Player Discussion Rasmus Dahlin Part 3- D (1st Overall, 2018, Frölunda HC, SHL)

[Old Navy Goat]

No. Because identical twins are weird!

Tell me about it had those a few nights ago

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Tell me about it had those a few nights ago

Well this one time in band camp…

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Well this one time in band camp…

I live in Lala land where 18yo girls think I'm their lotto ticket to a better life

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I live in Lala land where 18yo girls think I'm their lotto ticket to a better life

Oh I know how the Philippines is. Hell, they think I am, and I’m someone who is slightly above “drug addict” on the ladder of life

 

[EichHart]

No it isn’t. The most important asset for a player is their mental game. How fast they can process the game. Which is impacted by their acumen and instincts offensively and defensively. Those are mental “skills” not a physical ones.

Its why an average skater like Asplund is a much better player than Bjork. Even though Bjork is a better and much faster skater.

Goes both ways. Reinhart is a smarter player than Eichel, but because Eichel is more explosive with better skating ability he is the better player. Imagine Reinharts brain with Eichels skating. Then you get those generational players that have both like Orr.

 

[Bendium]

Bryson had the trust of the Providence coaching staff and was being used as a PKer (hell in ALL situations) in his second and third NCAA season. He has more experience at it - and in particular being successful at it - than Dahlin because he is three years older.

This is exactly the reason that I believe ALL draft picks, regardless of where they are drafted, should come up through the ranks, playing at each level until they are dominating them playing in all situations and high minutes. It gives playtime, confidence, maturity, and experience that is not easily attained at the NHL level. Additionally, the NHL plays an 82 game schedule to maximize revenue, while all leagues below that play much fewer games, which allows for more practice and development time. At the NHL level they are supposed to already be somewhat polished, so that they can mostly play the game, not work on their game. Dahlin never should have begun his career in the NHL, and as painful as it may be, could probably use more time off for practice and development. Either give him the remainder of the year in the AHL, or start sitting him every other game, with a strong practice and development regiment built in.

 

[Bendium]

No it isn’t. The most important asset for a player is their mental game. How fast they can process the game. Which is impacted by their acumen and instincts offensively and defensively. Those are mental “skills” not a physical ones.

Its why an average skater like Asplund is a much better player than Bjork. Even though Bjork is a better and much faster skater.

I find your argument interesting Joshjull. The speed of mental processing and decision making you are arguing is one half of the athletic definition of quickness. A discussion we have had before, yet you continually ignore the other half of the definition, which is the immediate force that player can apply in the direction mentally chosen. There is literally a burst thought, and burst speed component to the actual translation of true effective quickness on the field of play. In some way, you argue both points in your example of Aspland and Bjork.

Elite quickness certainly comes from being able to both process the game fast, and able to burst into action. We could argue whether Dahlin has the fast game processing, but there is no question he has below average burst. It can, and must be worked on.

 

[Bendium]

But they're not with Bryson and Dahlin’s respective defensive acumens . Thats kind of the point.

You are correct. Bryson both processes the game faster, and is a better skater than Dahlin. Easy choice for which to play on the PK. Now why do we pay Dahlin more?

 

[joshjull]

Goes both ways. Reinhart is a smarter player than Eichel, but because Eichel is more explosive with better skating ability he is the better player. Imagine Reinharts brain with Eichels skating. Then you get those generational players that have both like Orr.

You’re only part right. Sam had a higher defensive acumen or IQ. But offensively they’d were at worst on par. Jack made a lot of plays based on his vision and creativity. Combined with his powerful skating, he was a force offensively in a way what Sam couldn’t be.

Jack’s amazing skating didn’t do much to mitigate his struggles defensively. He needed to learn how to play better defensive and work at developing better defensive habits. Ironic in light of the belief some have Dahlin’s skating is the issue.

 

[2 others]

Ironic in light of the belief some have Dahlin’s skating is the issue.

Come on, admit that he could be a bit faster. When he exits the zone, or dangles past guys, and then sometimes they are glued to him. Those are the moments i wish he had more burst. He's very strong on the puck, exceptionally strong, so he gets past them or holds them off.
i.e. the way he forced himself past Hedman was a very strong move, and it showed two things: excellent skating (edge work) and strong on the puck. However, he would need less strength if his first strides would be a little quicker.

 

[valet]

I find your argument interesting Joshjull. The speed of mental processing and decision making you are arguing is one half of the athletic definition of quickness. A discussion we have had before, yet you continually ignore the other half of the definition, which is the immediate force that player can apply in the direction mentally chosen. There is literally a burst thought, and burst speed component to the actual translation of true effective quickness on the field of play. In some way, you argue both points in your example of Aspland and Bjork.

Elite quickness certainly comes from being able to both process the game fast, and able to burst into action. We could argue whether Dahlin has the fast game processing, but there is no question he has below average burst. It can, and must be worked on.

We can’t really say he has ‘below average burst’ unless you can produce a measurement of some kind. Otherwise your argument is pretty baseless. I honestly don’t think his skating is an issue at all for the sort of game he plays. Being smart and deceptive with the puck are far more important elements, which he carries in abundance. He’s never gonna blow by people like McDavid…. no one is.

 

[2 others]

I'm convinced he will realize this,and hopefully after next off-season we will see first results. I can't imagine him not getting faster. He's too dedicated and will figure it out.

 

[Bendium]

We can’t really say he has ‘below average burst’ unless you can produce a measurement of some kind. Otherwise your argument is pretty baseless. I honestly don’t think his skating is an issue at all for the sort of game he plays. Being smart and deceptive with the puck are far more important elements, which he carries in abundance. He’s never gonna blow by people like McDavid…. no one is.

This is an argument about one of his offensive skills, which people keep going back to when they cannot escape the problems with his defense.

Also, if you just watch hockey, you can see his lack of burst compared to other good players on the ice. It is pretty evident if you are willing to look.

Also, I love it when his smart deceptive play ends up in our own net. "Rasmus Ristolainen likes this"

 

[MarkusKetterer]

This is an argument about one of his offensive skills, which people keep going back to when they cannot escape the problems with his defense.

Also, if you just watch hockey, you can see his lack of burst compared to other good players on the ice. It is pretty evident if you are willing to look.

Also, I love it when his smart deceptive play ends up in our own net. "Rasmus Ristolainen likes this"

We need to hook him up with the Leafs skating coach. Or former skating coach. I dunno what Barb Underhill is doing this now.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

 

[valet]

This is an argument about one of his offensive skills, which people keep going back to when they cannot escape the problems with his defense.

Also, if you just watch hockey, you can see his lack of burst compared to other good players on the ice. It is pretty evident if you are willing to look.

Also, I love it when his smart deceptive play ends up in our own net. "Rasmus Ristolainen likes this"

So now we’re talking about defending? Not skating? Even if you want to totally abandon your previous argument, you’re still wrong. Eating top pair minutes w butcher stapled to his side the first run of games he is a positive GF% and CF% player at 5v5. He’s not a finished product defensively but he certainly has not been a ‘problem’.

I honestly don’t get why you’re going so far out of your way to say he’s been bad. Comparing him to risto? Seriously? That’s laughable. Dahlin has played really well this year, and although there are still things he can improve on, I am personally quite pleased with his maturation as a player so far.

 

[joshjull]

Come on, admit that he could be a bit faster. When he exits the zone, or dangles past guys, and then sometimes they are glued to him. Those are the moments i wish he had more burst. He's very strong on the puck, exceptionally strong, so he gets past them or holds them off.
i.e. the way he forced himself past Hedman was a very strong move, and it showed two things: excellent skating (edge work) and strong on the puck. However, he would need less strength if his first strides would be a little quicker.

This is getting a bit ridiculous

What Bendium said about Dahlin (he has below average “burst”) is his opinion. Its not a fact.

Yet you’re acting as if myself and others in this debate are supposed to accept it as fact. Then argue from that point of view or try to disprove. Why? Its just an opinion. There is no objective measurement or way we can conclusively determine this. So we all have to use the eye test and come to our subjective conclusions about his skating.

I don’t think Bendium’s opinion is an accurate description of Dahlin’s skating. Nor do I accept the premise that his skating is the cause of his problems. Because of that I don’t believe that working on his skating is going to meaningfully improve his game. I think his issues are mental and about bad decision making. If he improved those things his game would improve a lot. Which is why I made the comment about Jack. The issues he needed to fix in his game were also about decisions making and not skating related.

Its not that getting better at skating couldn’t help him. It would help any player. Its that its not going to help that much if he doesn’t start making better decisions.


You don’t have to agree with my position but thats the pov I’m bringing in to this.

 

[joshjull]

We need to hook him up with the Leafs skating coach. Or former skating coach. I dunno what Barb Underhill is doing this now.

Isn’t she meeting Strider at the Prancing Pony? Or is that another Underhill?

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Isn’t she meeting Strider at the Prancing Pony? Or is that another Underhill?

This seems like a movie reference I don’t get. In my defence, if it is, I was only allowed to watch Disney movies growing up, and f*** that being a teenaged boy in the 90s

 

[Old Navy Goat]

This seems like a movie reference I don’t get. In my defence, if it is, I was only allowed to watch Disney movies growing up, and f*** that being a teenaged boy in the 90s

It was a Lord of the Rings reference

 

[Buffaloed]

Goes both ways. Reinhart is a smarter player than Eichel, but because Eichel is more explosive with better skating ability he is the better player. Imagine Reinharts brain with Eichels skating. Then you get those generational players that have both like Orr.

I don't think Reinhart has a hockey intelligence advantage over Eichel. Eichel reads and anticipates the play just as well.

Skinner could be a superstar if he had the intelligence. Afinogenov was held back by his lack of hockey smarts too.

But since Dahlin is a dman, let's talk about Brandon Guhle. One of the best skating dman ever drafted by the Sabres. He's not lacking in any physical tools and can't crack an NHL lineup.

 

[Gabrielor]

With a sample size of two now, if Dahlin scores a point shot to tie a game at 4, we will lose in the final 10 seconds of regulation.

Bust.

 

[JLewyB]

Skating and reaching on defense. His top speed and his first step are below average but if okposo can get faster so can he. He needs to stop stretching his stick out. Its a newer development and it annoys me. Get more compact and engage the puck handler fully, none of this half ass shit will do. Those are the 2 negatives everything else is positive. Last night, i got excited everytime he got the puck and he didn’t disappoint. Some of the moves at the point where he got past the first defender were unique like hes the only player in the world who can do it.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Skating and reaching on defense. His top speed and his first step are below average but if okposo can get faster so can he. He needs to stop stretching his stick out. Its a newer development and it annoys me. Get more compact and engage the puck handler fully, none of this half ass shit will do. Those are the 2 negatives everything else is positive. Last night, i got excited everytime he got the puck and he didn’t disappoint. Some of the moves at the point where he got past the first defender were unique like hes the only player in the world who can do it.

His top speed is fine, he showed it when he went behind the net and turned on the jets to transition up ice. He appears slow as he's like Eichel in that he prefers to slow the pace to open up passing lanes

 

[2 others]

His top speed is fine, he showed it when he went behind the net and turned on the jets to transition up ice. He appears slow as he's like Eichel in that he prefers to slow the pace to open up passing lanes

It's not about his top speed. It's his first steps. If he can get quicker, without compromising the rest of his elite skating, then he will be fine. Reinhart was able to become quicker years after getting drafted. It's possible.