Team is already pretty bad, neither Hoffman and Dadonov are defensive stalwarts, maybe new blood will actually backcheck.

 

[FrolikFan67]

Hoffman: on pace for 34g & 70pt
Dadonov: on pace for ~30g & ~56pt

Hoffman = 5.1875 per
Dadonov = 4.00 per
Total = 9.1875 per

both will get raises. I’m assuming absolute bare minimum would be 6per for Dadonov, most likely 6.5+per, and Hoffman more like 7-7.5per. Term may vary, but cap hit will most likely be in those rangers. 14ish to keep both, at least 6.5ish to keep one.

Denisenko and Tippett combine for 1.788 per for the next 3-yrs.

Tippett was considered one of the best goal scorers in the ohl, gets drafted 10th, plays out his two remaining years in the O, still one of the leagues best scorers and worked on his overall game, played spectacular for Canada at the world juniors, goes to play a full year of pro hockey in the AHL in his D+3 season, leads the team in goals and points and was named team mvp for the season. I won’t say he’ll light the world on fire, but especially if he were playing with Barkov and huberdeau and getting first line minutes and getting pp time. The kid would produce some.

denisenko was Russia’s captain, led Russia in the world juniors in points, and was ranked 2nd best prospect not currently in the nhl by craig button for the 2nd straight year. Has played pro for two seasons now, granted not a ton of ice time. Competes and plays with an edge. Could stand to gain a little more weight, but he could produce nicely depending on the situation he’s given here.

 

[ShootIt]

I'm assuming no team is eager to seriously talk deals till the cap is resolved for next year. Can see FAs taking one year deals in hopes 2022 will spike the cap back up for bigger deals

 

[Dread Clawz]

I'm assuming no team is eager to seriously talk deals till the cap is resolved for next year. Can see FAs taking one year deals in hopes 2022 will spike the cap back up for bigger deals

Yeah, teams have to see what the cap is first.

 

[MintyFresh88]

I disagree. Like I agree in theory but Colton Sceviour is not the reason this team sucks. I hate Matheson but there's more wrong than him. Trocheck was a good start but this team needs a serious overhaul. Infinitely worse? Team is already pretty bad, neither Hoffman and Dadonov are defensive stalwarts, maybe new blood will actually backcheck.

So, if the team is already pretty bad, it can't get worse?

I'm fully expecting at least one of Hoffman or Dadonov to walk. I don't have so much of an issue with Tippett jumping in for one of them as he seems to be ready. Denisenko is a different story. I'm as excited about him as everyone else, but throwing him into our top 6 right away would be a mistake. But, if it's either that or play for Kinnear in the AHL, I may be tempted to do it anyway.

You may be onto something about an overhaul and it could very well be that our team is too top heavy offensively and we need more responsible wingers. This could be why Quenneville started putting guys like Acciari and Pysyk in the top 6/9. I'm not sure how two offensive minded rookies will fix this though.

 

[FrolikFan67]

You may be onto something about an overhaul and it could very well be that our team is too top heavy offensively and we need more responsible wingers. This could be why Quenneville started putting guys like Acciari and Pysyk in the top 6/9. I'm not sure how two offensive minded rookies will fix this though.

well, I suppose it’d be more from the perspective that you replace the two offensive wingers with another two offensive wingers that can still produce, albeit not as much in all likelihood, and probably not better defensively (although it’s possible I suppose) but you’d have way more cap space to address other deficiencies, such as 2nd line center, possibly 3rd line center as well, and a top-4 defender. It would all be predicated on who the new recruits are.

Id personally like to keep one of dads/hoff, preferably Hoffman, but if he’s going to run us 7-7.5 per vs Dadonov if he’s 6-6.5per, I’d probably do Dadonov instead. Although with Tallon as the gm am extra mil probably won’t do us much good if he’s signing guys like bobrovsky to 10per and stralman to 5.5per. Just overall I’d like us to be more well rounded. We have BOTH Hoffman and Dadonov on top of Barkov and huberdeau, for two years now, and it hasn’t amounted to squat. Ultimately the team won’t succeed if the holes aren’t addressed, in which case it doesn’t matter who we have on offense. We won the division and made the playoffs with the first line of Weiss, fleischmann, and versteeg (if my memory is correct?), having Barkov one of the leagues best centers, and huberdeau one of the leagues best wingers, and having a rookie tag along, say Tippett, who’s a natural shooter and goal scorer who’s played 3 full seasons post draft including a year in the ahl and won team mvp, may not be as bad as it seems especially if we’re deeper everywhere else. Although I agree I’m not as sure on Denisenko right now because it’s hard to gauge him playing with his ice time in the khl.

 

[FrolikFan67]

Bored: what are your thoughts on offer sheeting serg from tb? With the assumption we move Yandle and matheson both. Or would you rather not pay upwards of 8per and focus on getting cheaper alternatives? Serg and Ekblad longterm, along with Weegar in the top-4. Id love the nab graves from Colorado but that’ll probably take Tippett or deni to pry

 

[MintyFresh88]

Bored: what are your thoughts on offer sheeting serg from tb? With the assumption we move Yandle and matheson both. Or would you rather not pay upwards of 8per and focus on getting cheaper alternatives? Serg and Ekblad longterm, along with Weegar in the top-4. Id love the nab graves from Colorado but that’ll probably take Tippett or deni to pry

Realistically, if the cap ends up being flat, it will make it even more difficult than it already is to move Yandle or Matheson. If we do find a way to move them, it will be tough to see it happening without salary coming back in some fashion to offset (or us retaining a portion). We'd have to target teams that are looking to add salary, which I don't think a lot will be eager to do. LA, Ottawa, and New Jersey are the best bets, but I don't see any of those teams being interested in Yandle. Matheson - maybe.

Worst case - we should have around $20 million of cap space to work with, even if we keep both. We definitely have some holes to fill and keeping Dads or Hoffman would likely eat up at least 1/3rd of that. Honestly, based on the financial impact of what's going on and the rumours already circling about us wanting to shed salary, my guess is we let both walk unless one takes a significant discount. We'll have to start inserting rookies into the lineup and just hope we find a way to get better defensively and better goaltending.

There were also rumours that we would be pursuing Hall in FA, but I don't see it unless Dads and Hoffman walk plus we shed salary elsewhere. I'd also rather just keep one of them at around $6-7 mill than pay Hall $9+ or whatever he's going to get.

 

[PanthersHockey1]

Realistically, if the cap ends up being flat, it will make it even more difficult than it already is to move Yandle or Matheson. If we do find a way to move them, it will be tough to see it happening without salary coming back in some fashion to offset (or us retaining a portion). We'd have to target teams that are looking to add salary, which I don't think a lot will be eager to do. LA, Ottawa, and New Jersey are the best bets, but I don't see any of those teams being interested in Yandle. Matheson - maybe.

Worst case - we should have around $20 million of cap space to work with, even if we keep both. We definitely have some holes to fill and keeping Dads or Hoffman would likely eat up at least 1/3rd of that. Honestly, based on the financial impact of what's going on and the rumours already circling about us wanting to shed salary, my guess is we let both walk unless one takes a significant discount. We'll have to start inserting rookies into the lineup and just hope we find a way to get better defensively and better goaltending.

There were also rumours that we would be pursuing Hall in FA, but I don't see it unless Dads and Hoffman walk plus we shed salary elsewhere. I'd also rather just keep one of them at around $6-7 mill than pay Hall $9+ or whatever he's going to get.

I'd be shocked if Hall ends up anywhere other than Calgary. I think we scored the 4th most goals in the nhl this year. We can easily afford to lose some offense so long as it means we actually gain some f***ing defense and goaltending.

 

[Gizmo Tkachuk]

What's to fix?

Sounds like we're making the playoffs

 

[Dread Clawz]

Bored: what are your thoughts on offer sheeting serg from tb? With the assumption we move Yandle and matheson both. Or would you rather not pay upwards of 8per and focus on getting cheaper alternatives? Serg and Ekblad longterm, along with Weegar in the top-4. Id love the nab graves from Colorado but that’ll probably take Tippett or deni to pry

I would never pay that much for Sergachev

 

[Dr Quincy]

Do you guys think Pysyk resigns? I can't imagine him getting the same numbers on his next contract but he did seem pretty useful as a W and that versatility is a plus.