RD Timothy Liljegren - Rogle BK, SHL (2017, 17th, TOR) II

[biotk]

Gah, what's the use of bringing up percentages when there are only 7 points between both players? Anyway, Dahlin's postseason performance in that season is what separates him from Liljegren substantially.

Cognitive dissonance is what allows you to believe that your ignorant comment was not completely ignorant.

 

[biotk]

Dahlins regular season performance alone seperates himself from Liljegren substantially. :

Offensively that was not the case and that is what we were talking about. Really simple math. If you choose to ignore that be my guess.

 

[TDK67]

People seem to be missing context when talking about scoring between Dahlin & Liljegren

-16 yo Dahlin was playing on the 3rd best SHL team (of 14) which scored the 4th most goals at 142
- 16 yo Liljegren was playing on the 4th worst SHL team (or 11th best of 14) which scored the 4th least (or 11th most) goals at 125

When he has some of the best SHL offensive numbers among all 16 year olds and among d-men, how are people so sure he doesn't have a high offensive ceiling?

Not to mention, actually watching the kid play on Wednesday, you could see he oozes offensive potential with his great shot, great passing, and unreal skating/mobility. The knock that he doesn't defer to forwards as much in the offensive zone is true to an extent. What I saw on Wednesday was a guy who started off making great passes with great vision in the o-zone but as the game wore on (and as plays continued to die on his teammates' sticks) he opted to shoot more than pass. And even still, as the d-man roaming the blueline, he managed to actually get the puck through bodies and on the net repeatedly and wasn't just listlessly wasting shots that missed the net.

Maybe I saw one good game or maybe my expectations were low with all the HF experts saying he has huge holes and will bust, but he was really impressive and frequently the best player on the ice in a game with several top 10 picks from 2017. He absolutely oozes sky high potential with some of his raw talents but obviously needs work.

 

[Szechwan]

Not saying it can't happen, but Liljegren would have gone much higher if he had the potential to be a top pair that many in this thread think. He has the skill level to do it, absolutely- but the probability of him putting it together is getting waaaaaay over-inflated in here.

Most players drafted in the back half of the 1st are not impact players - if they were projected to be, they'd go earlier. Simple as that. Just be happy you have an intriguing prospect with solid potential and see how it all plays out. He'll be a fun one to track, regardless of where he ends up.

 

[93LEAFS]

Not saying it can't happen, but Liljegren would have gone much higher if he had the potential to be a top pair that many in this thread think. He has the skill level to do it, absolutely- but the probability of him putting it together is getting waaaaaay over-inflated in here.

Most players drafted in the back half of the 1st are not impact players - if they were projected to be, they'd go earlier. Simple as that. Just be happy you have an intriguing prospect with solid potential and see how it all plays out. He'll be a fun one to track, regardless of where he ends up.

Tons of players taken in that range have that potential, but the likelihood varies. Look at how many top pair defenders were taken in the 2nd round or later. Weber, Subban, Josi, Letang, Keith, Parayako, Slavin, Faulk, etc. Liljegren absolutely has top pair upside, but it's far from a lock to happen.

 

[Future]

I didn't imply anything. The poster above said Liljegren might have middle pairing upside and you reacted negatively to that. I only said that projection is great considering draft position. He may have higher upside, sure

My point was that Liljegren has not been an elite offensive defenseman at the SHL level. That's it. Current ability versus projection

Then, compare Dahlin's playoffs against Liljegren's regular season. That's what I'm doing. Dahlin turned it up offensively in the games that matter most. Dahlin's already impressed everyone

What 16/17 year old defenseman has EVER been an elite offensive defenseman at the SHL level? Can you show me even one?

The fact that his offensive ability is doubted here is pretty funny. He has all the offensive tools you could ask for and has a history of generating a ton of shots from the point. That is a trait that every elite offensive defenseman in the NHL possesses and what separates the Karlsson's from the Rielly's.

I'd like to ask what in Liljegren's game offensively is holding him back?

 

[TDK67]

Not saying it can't happen, but Liljegren would have gone much higher if he had the potential to be a top pair that many in this thread think. He has the skill level to do it, absolutely- but the probability of him putting it together is getting waaaaaay over-inflated in here.

Most players drafted in the back half of the 1st are not impact players - if they were projected to be, they'd go earlier. Simple as that. Just be happy you have an intriguing prospect with solid potential and see how it all plays out. He'll be a fun one to track, regardless of where he ends up.

Maybe you need to reword the bolded because right now it looks like you're saying Liljegren has the skill to become a top pair defender but not the potential to become a top pair defender.

...that doesn't make any sense. His "skills" are what gives him the "potential" to be a #1 guy. Potential doesn't stem from nothing.

Other than that, the appeal to draft order or scout ranking is silly when considering plenty of mid to late first round picks become stars as well as 2nd+ round guys. Karlsson would have gone 1st overall if scouts/teams were good at projecting future success so I don't see how/why Liljegren's ranking means he doesn't have the "potential" to be a #1 guy.

 

[Drew311]

He will never be a catalyst offensively though, I think it's incredibly obvious he isn't some elite offensive talent. Erik Brannstrom, for example, is far more talented in the offensive zone, Liljegren can absolutely can be a middle pairing guy who plays on teams top PP or second PP.

Then why was he rated a top 2 draft pick before going down with mono? All of the scouting reports in 2015/2016 raved about his offensive ability.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Not saying it can't happen, but Liljegren would have gone much higher if he had the potential to be a top pair that many in this thread think. He has the skill level to do it, absolutely- but the probability of him putting it together is getting waaaaaay over-inflated in here.

Most players drafted in the back half of the 1st are not impact players - if they were projected to be, they'd go earlier. Simple as that. Just be happy you have an intriguing prospect with solid potential and see how it all plays out. He'll be a fun one to track, regardless of where he ends up.

That's the intriguing thing, Liljegren was projected to go much higher then had a bad draft season where he got very ill. We don't know if the bad season was attributable to the illness or to the criticisms of "low IQ" and "no toolbox", and only time is going to tell that, but if by the halfway point of this year he's looking like the prospect that he was expected to be coming into this year then I do think he will have restored his value to that of a top 5 prospect

 

[Atomos2]

Liljegren scores against Canada

 

[hradekbr]

Liljegren scores against Canada

Improvement from him too. Got the puck off his stick quickly and put it on net. He's still holding on to the puck a little too long when transitioning between zones with his exceptional skating, but overall he's been impressive the last week.

 

[Atomos2]

Improvement from him too. Got the puck off his stick quickly and put it on net. He's still holding on to the puck a little too long when transitioning between zones with his exceptional skating, but overall he's been impressive the last week.

Brannstrom looks really good too. First time seeing him and he looks great.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

Kid can fire the puck. Snap shot shelf from the point

 

[zharkenby]

Highest PPG as a 16-year-old in the SHL in the last 30 years. Not highest PPG as a D, but highest PPG, period. 67% more Pts than Dahlin despite playing in fewer games as 16-year-olds.

Second highest PPG as a 17-year-old D in the SHL in the last 30 years. That was achieved during his terrible season.

Pretty ignorant comment.

This isn't true... Adam larsson had 17 in 49 as a 16 yo

 

[93LEAFS]

This isn't true... Adam larsson had 17 in 49 as a 16 yo

No, he didn't. He did in his draft-1 season, which was his 17-year-old season (because he's a late birthday). In his 16-year-old season, he only played one SHL game.

 

[AppsSyl]

 

[whitstifier]

What 16/17 year old defenseman has EVER been an elite offensive defenseman at the SHL level? Can you show me even one?

The fact that his offensive ability is doubted here is pretty funny. He has all the offensive tools you could ask for and has a history of generating a ton of shots from the point. That is a trait that every elite offensive defenseman in the NHL possesses and what separates the Karlsson's from the Rielly's.

I'd like to ask what in Liljegren's game offensively is holding him back?

I was responding to the comment that Liljegren is a high-end offensive talent in the SHL. Well, he's not currently--the production isn't there. I'm not doubting his ability against peers or NHL upside

Cognitive dissonance is what allows you to believe that your ignorant comment was not completely ignorant.

Age 16 SHL:
Liljegren had 5 pts/19 games
Dahlin had 3 pts/26 games (Playoffs 5 pts/14 games)

You don't see how asinine it is to compare P/G between two players with so few points and games played?

 

[Critical13]

What a shot.

His skating today has been ridiculous too.

 

[DownGoesMcDavid]

Liljigren looks really raw.

Branstrom looks about 100x better in every aspect especially skating and iq.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Liljegren with an assist now as well. 1+1 so far

 

[Critical13]

He will never be a catalyst offensively though, I think it's incredibly obvious he isn't some elite offensive talent. Erik Brannstrom, for example, is far more talented in the offensive zone, Liljegren can absolutely can be a middle pairing guy who plays on teams top PP or second PP.

How is Brannstrom far more talented? lol Can we please talk about Lil in this thread? Brannstrom has his own thread.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Liljegren with an assist now as well. 1+1 so far

He's looked great out there again today.

 

[Leafidelity]

Liljigren looks really raw.

Branstrom looks about 100x better in every aspect especially skating and iq.

Is this Craig or Gords HF account?

 

[firstemperor]

Liljigren looks really raw.

Branstrom looks about 100x better in every aspect especially skating and iq.

Would seem that way too if you watched this game listening to Button/Miller.

 

[DownGoesMcDavid]

How is Brannstrom far more talented? lol

Let me count the ways.

Skating .. yep
Iq. Yep
Defensive gane yep

The only thing liljgren has on brannstrom is maybe the wrist shot. Otherwise brannstrom is by far the more superior prospect not only to liljgren but also to makar.