GDT: Rd1 G2: caPs @ caTs 7:30ish

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IafrateOvie34

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Kindve off topic and not just tonight or the series thus far but in the grand scheme of things once the playoffs start, this league, the refs, the announcers, basically every aspect of the sport are always so anti-Caps. Been like that forever it feels
Things never change. There is a real hatred or perceived hatred by the media no matter who covers the NHL towards the Caps. CBC used to be good towards the Caps. Last night was unbearable because it was just constant Florida love and listening to Pang's nonsense. Then you have that stupid panel wishing they could still play hockey endorsing how it's great for the game for Florida to win. Gretzky was like man why do I bother showing up for this panel and endorsing it. Even when the Caps won the cup the NBCS main crew was about to cry the Caps were going to win and went insane every time Vegas scored. You have those who only like original teams, then there is the agenda driven push for expanding the NHL, and finally the superstar bandwagon lovers who only root for those teams who have generational players. I wish it was just a Cap's fanbase perspective, however we can go back to the 80s and see the media's hatred for the Caps. I think back to how disappointed the media was when Buffalo lost to the Caps in ECF. It was pretty bad, except it didn't have the coverage like NBCS in recent years.

This was pretty much my thesis going into the trade deadline.

I'm not going to harp on this until they are eliminated from the postseason because they are still in decent enough shape to advance. But I do wonder why people think Connor McMichael, for instance, is some untouchable asset when the coach won't play him despite an injury to a top 6 forward.
He's not really untouchable if he doesn't play. In his Jr. days he showed the potential to be a grinder goal that is great for playoffs or 3C.
 

RandyHolt

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I'm with you. Our goalies can't string together 2 wins in a row. If I'm the coach I'm alternating.
It could even relieve pressure among the 2 vs both fearing "being the guy" all by themselves. Lets face it playoff hockey can come down to some random shit that can make a "winning" goalie a loser or vice versa; the goalie not the deciding factor. All those years Holtby posted the best playoff #s but playing golf every June.

Oshie hitting the post last night. The garbage deflection cat 1st goal. Willy getting injured. Shit happens but its standard NHL playoff adversity and no matter what, neither of our Gs are ready to handle the load themselves. If we win the cup it may take 4 goalies. And Scott Murray (no relation) may not be helping our situation. Too late for a goalie coach change heh.
 
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Caps8112

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Yes 10000% agree. After that third goal last night I told my wife the game is done. It didn't matter at that point how many more goals Panthers scored. It could have ended 3-1 or 30-1. The game was over.

Its funny. I read Backstroms comments today and he pretty much echoed all of this. He said the third goal took all the momentum away.

You mentioned Gibson but the scary part is that Caps didint even need Gibson. More than half of the leagues goalies are better than Venecec and most of the goalies in the league are better than Samsonov. The numbers do not lie. Caps could have traded for another teams backup and still got better performance out of them.

Its just a stupid situation all around. Especially considering that neither one of the goalies ever solidified themselves. It was always about "potential" right. The writing was on the wall a long time ago. Its not like Caps goalies suddenly started to suck 2 weeks ago.

Last time I recall any team going far with garbage goaltending is 2010 Flyer with Marty Biron in net. Anyone can think of another example?
Flyers went to the cup with Leighton? Spelling. who managed to vancek himself on Kanes Cup winning goal.

Agree with you that the team starts each game with the mindset of we will win in spite of our putrid goaltending. then vanecek allows one from the pressbox and you can actually see the team punt the game mentally. The funniest part is its not even Vannys fault. He is on the team for the simple of reason of he was the only healthy goalie 2 training camps ago. Imo management had no intention of relying on him but they didnt realize samsonov sucked as bad as he does and would never claim the starter job.
 
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IafrateOvie34

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Oh my final statement on last night's loss. It's mostly on the coaching staff and of course VV. It's nothing new, however all momentum went downhill when they blew that double minor PP and VV giving up that weak third goal scored by Florida. The first two Florida goals I couldn't really blame VV, but I sure can for the others. I agree with Carlzner that it's unacceptable to have Forsythe.
 

IafrateOvie34

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I'm with you. Our goalies can't string together 2 wins in a row. If I'm the coach I'm alternating.

It worked for Keenan's teams and he even had the balls to call out goalies like when he said Curtis Joseph will never be a Stanley Cup winner.

Yes 10000% agree. After that third goal last night I told my wife the game is done. It didn't matter at that point how many more goals Panthers scored. It could have ended 3-1 or 30-1. The game was over.

Its funny. I read Backstroms comments today and he pretty much echoed all of this. He said the third goal took all the momentum away.

You mentioned Gibson but the scary part is that Caps didint even need Gibson. More than half of the leagues goalies are better than Venecec and most of the goalies in the league are better than Samsonov. The numbers do not lie. Caps could have traded for another teams backup and still got better performance out of them.

Its just a stupid situation all around. Especially considering that neither one of the goalies ever solidified themselves. It was always about "potential" right. The writing was on the wall a long time ago. Its not like Caps goalies suddenly started to suck 2 weeks ago.

Last time I recall any team going far with garbage goaltending is 2010 Flyer with Marty Biron in net. Anyone can think of another example?

Jon Casey in 91 was outstanding in the playoffs for a terrible regular season North Stars team, granted he was a starting goalie and veteran by that point.
 

RandyHolt

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McMichael not getting a sweater last night must have been a kick in the ole coconuts. It tells me Lavi thinks he should be in Hershey working on his game more.

As a coach you HAVE spare parts - a top 6 guy, a bottom 6, and a 7D. You plug them in when injury strikes. I thought THAT IS WHY THEY ARE HERE.

He likely foresaw a grinding type game so bigger was better but I saw our PP G D and coach choke. Leason didn't do dick and Lavi's lineup moves are a factor in losses. We can't pin every loss on a G if the 3rd goal is a softee the f***ing PP has to score on a 4min PP. We couldn't even enter the zone yet tried the same entry over and over again.
 
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Jags

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There were plenty of posters on here who thought the gm had made the smart move not overpaying for a goalie

No one wants to overpay for anything, ever. So that's not an incriminating statement. And most of the statements you're referring to that were being cautious about that type of move were WAY more about being realistic about our dodgy chances at a Cup than being content with the goalies we have. In other words, the argument was, "We're beat up, so let's maybe not mortgage everything trying to improve our 2% chance of winning a Cup to maybe 3.3%. Let's manage our assets better in the offseason when there's exponentially more value to be had."

The argument was NOT, "Let's keep these goalies because they're awesome and our prospects are awesome and our draft picks are gonna be awesome!"

or even as another poster just said, last summer.

We had cap issues over the summer and two cheap, cost-controlled keepers that had a decent chance of improving. Standing pat wasn't a terrible move at the time. With the benefit of hindsight, sure. But any idiot with a time machine can make all the right GM moves.

If the asking price is a roster player like McMichael or even lap, then imo they should have gone for it.

If that were even remotely true, we would all have thought they should go for it. But it had nothing to do with the asking price and everything to do with us being capped out. Trading McMichael would only have bought us his salary in cap space, which is nothing. If you're after a proven goaltender with a chance of having something real left in the tank (Gibson, Varlamov, etc.), you'd have to move way more salary out.

And this isn't a video game where you can just say, "Okay, take one of our brutal contracts! Take Kempny or Hagelin or Schultz!" Any team we dealt with would have known they had us over a barrel with our glaring goaltending needs, so there's no way they trade us a valuable keeper, retain half his salary, AND eat a bad contract.

Look, I'm not saying that a deal wasn't possible, but it's WAY more complicated than you're making it sound. You're coming off like it would've been easy to upgrade our keeper situation in a big way and we just decided not to. That's not what happened.

They basically folded the last 3 seasons including this one by not getting a real goalie after holtby

I don't disagree with you, but again, it takes hindsight to put it that plainly. They had every reason to be optimistic about Samsonov's ceiling. He was a highly touted prospect. And they didn't put all their faith in him blindly. They went out and got one of the best goaltenders who ever lived to back him up. No one saw the heart issue coming and we ended up leaning on Vanny. Then Vanny played admirably under the circumstances and Sammy had some injury issues, and COVID gummed up the works, so there was always a reason to kick the can down the road a bit.

Then cap issues in the offseason led to them gambling on the huge cap savings we'd yield if one or both found another gear, the cheap options at the TDL were injuried, we couldn't afford someone more established, and here we are. A lot of things happened to land us here. No one just decided to piss away competitive years banking on bad goaltending.
 
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crazy8888

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Flyers went to the cup with Leighton? Spelling. who managed to vancek himself on Kanes Cup winning goal.

Agree with you that the team starts each game with the mindset of we will win in spite of our putrid goaltending. then vanecek allows one from the pressbox and you can actually see the team punt the game mentally. The funniest part is its not even Vannys fault. He is on the team for the simple of reason of he was the only healthy goalie 2 training camps ago. Imo management had no intention of relying on him but they didnt realize samsonov sucked as bad as he does and would never claim the starter job.
Your right. I was thinking of 2007-2008
 

Caps8112

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No one wants to overpay for anything, ever. So that's not an incriminating statement. And most of the statements you're referring to that were being cautious about that type of move were WAY more about being realistic about our dodgy chances at a Cup than being content with the goalies we have. In other words, the argument was, "We're beat up, we're missing key guys and will likely continue to have those issues this year, we haven't been playing well, so let's maybe not mortgage everything trying to improve our 2% chance of winning a Cup to maybe 3.3%. Let's manage our assets better in the offseason when there's exponentially more value to be had."

The argument was NOT, "Let's keep these goalies because they're awesome and our prospects are awesome and our draft picks are gonna be awesome!"



We had cap issues over the summer and two cheap, cost-controlled keepers that had a decent chance of improving. Standing pat wasn't a terrible move at the time. With the benefit of hindsight, sure. But any idiot with a time machine can make all the right GM moves.



If that were even remotely true, we would ALL have thought they should go for it. But it had NOTHING to do with the asking price and EVERYTHING to do with us being capped out. Trading McMichael would only have bought us his salary in cap space, which is nothing. If you're after a proven goaltender with a chance of having something real left in the tank (Gibson, Varlamov, etc.), you'd have to move way more salary out.

And this isn't a video game where you can just say, "Okay, well, take one of our brutal contracts! Take Kempny or Hagelin or Schultz!" No one is going to deal with us -- a team they'd have over a barrel knowing how badly we need goaltending -- trade us a valuable keeper, retain half his salary, AND eat a bad contract.

Look, I'm not saying that a deal wasn't possible, but it's WAY more complicated than you're making it sound. You're coming off like it would've been easy to upgrade our keeper situation in a big way and we just decided not to. That's not what happened.



I don't disagree with you, but again, it takes hindsight to put it that plainly. They had every reason to be optimistic about Samsonov's ceiling. He was a highly touted prospect. And they didn't put all their faith in him blindly. They went out and got one of the best goaltenders who ever lived to back him up. No one saw the heart issue coming and we ended up leaning on Vanny. And Vanny played admirably under the circumstances and Sammy had some injury issues, and COVID gummed up the works, so there was always a reason to kick the can down the road a bit. Then cap issues in the offseason led to them gambling on the huge cap savings we'd yield if one or both found another gear, the cheap options at the TDL were injuried, we couldn't afford someone more established, and here we are.
If the caps chances were really that low then they really should be looking at rebuilding. Imo the team is a goalie away. Are they the avalanche? no. but even the favorites lose in the playoffs. A top end goalie like gibson would give every player on the team confidence and allow them to play above their level.

the time machine isnt necessary. knew day 1 Vanny wasnt the guy. Was happy for him he finally made the team as a back up. Hank is probably one of my favorite goalies ever but even if he hadnt had his medical condition Im not so sure he wasnt headed to retirement anyway. And thats my point. If you have championship caliber team, stop bargain bin shopping for the most important position.

definitely realize how complicated it is but imo something could have been done. plenty of teams that would have taken a cap dump type player with a pick and or prospect added. Gibson is who I wanted them to get at the deadline. No reason for anaheim to keep him and im sure with the right offer something could have happened.

I agree with you about Sammy. Everyone thought he was going to be the next great goalie. Not sure what is actual malfunction is but he needs Mitch Korn type at this point.
 
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tycoonheart

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I know we want the PP to score when have a 4 min PP, but in 2 games we have scored 2 even strength goals. That is just not good enough. They have generated chances but they can't seem to bury em.
 
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ovikovy817

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The scenario for the next 2 games.

G3 -> Dominated by FLA and L
G4 -> Caps will play better than FLA with a lot of chances (posts and good Bob) and FLA will score in OT a fluke bounce.

It will be soooo Caps :(
 

Jags

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Gibson is who I wanted them to get at the deadline. No reason for anaheim to keep him and im sure with the right offer something could have happened.

You think the Caps were the only ones interested? There was obviously a reason to keep him because there's no way they didn't get lots of interest.

We still would have had to clear space to make room for him here, not just the prospect salary that went out. And if we wanted that contract to be one of our choice (Kempny or Hagelin) it would have cost us at least one more prospect/pick. Either that or give up a roster player we like. All that to marry ourselves to John Gibson at $6.4m for the next 5 years.

I'm not sure I like Gibson that much, and it's hard to get a read on how good he actually is now because the Ducks have been so shaky the last few years. He's 4 years removed from his last solid season and is currently statistically no better than what we've got.

So yeah, I personally think it'd be an upgrade, but that's a lot to give up at the TDL to nominally improve our chances, especially when the alternative is waiting it out and using those same assets and upcoming cap relief to choose from a larger menu of options. Given the issues we had all year and at the TDL, I don't agree that we hand much reason to feel like we were only a goalie away from being among the top contenders.
 

trick9

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Need to find a capable goalie coach. Acquiring a goalie at the deadline would have been a gamble and likely a waste with Scott Murray in charge. He needs to go, quickly.

Time to give CMM a sweater. Would like to see Snively too soon when he's back in shape.
 
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CapitalsCupReality

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they will be the flyers in just a few seasons anyway. It all depends on how you value low end draft picks that wont be ready for years and wont matter any way. The caps were at a crossroads when they resigned backstrom and ovi. they chose to continue with the core. that is a 4 5 year committment to trying to win. that means that none of the prospects that were currently with the team or any of the draft picks for atleast 3 years matter in any way. If management looks at it any other way then they shouldnt have resigned those two and went scorched earth then. Do you believe Lapierre will win you a cup?
There’s a business to run. The Caps don’t want to miss the playoffs 6 of the next 10 years (Like the Flyers just did) and be lightyears further from the Cup than they are today.

They need CMM and Jimmy types to bridge the gap after Ovy (and likely infuse the team next year and his last seasons), but hey, give me a top 20C or D in return and we can talk.

…and no HP by himself will not win me a Cup.…..let me ask this? Do you want to go all in, likely lose out still, and have nothing left to give for Ovy?

They are going to try and stretch it out, stay a playoff team, filling the seats at top $, spend to the cap, hoping to get hot, like they did in 2018.
 
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CapitalsCupReality

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This was pretty much my thesis going into the trade deadline.

I'm not going to harp on this until they are eliminated from the postseason because they are still in decent enough shape to advance. But I do wonder why people think Connor McMichael, for instance, is some untouchable asset when the coach won't play him despite an injury to a top 6 forward.
untouchable is a gross exaggeration. anyone not Ovechkin is available for the right price.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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Flyers went to the cup with Leighton? Spelling. who managed to vancek himself on Kanes Cup winning goal.

Agree with you that the team starts each game with the mindset of we will win in spite of our putrid goaltending. then vanecek allows one from the pressbox and you can actually see the team punt the game mentally. The funniest part is its not even Vannys fault. He is on the team for the simple of reason of he was the only healthy goalie 2 training camps ago. Imo management had no intention of relying on him but they didnt realize samsonov sucked as bad as he does and would never claim the starter job.
Surprised anyone remembers….he was supposed to be the Hershey platoon starter….almost an afterthought that year….if Sammy had raised his game similarly, we would be ok right now in net.

Why does the goalie coach get no credit for Vanny overachieving I wonder?
 

g00n

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Always happy with a road split is my take.

Right. If they can win one of the next two and play like they did the first 4 periods, that shows progress over the past few playoff disappointments. There's some hope.

But if the next 2 games look more like the last 2 periods then you have to believe G1 was a mirage and we just caught FLA napping.

Losing Willy really hurts. But every team has dinged up guys so that can't be the excuse.
 

HTFN

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Surprised anyone remembers….he was supposed to be the Hershey platoon starter….almost an afterthought that year….if Sammy had raised his game similarly, we would be ok right now in net.

Why does the goalie coach get no credit for Vanny overachieving I wonder?
because he probably isn't. he started ahead of his time but he wasn't dead in the water as a prospect and is arguably right where he's expected to be no matter what.

if anything when you look at his tools and what he gives up it makes you think another coach could maybe solidify and create a decent backup out of the guy, because he's flashed some quality here and there
 

Caps8112

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Surprised anyone remembers….he was supposed to be the Hershey platoon starter….almost an afterthought that year….if Sammy had raised his game similarly, we would be ok right now in net.

Why does the goalie coach get no credit for Vanny overachieving I wonder
?
That can be looked at 2 ways. Does the coach get credit for lifting vanny to where he is or blamed for not making him better
 
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