Real Madrid - Liverpool: CL Final 26th May

[Paulie Gualtieri]

It turns out to be incredibly easy to say "intent to injure" when a player actually gets injured.

Ramos is a dirty and what he did today was bad, but he should not have been sent off.

 

[Savant]

Funny thing, just minutes ago someone wrote on the Swedish LFC forum how that move is a warning in Judo cause of the injury risk, collar bone was mentioned... I know nothing about it so I don't know

Yup. But what do I know? Arm takedowns are not soccer moves.

 

[Live in the Now]

It turns out to be incredibly easy to say "intent to injure" when a player actually gets injured.

Ramos is a dirty **** and what he did today was bad, but he should not have been sent off.

If Salah doesn't get hurt, all that happens is that we say Ramos is a dirty and we move on until the next time. Which at the rate Ramos does it, could have been four or five minutes later. The way he tried to roll onto Salah was really gross though and hopefully he gets what he deserves one of these days. Hopefully it happens in the WC when Egypt plays Spain and hopefully Hegazy kicks Ramos in the face like Pepe did to the Getafe lad. Yes I am that mad.

It still wasn't a red what Ramos did, but hopefully he gets what he deserves for years of trying to injure players. If Egypt plays Spain and Spain takes a lead, guess what? He probably will.

 

[Alklha]

This sounds better though

Hopefully Salah is going to be fit to play in the World Cup, but I don't believe that they have the information to make any meaningful statements. They know the player will want to play and that it's an upper body injury, so they are going to start applying the pressure for it to be their decision immediately.

 

[Deficient Mode]

I missed the Ramos elbow on Karius live but that's disgusting. If Karius got concussed from that, the resulting disorientation could have heavily contributed to his mistakes.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Quite the opposite. In the BT Sport interview right after the game, he pretty much said that he wanted to leave. Not getting enough starts, going to talk to agent.

No

And we might buy Neymar, who I despise, to replace him. The team probably be better, but I'll be mad.

 

[trostol]

Yep, full credit. All I wanted was to not be ****ed by the ref, we weren't ****ed, full credit to them.

thought the ref was pretty solid today..did nothing to make himself noticed really

had a bad feeling it wasn't going to go the Reds way as soon as Salah went down..feel bad for the awful game Karius had at pretty much the wrong game to have it in..but Liverpool fought to the end...also shows Pool need to get a better keeper and someone else with a bit of magic in their feet

 

[Jussi]

Yes, I know all this. There is still nothing that compares to the modern athlete, whether it's because of dope or whatever, but nothing compares. There weren't as many top players for him to play against either.

But he still played agaisnt players that are considered as legends today. Most of whom consider him the greatest ever. Two of the greatest defenders Moore or Beckenbauer had no problem saying it. IF a 15-16 yeal old Pelé was put into a youth team in Brazil in the modern era, he would be snapped up in no time by some of the world's bigges clubs. Few players could possess such a combination of size, speed, skill, scoring with both feet from close and far, an aerial threat, passing ability and general offensive awareness.

 

[Prntscrn]

Ugh going through the comments on Karius instagram pisses me off

 

[Savant]

It happens all the time. I have never seen a red given for that, if you have, point me in the direction please.

It is unfortunate that this conversation takes us away from the actual game, where it turned out that Klopp was right to trust Lovren all along, where he played the game of his life, and because of two mistakes it doesn't matter. That Klopp had a good plan for once Salah went down only for it to be ruined. That's the part I'm bothered the most by, that Liverpool could have won this game and still didn't. I am also extremely bothered by Firmino's performance, that we had performances from our back four like that, and Firmino's participation in the game was simply gone once Salah left.

Point me in direction of another judo take down and we can compare notes

I thought most of the team was great today. I dont know if Firmino was too busy defending, but he was invisible on offense. It's a unfortunate that Madrid is able to bring on Bale in a game like this and Klopp only had Solanke. Karius is the only one that let them down but you are right about Firmino.

 

[Live in the Now]

But he still played agaisnt players that are considered as legends today. Most of whom consider him the greatest ever. Two of the greatest defenders Moore or Beckenbauer had no problem saying it. IF a 15-16 yeal old Pelé was put into a youth team in Brazil in the modern era, he would be snapped up in no time by some of the world's bigges clubs. Few players could possess such a combination of size, speed, skill, scoring with both feet from close and far, an aerial threat, passing ability and general offensive awareness.

I still think Pele would be a great player. Maradona no.

I do however think that Messi and Ronaldo are more powerful and athletic than both of them and pretty much nothing will change my mind on that one.

The sport was entirely different in those days though. Someone posted here a while back that they watched an older game and had forgotten how slow the tempo was. You can definitely notice it in games played as late as 1986. The level of amateur hour defending on countries other than the elite will shock you.

 

[Corto]

But he still played agaisnt players that are considered as legends today. Most of whom consider him the greatest ever. Two of the greatest defenders Moore or Beckenbauer had no problem saying it. IF a 15-16 yeal old Pelé was put into a youth team in Brazil in the modern era, he would be snapped up in no time by some of the world's bigges clubs. Few players could possess such a combination of size, speed, skill, scoring with both feet from close and far, an aerial threat, passing ability and general offensive awareness.

Pele and Maradona can't compare to Ronaldo and Messi.
Pele at least has an excuse of being harder to compare, never having played in Europe.
Maradona, OTOH... For all his brilliance, his career went from media saying he was "a great player" to "the greatest" because of 2 games in the 1986 WC.
On a club level, he's not even in the same galaxy as Messi and Ronaldo.

And for me, I don't even need to view Pele and Maradona "in todays game".
Look at the numbers, the trophies, the domination... Scoring hasn't changed. Leading goal scorers still top out at 25-30, sometimes you get a Higuain hit 36 or this year's Salah. In comparison to the players of their era, Maradona never came close to the levels of Ronaldo and Messi.
Noone ever got anywhere near to banging in 40, 50 and 60 goals with regularity like Messi and Ronaldo, while leading their teams to countless trophies and basically making their entire era about whether Real or Barca will win the CL, and the rest get scraps.

It's the magic of the WC. It does that, skewes people's opinions on players.
Platini had a similar tournament in 1984 (the EURO) and was much more consistent and had more success at club level, but he always gets skipped in these conversations in favor or Maradona, etc.

 

[booyakasha]

#3 behind Pelé (#1) and Maradona.

IMO he is better than both.
That was how I thought as well, but, when you take a step back and look objectively, CR7 is untouchable.
Like when Gretzky was playing, they all downplayed, becuase fans are scared and hold sacred the old records.
(Bossy was better, he was never going to touch Gordie, etc. etc.)
When Ronaldo retires, and people look back, they will truly appreciate what he accomplished.
and will regret what they took for granted in watching a legend alive.

 

[Deficient Mode]

IMO he is better than both.
That was how I thought as well, but, when you take a step back and look objectively, CR7 is untouchable.
Like when Gretzky was playing, they all downplayed, becuase fans are scared and hold sacred the old records.
(Bossy was better, he was never going to touch Gordie, etc. etc.)
When Ronaldo retires, and people look back, they will truly appreciate what he accomplished.
and will regret what they took for granted in watching a legend alive.

Many people are willing to call Messi the GOAT though. Probably because he's a far better player than Cristiano. "Objectively untouchable"... oh dear.

 

[booyakasha]

Many people are willing to call Messi the GOAT though. Probably because he's a far better player than Cristiano. "Objectively untouchable"... oh dear.

he is not though., to think, well, like you say, ...oh dear.

 

[Prntscrn]

he is not though., to think, well, like you say, ...oh dear.

He is though. Ronaldo is a fantastic player, he's just unlucky to play in the same era as the goat Messi.

 

[Live in the Now]

Pele and Maradona can't compare to Ronaldo and Messi.
Pele at least has an excuse of being harder to compare, never having played in Europe.
Maradona, OTOH... For all his brilliance, his career went from media saying he was "a great player" to "the greatest" because of 2 games in the 1986 WC.
On a club level, he's not even in the same galaxy as Messi and Ronaldo.

And for me, I don't even need to view Pele and Maradona "in todays game".
Look at the numbers, the trophies, the domination... Scoring hasn't changed. Leading goal scorers still top out at 25-30, sometimes you get a Higuain hit 36 or this year's Salah.
But noone ever got anywhere near to banging in 40, 50 and 60 goals like Messi and Ronaldo, while leading their teams to countless trophies and basically making their entire era about whether Real or Barca will win the CL, and the rest get scraps.

It's the magic of the WC. It does that, skewes people's opinions on players.
Platini had a similar tournament in 1984 (the EURO) and was much more consistent and had more success at club level, but he always gets skipped in these conversations in favor or Maradona, etc.

Defending and goalkeeping on most of these goals are nowhere near modern standards. I think most people have never watched them. Half of these goals would never be scored in 2018 and there is a reason Messi only ever scored one goal like the England one, because the average player is now too good for that to happen. Does anyone think he would score a goal like the Belgium one in the World Cup SF today? Hell no. First of all practically every quality keeper now would save it. I mean no disrespect but people really should watch these. There are instances of players standing right next to him that basically have no tenacity and don't ever challenge for the ball. Another in the Final where he gets the ball 1 v 1 practically at the halfway line. No defense would EVER allow that today.

 

[Halladay]

Tough match. Showed they need a keeper and better depth.

 

[hatterson]

Many people are willing to call Messi the GOAT though. Probably because he's a far better player than Cristiano. "Objectively untouchable"... oh dear.

He's better, but "far better" is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Corto]

Many people are willing to call Messi the GOAT though. Probably because he's a far better player than Cristiano. "Objectively untouchable"... oh dear.

Part of it is that Ronaldo was, well... A brat. Petulant, unlikable. He's grown up some, but you can still see the same person under the maturity.
If he had scored tonight in the 92nd minute to make it 4-1, its very likely we'd have gotten "shirt-off-siiiiuuuu" celebration. Stuff like that.

If he (Ronaldo) has a good WC, and ends up with a 6th Ballon d'Or (very possible, having top scored the CL by a country mile), he'll have 6 Ballons.
To Messi's 5. And 5 CLs. To Messi's 3 (technically 4, he was on the list for the 06 team that beat Arsenal, but he never played).

Now, for me, Messi is the GOAT, don't get me wrong.
But hearing people diss Ronaldo after those facts above as somehow not only not the #2, but sometimes "barely top-10", etc... It's either bias or ignorance.

Ronaldo is the closest thing to Messi in football history. Messi is better (for me), but saying "a far better player" in light of all the numbers, trophies and games... Its just silly, dude.

 

[booyakasha]

He is though. Ronaldo is a fantastic player, he's just unlucky to play in the same era as the goat Messi.

Messi is a fantasic player, and #2 all time for me.
needs to do something outside Barcelona though.

 

[Live in the Now]

He's better, but "far better" is pretty ridiculous.

He's far better technically. Ronaldo is smarter at getting into the best goalscoring position though, and the teams are built to put him in those positions. Messi is also less selfish and would never constantly take free kicks even though he sucks at them.

RM has also put together a better team than Barcelona, which is ultimately what matters most as to why Ronaldo was in this game and Messi was not.

 

[Live in the Now]

Messi is a fantasic player, and #2 all time for me.
needs to do something outside Barcelona though.

What did Ronaldo do outside of Madrid that was so special? Win a CL by missing a penalty and cried while his teammates celebrated? Win the Euro because some guy scored out of nowhere after he went off injured? There's nothing wrong with him being the #2, but he is the #2.

 

[Ceremony]

 

[hersky77]

Messi is a fantasic player, and #2 all time for me.
needs to do something outside Barcelona though.

What the hell has Ronaldo done outside of Madrid or united.

And don’t say his team won the euros, he was a spectator for the finals, granted he got hurt.

Messi has also broughten his country to finals, they probably should have won the last World Cup.