Real Madrid - Liverpool: CL Final 26th May

[The Abusement Park]

Who said Madrid was paying the refs?

Why else would the refs prefer Madrid over everyone else?

Also that was tongue in check, shoulda put a smilie after it.

 

[S E P H]

The only reffing that I remember off the top of my head which favoured a team was Chelsea's fluke run and Barcelona a couple of years.

 

[les Habs]

Who said Madrid was paying the refs?

Not me. As I've noted before, in Spain I don't think they need to.

 

[les Habs]

The only reffing that I remember off the top of my head which favoured a team was Chelsea's fluke run and Barcelona a couple of years.

Your early onset Alzheimer's is only part of your problem.

 

[Corto]

Really? Marcelo's handball gives Bayern a 3-2 win and a ticket for the final.

I don't think you realize how it works.

If a penalty is awarded there, the rest of the game would not be the same. You can't just add that goal to the end score line and say that would be it, that's completely ridiculous.

 

[Evilo]

I don't think you realize how it works.

If a penalty is awarded there, the rest of the game would not be the same. You can't just add that goal to the end score line and say that would be it, that's completely ridiculous.

Ah, so you're playing the "well, yeah Bayern would have lead, but Madrid would have come back" line.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Madrid has a better goalie, way better D (best LB, RB, CB in the world), way better midfield (2 best CMs in the world) and better forwards (best player in the world). Add in their experience in these games, better bench and Klopp's pathetic record in finals and it's not hard to pick a winner.

 

[Corto]

Ah, so you're playing the "well, yeah Bayern would have lead, but Madrid would have come back" line.

No. I'm not saying anything. All I'm saying is that adding a potential goal for the Marcelo handball to the final result is stupid.
And the entire game would've gone differently from that point on.
Madrid did step up every time they needed, that much is true - but I'm not even saying they would or would not - all I'm saying is that your line of reasoning is flawed. Not flawed, actually, just wrong.
And you know it.

Madrid has a better goalie, way better D (best LB, RB, CB in the world), way better midfield (2 best CMs in the world) and better forwards (best player in the world). Add in their experience in these games, better bench and Klopp's pathetic record in finals and it's not hard to pick a winner.

I wouldn't say Madrid has better forwardS. Salah has been absolute magic this season, one of the best seasons by an attacking player not named Cristiano or Lionel in a long time; and Firminho and Mane fit that trident like a glove. At this stage of their careers, Firminho and Mane are just as good (and better) than a struggling Bale or Isco and Benzema (who, despite being ridiculously underrated by most football media, is still not a good as he was 2-3 years ago).

Liverpool's big flaw is a midfield which is inferior to most "tier 1" teams - but they just sort of ignore the midfield.
They either go pressure and create turnovers (Roma was awful with that in the 1st leg) or sit deep and punt the ball forward where Salah and Co. just leave the defenders miles behind them.
Klopp has done masterfully at hiding his team deficiencies. While, yes, this Real team has the quality, experience and is more complete, I wouldn't underestimate Liverpool. They found their form at the right time and have earned their spot in the final for a reason.

 

[Evilo]

No. I'm not saying anything. All I'm saying is that adding a potential goal for the Marcelo handball to the final result is stupid.
And the entire game would've gone differently from that point on.
Madrid did step up every time they needed, that much is true - but I'm not even saying they would or would not - all I'm saying is that your line of reasoning is flawed. Not flawed, actually, just wrong.
And you know it.

How incredible.
Real gets saved from a goal, but now, you're defending the line that they would have qualified with or without the goal (or as you said, would or wouldn't, but let's deny the would).
Indeed the game could have gone a lot of ways. Bayern could have scored 3 more with all the momentum they got.

What is flawed is considering that Real is a deserving winner against Bayern when they got a benefit of a goal against not counted.

Wrong it is.

 

[S E P H]

Your early onset Alzheimer's is only part of your problem.

You don't think Barca has ever gotten benefits from the refs in European play, more so than other teams? You think UEFAlona is some type of satanic cult word made by Real fans to bring down the establishment in northeastern Espana? You think the game against PSG was just bad refereeing? The game against the Arsenal? AC Milan?

It's bad when even the most notorious diver calls it a disgrace.

 

[bleedblue1223]

You don't think Barca has ever gotten benefits from the refs in European play, more so than other teams? You think UEFAlona is some type of satanic cult word made by Real fans to bring down the establishment in northeastern Espana? You think the game against PSG was just bad refereeing? The game against the Arsenal? AC Milan?

It's bad when even the most notorious diver calls it a disgrace.

Ovrebo admitted to several mistakes after that game. Either conspiracy or one of the worst reffed games in history.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

lool Uefalona. We've come full circle. Puyol's red and penalty should've stopped that debate but add in Abidal's red or Alves' phantom offside goal... don't even get me start on 2010 and the sham of Mou' CL.

 

[koyvoo]

It’s pretty clear that in this era, both clubs (Madrid/Barca) have benefited from questionable officiating at rate generally higher than any other club.
I thought this was common knowledge.

 

[The Abusement Park]

It’s pretty clear that in this era, both clubs (Madrid/Barca) have benefited from questionable officiating at rate generally higher than any other club.
I thought this was common knowledge.

Yup. Basically any big team in every league has as well.

 

[les Habs]

You don't think Barca has ever gotten benefits from the refs in European play, more so than other teams? You think UEFAlona is some type of satanic cult word made by Real fans to bring down the establishment in northeastern Espana? You think the game against PSG was just bad refereeing? The game against the Arsenal? AC Milan?

It's bad when even the most notorious diver calls it a disgrace.

How you could possibly come away from my post thinking that I think that Barça has never had the benefits of a poor ref decision in European play is incredible. Yes, Barça has had more "benefits from the refs in European play" than other teams. However we haven't had benefits more than every other team.

I think UEFAlona is a term that came from some sort type of f***ing moron. Whether or not that person is a bigger f***ing moron than the f***ing morons who have used the term and continue to use the term after the fact is debatable.

As @Duchene2MacKinnon noted, we've been on the receiving end of big calls consistently and if you actually watched every match and understood the rules you'd know that. In fact you wouldn't bring up the examples you did, especially the laughable Chelsea reference, if you'd seen both legs and/or understood the rules.

It’s pretty clear that in this era, both clubs (Madrid/Barca) have benefited from questionable officiating at rate generally higher than any other club.
I thought this was common knowledge.

As regards Barça it's common lack of knowledge.

 

[koyvoo]

Ya, Im not so sure.
I wouldn’t say that people who watched Barca closely during this era would have any “lack of knowledge” compared to anyone who may have an opinion. It may be a toss up in between Madrid/Barca in terms of who has benefited most, but if a “supporter” of either club were to say that, 1- other clubs receive equal favours, or, 2- if any Barca/Madrid “fan” claims that their rival has benefited from questionable officiating much more than they themselves have (in this era) they are doing nothing other that embarrassing themselves by not being able to temper their biases.

It’s hilarious seeing one of these fan bases claim foul on the other when in virtually all intent and purpose, both clubs and their legions of “fans” are exactly the same.

 

[YNWA14]

Generally the best teams will get more calls because they're also in positions to get those calls more often than other teams. This is as true in football as it is in any sport.

 

[koyvoo]

Sure.
The game is also a business above all for the governing bodies and revenue is revenue.
It’s the same reason a France situation with Ireland and the Henry handball goes France’s way rather than Ireland’s.
I can accept that this is the way this sport is, but it’s when people deny it, or worse, acknowledge it for other teams, but not their own that is more annoying.

 

[Savant]

Generally the best teams will get more calls because they're also in positions to get those calls more often than other teams. This is as true in football as it is in any sport.

I mean Michael Jordan got calls. Sidney Crosby gets calls. Superstars get calls. The two Spanish teams have the most Superstars. They get the most calls. Manchester United under Ferguson falls into this category as well, not to mention the refs were terrified of him.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Sure.
The game is also a business above all for the governing bodies and revenue is revenue.
It’s the same reason a France situation with Ireland and the Henry handball goes France’s way rather than Ireland’s.
I can accept that this is the way this sport is, but it’s when people deny it, or worse, acknowledge it for other teams, but not their own that is more annoying.

Ding ding ding.

 

[les Habs]

Ya, Im not so sure.
I wouldn’t say that people who watched Barca closely during this era would have any “lack of knowledge” compared to anyone who may have an opinion. It may be a toss up in between Madrid/Barca in terms of who has benefited most, but if a “supporter” of either club were to say that, 1- other clubs receive equal favours, or, 2- if any Barca/Madrid “fan” claims that their rival has benefited from questionable officiating much more than they themselves have (in this era) they are doing nothing other that embarrassing themselves by not being able to temper their biases.

It’s hilarious seeing one of these fan bases claim foul on the other when in virtually all intent and purpose, both clubs and their legions of “fans” are exactly the same.

Yeah, you aren't so sure. If you actually watch every match and keep it all in perspective you'd know that certain decisions that favor a club, like Barça, get blown out of proportion while other decisions that go against Barça are completely ignored. If you polled people and asked the two biggest decisions that Barça received in the last decade in the Champion's League they'd cite two very specific ties. Yet in one of those ties every call that Barça didn't get wouldn't be acknowledged. In fact one of those ties was at worst dead even in terms of calls going in favor of each side, yet few (though it should be noted there are a few on this very forum who fall into this category) either know the rules or put it all into the context of the entire tie. As for the other tie, it kept Barça from likely winning the CL which would have meant back-to-back wins and all other tournaments being the same actually three wins in a row. If someone actually thinks that Barça get as many or more calls than Madrid in whatever period you're referring to then they're either ignorant, biased or both.

It's hilarious that someone actually sees both sets of supporters as exactly the same when in my experience it's not remotely the case. And this is coming from someone who has actually seen La Liga matches live and has interacted with numerous Cules and Madridistas for nearly two decades.

I mean Michael Jordan got calls. Sidney Crosby gets calls. Superstars get calls. The two Spanish teams have the most Superstars. They get the most calls. Manchester United under Ferguson falls into this category as well, not to mention the refs were terrified of him.

This is rich coming from the supporter of a club that has had more calls in 2-3 matches in this year's CL than we've probably had all tournament.

 

[Savant]

This is rich coming from the supporter of a club that has had more calls in 2-3 matches in this year's CL than we've probably had all tournament.

What about what I said was wrong?

Those weren't anti-Barca (or Madrid) comments by by the way. It's a sporting fact.

Also let's not pretend Liverpool didn't have some pretty big calls in the Roma ties go against them as well, and also had to deal with some bad luck. The officiating against LFC in the PL has been been worse than in the CL though.

 

[les Habs]

What about what I said was wrong?

Those weren't anti-Barca (or Madrid) comments by by the way. It's a sporting fact.

Also let's not pretend Liverpool didn't have some pretty big calls in the Roma ties go against them as well, and also had to deal with some bad luck. The officiating against LFC in the PL has been been worse than in the CL though.

The problem with your post is that it's completely false for starters.

How about the Man City tie? The fact of the matter is that Liverpool also got calls. Barça get calls, but no one bothers with the calls that go against them. Instead it's "they get the most calls."

Technically it was an anti-Barça statement, but that isn't the point. The point is you're flat out wrong.

 

[Savant]

The problem with your post is that it's completely false for starters.

How about the Man City tie? The fact of the matter is that Liverpool also got calls. Barça get calls, but no one bothers with the calls that go against them. Instead it's "they get the most calls."

Technically it was an anti-Barça statement, but that isn't the point. The point is you're flat out wrong.

Are you saying Jordan and Crosby (and Ronaldo, Messi, etc.) Dont get the benefit of the doubt from officials?

 

[les Habs]

Are you saying Jordan and Crosby (and Ronaldo, Messi, etc.) Dont get the benefit of the doubt from officials?

I didn't comment on that. To answer your question, specific to Messi, yes and no. Of course both answers are the case. Generally though I'd say he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt more than he does. Still I think most calls made as regards him being fouled are correct.

And with your prior post, saying Roma got calls proves your point false.