Line Combos: (Realistically) Do we have 2 number 2 Centres?

[ShaneFalco]

The best shot we probably have is Stastny, IF he makes UFA and IF he'd even want to sign here

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Here's the top 30 scoring centers in the NHL last year:

Crosby: drafted
Getzlaf: drafted
Girouix: drafted
Seguin: trade
Pavelski: drafted
Backstrom: drafted
Malkin: drafted
Kopitar: drafted
Thornton: trade
Duchene: drafted
Krejci: drafted
Toews: drafted
Tavares: drafted
Spezza: drafted
O'Reilly: drafted
Little: drafted
Johanson: drafted
Mackinnon: drafted
Bergeron: drafted
Staal: drafted
Statsny: drafted
Turris: trade
Filppula: UFA
Nielson: drafted
Backes: drafted
Stepan: drafted
RNH: drafted
Couture: drafted
Hudler: UFA
Koivu: drafted

Seguin and Thornton are the only two legit #1 centers who were acquired via trade, and both were situation where the team had made a purposeful decision to trade them, and they weren't just responding to random offers of random pieces from desperate teams.

Teams don't trade #1 centers for bits and pieces. Doesn't happen.

If you want to trade for somebody elses #3 center and hope they'll improve, why don't you just keep Kadri?

Why don't you list the history of hockey's all-time center list? You'll see that Toronto traded for two hall of fame centres in the 90's.

Kadri doesn't have enough up side. Most grounded people would agree that Kadri's ceiling is 2nd line C.

You're asking me to come up with the solution. I'm just a fan. But in the realm of possibilities it's not impossible to trade for a 1C.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Why don't you list the history of hockey's all-time center list? You'll see that Toronto traded for two hall of fame centres in the 90's.

2 CBA's ago. No salary cap.

Kadri doesn't have enough up side. Most grounded people would agree that Kadri's ceiling is 2nd line C.

I wouldn't say that's his ceiling, but in all likelyhood, yeah, he'll probably be a #2 on a good team. That's basically what I've always thought of him.

You're asking me to come up with the solution. I'm just a fan. But in the realm of possibilities it's not impossible to trade for a 1C.

Nothing is impossible, but it's so unrealistic that if that's your plan, you need a better plan.

 

[Trapper]

always been interested in what kessel could net us in a trade. Like specific players.

Well Jeff Carter got Voracek,1st and a 3rd. Then he got Johnson and a 1st.
Nash got Dubinski,Anisimov,Erixon and a 1st(who became Kirby Rychel)
St. Louis got Callahan and a 1st.
If we could land an impact center and a 1st I'd put it out there.

 

[Wami]

Why don't you list the history of hockey's all-time center list? You'll see that Toronto traded for two hall of fame centres in the 90's.

Kadri doesn't have enough up side. Most grounded people would agree that Kadri's ceiling is 2nd line C.

You're asking me to come up with the solution. I'm just a fan. But in the realm of possibilities it's not impossible to trade for a 1C.

People who see more potential in Kadri than you do aren't grounded, nice.

Trading for 1 C's is just a hypothetical game that dreamers play. It doesn't happen. Meanwhile, your answer is to trade away our 23 y/o high first round center for a 3C on a good team with potential, in a league where all the best centers come from the draft.

I whip out the popcorn whenever you post.

 

[Trapper]

The best shot we probably have is Stastny, IF he makes UFA and IF he'd even want to sign here

Play with Landy and MacKinnon or Lupul and Clarkson. Tough choice.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

2 CBA's ago. No salary cap.



I wouldn't say that's his ceiling, but in all likelyhood, yeah, he'll probably be a #2 on a good team. That's basically what I've always thought of him.



Nothing is impossible, but it's so unrealistic that if that's your plan, you need a better plan.

I don't need a plan. Nonis and Shanny do!

They're not here on this board argueing with fanatics, people who are nostalgic, people who have Kadri jerseys, people who have serious hockey pools to win. They are ignoring the emotions. They get paid to make it happen. They're the ones who are taking phone calls and meeting scouts who know of players beyond your NHL 14 roster data base. Things change and I hope they bring it sooner than later. I would hope they didn't care about Kadri's home grown London Ontario Toe Drag School Of Hockey where he came from and got a real competitive player.

 

[Kelly]

These grounded people would've thought that Ryan Johansen's upside is of a #2 C last year as well, look at him now.

Some players perform above expectations, and in other news, the sky is blue.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I don't need a plan. Nonis and Shanny do!

They're not here on this board argueing with fanatics, people who are nostalgic, people who have Kadri jerseys, people who have serious hockey pools to win. They are ignoring the emotions. They get paid to make it happen. They're the ones who are taking phone calls and meeting scouts who know of players beyond your NHL 14 roster data base. Things change and I hope they bring it sooner than later. I would hope they didn't care about Kadri's home grown London Ontario Toe Drag School Of Hockey where he came from and got a real competitive player.

So you're going to ignore the actual points I made and go on with a thinly-veiled personal attack and generic rambling about wanting change and "oh yeah toe-drags LOL."

You know, you could just quietly slink away and not respond. It's not like I'm going to go after you for a response.

 

[Trapper]

I don't need a plan. Nonis and Shanny do!

They're not here on this board argueing with fanatics, people who are nostalgic, people who have Kadri jerseys, people who have serious hockey pools to win. They are ignoring the emotions. They get paid to make it happen. They're the ones who are taking phone calls and meeting scouts who know of players beyond your NHL 14 roster data base. Things change and I hope they bring it sooner than later. I would hope they didn't care about Kadri's home grown London Ontario Toe Drag School Of Hockey where he came from and got a real competitive player.

Debating players is not good until we/management decided on an identity.
For me (since we are blue and white) means a blue collar, hard working team that's tough to play against. Strong on the puck,strong on the forechecking and on opposing players like dogs on raw meat.
Now, who doesn't fit that mold on this current team. Who is lazy or think their skill is enough just by putting on skates? The word is not rebuild or retool, like a ship the word is refit.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

People who see more potential in Kadri than you do aren't grounded, nice.

Trading for 1 C's is just a hypothetical game that dreamers play. It doesn't happen. Meanwhile, your answer is to trade away our 23 y/o high first round center for a 3C on a good team with potential, in a league where all the best centers come from the draft.

I whip out the popcorn whenever you post.

At least we can come to a consensus that we have 2 numbers 2's

That's all I'm asking.

People in this thread are asking me to solve the leafs' center issues?

Now who's grounded?

 

[ForSpareParts*]

So you're going to ignore the actual points I made and go on with a thinly-veiled personal attack and generic rambling about wanting change and "oh yeah toe-drags LOL."

You know, you could just quietly slink away and not respond. It's not like I'm going to go after you for a response.

Good. Great. Ok.

 

[Trapper]

These grounded people would've thought that Ryan Johansen's upside is of a #2 C last year as well, look at him now.

Some players perform above expectations, and in other news, the sky is blue.

Johansen just turned 21. Kadri is turning 24 (if that's who you are comparing). People and the Columbus management would be asking these questions if Johansen 3 years from now didn't have a breakout season. Especially if there were questions in his game. It's natural.

 

[Wami]

At least we can come to a consensus that we have 2 numbers 2's

That's all I'm asking.

People in this thread are asking me to solve the leafs' center issues?

Now who's grounded?

Apparently, you're the only grounded one and we're all just floating off into space. You know, if everyone is crazy, it might be time to look inward.

Right now, we have two number 2s. If that's all you wanted to know, it's /thread.

However, grading their performance based on this season is completely different from projecting their ceiling in 5+ years, or heck... even next year. You seem to have made your mind up on Kadri, it's clear everywhere you post, but patience with high first round drafted Centers is a virtue. If the question is whether or not Kadri will remain a 2c on the depth chart if we hold on to him, the answer is we can't possibly know right now.

But if we don't hold on to him, it's not like the market for centermen is any better. Do you get it now?

 

[ForSpareParts*]

If the goal of hockey is to draft draft draft (the only true way to acquire a 1C) then why aren't teams stumbling over themselves to lose?

just because I (a fan) can't figure a way for the leafs to get a 1C doesn't mean it possibility doesn't exist.

 

[Wami]

If the goal of hockey is to draft draft draft (the only true way to acquire a 1C) then why aren't teams stumbling over themselves to lose?

just because I (a fan) can't figure a way for the leafs to get a 1C doesn't mean it possibility doesn't exist.

1. No self-respecting hockey player or coach intentionally tanks. They all want to win.

2. Losing guarantees almost nothing. See Draft Lottery.

3. It's just as important to develop your picks as it is to draft them, winning and a winning environment is part of that.

4. Winning equals money, hockey teams are businesses. Teams want to win.

 

[Sonofamitch]

How bout we keep both and sign Stastny and let Bolland walk

JVR- Stastny-Kessel
Lupul-Kadri-D'Amigo
Ashton-Bozak-Clarkson
Devane- McClement- Bodie

Probably have to get rid of Lupul thou to afford Stastny. Replace him with one of the cheaper UFA left wingers.

 

[Kelly]

Johansen just turned 21. Kadri is turning 24 (if that's who you are comparing). People and the Columbus management would be asking these questions if Johansen 3 years from now didn't have a breakout season. Especially if there were questions in his game. It's natural.

Kadri is only 2 years younger than Johansen actually, and Ryan started playing in the NHL at a earlier time and age as Kadri. My point was that unsuspected players can break out, and Nazem, who plays 2nd line/2nd PP while still getting 50 pts in a "bad" year, could very well be the next player that does. It certainly wouldn't surprise me.

 

[The CyNick]

How bout we keep both and sign Stastny and let Bolland walk

JVR- Stastny-Kessel
Lupul-Kadri-D'Amigo
Ashton-Bozak-Clarkson
Devane- McClement- Bodie

Probably have to get rid of Lupul thou to afford Stastny. Replace him with one of the cheaper UFA left wingers.

Colorado has plenty of money, I don't see Stastny choosing to come here unless we go crazy with salary and term. Colorado is better off keeping him and possibly trade him or a guy like ROR to acquire additional assets to help the team.

 

[The CyNick]

Kadri is only 2 years younger than Johansen actually, and Ryan started playing in the NHL at a earlier time and age as Kadri. My point was that unsuspected players can break out, and Nazem, who plays 2nd line/2nd PP while still getting 50 pts in a "bad" year, could very well be the next player that does. It certainly wouldn't surprise me.

for me the Kadri debate comes down to his commitment to defence. I have no doubt he will top off production wise as a low end number 1/high end number 2 centre. But when you have a line like the Kessel line that plays no D whatsoever you can't afford to have your 2 hole centre to play the same way.

If there existed a same age centre who put up less points than Kadri, but was strong in the two way game, it would be a logical move. I just don't think such a deal exists.

 

[tacoburrito]

If it's as true as you say it is then what had Kadri learned this whole time? Come on. Someone in juniors, the AHL, and the NHL has tried to teach him! If that's true then he's failed miserably. He's not learning at all. Or maybe it's just not in him. Like he doesn't care at all.

maybe hes just not mature enough to see the value in backchecking and being defensibly responsible? sometimes it can take a single moment for a lightbulb to go off in a players mind you never know.. maybe the light will flick on for the guy maybe it wont but i dont wanna give up on him too soon and this is too soon

 

[Kelly]

for me the Kadri debate comes down to his commitment to defence. I have no doubt he will top off production wise as a low end number 1/high end number 2 centre. But when you have a line like the Kessel line that plays no D whatsoever you can't afford to have your 2 hole centre to play the same way.

If there existed a same age centre who put up less points than Kadri, but was strong in the two way game, it would be a logical move. I just don't think such a deal exists.

Agreed. But god, if Kadri ever develops a good 2 way game, we will have one valuable player on our hands.

A physical 2 way pesty centre, who is capable of putting up ~60 points a year, don't come around often.

Imagine us trading him away for a 30+ year old player, only to have him develop into this? Good 'ol Maple Leafs.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Agreed. But god, if Kadri ever develops a good 2 way game, we will have one valuable player on our hands.

A physical 2 way pesty centre, who is capable of putting up ~60 points a year, don't come around often.

Imagine us trading him away for a 30+ year old player, only to have him develop into this? Good 'ol Maple Leafs.

Everything I like about him is stuff that is more or less impossible to teach, what I dislike about him is stuff that can be learnt or will grow away. No way should we trade Kadri away for a quick fix or even some one signed long term but who have already peaked. Centers usually peak in their mid 20´s so Kadri is a few years away from even starting to peak. He is a keeper.

 

[Renegade]

Are Plekanec and Desharnais in Montreal top line centres?

Is Dubinsky in Columbus a top line centre?

Is it possible to believe that a line can work without a bonafide #1 centre? If the line works, who cares who the centre is. Vanek-Desharnais-Pacioretty line is one of the hottest lines in the NHL. To me, if JVR-Bozak-Kessel line is producing, don't touch it.

If anything, our 2nd and 4th lines need to improve. I liked the Kuli-Kadri-Lupul line last year, but this season our 2nd line was weak IMO. Hopefully Kadri will be better next season, Lupul too. But we could use a solid 2nd line winger more IMO. Cammalleri would be a guy I'd go hard after. Bring him to Toronto to play on the wing with Kadri and Lupul, that would really help us get some secondary scoring.

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Cammalleri - Kadri - Lupul
Clarkson - Bolland - Leivo
Bodie - McClement - D'Amigo

Conversely, our Defense needs to improve. And I have no clue how we can do that. I don't believe Phaneuf will get traded, although I'd like him to be. I'd try to maybe bring a guy like Bieksa or Edler to Toronto. We need someone to support Phaneuf at the very least. Unless we're willing to give Franson the big bucks to be the #1. I simply don't see it happening.

 

[ShameOnYouZidlicky]

In my opinion, Kadri has the potential to top out at around 65 maybe 70 points. His two-way game, however, is way too weak for him to be considered a top line guy right now. Kadri doesn't really seem like a guy who will sacrifice some of his offence to become a better defensive all-around player so I think we need to try to insulate him with a strong two-way presence who can match up against top lines leaving Kadri to go against weaker players. I like Bozak, but his defensive play isn't strong enough to make up for his offensive deficiencies. We need a guy who can make up for Kessel and JVR's poor defensive play, someone like Ryan O'Reilly. I doubt we can him in a trade so maybe take a flyer on Jared McCann in the draft although I'd like to go with someone with more offensive upside.