Raptors Discussion: Raptors name Nick Nurse as new head coach

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

you got all the answers man. Get off HFBoards and turn this franchise around! This forum can be so toxic. So many knowledgeable posters and so many who just ugh.

Only in Toronto would we be complaining about a season with our most wins ever lol.

Also Derozan is our best player and he isn't 32 :s..

Let me guess, because he averages a higher PPG and made it on the cover of 2k18?

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Knowledgeable? If you were knowledgeable you would know that Lowry has been more valuable to the Raps than one trick pony DD. Lowry is a better passer, better ball handler, better rebounder, and a better shooter.

Why should we be happy about a season that ended the way it did? Even Masai wasn't happy seeing as he's fired the damn coach and everybody is available. 59 wins means squat if you did not even advance to the ECF. You have to actually make those wins count in the post season, where it really matters in the end. The 59 wins have been rendered meaningless by our exit in the playoffs.

You're missing the point though.
We won 59 games!
We're the Eastern Conference Regular Season Champs!

 

[Eyedea]

Sure.

Boston Celtics: Kyrie Irving, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Terry Rozier, Marcus Smart
Denver Nuggets: Nikola Jokic, Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr., Trey Lyles, Gary Harris
New Orleans Pelicans: Anthony Davis
Milwaukee Bucks: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Malcolm Brogdon, Jabari Parker
Utah Jazz: Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert
Philadelphia 76ers: Joel Embiid, Ben Simmons, Dario Saric, Markelle Fultz
Minnesota Timberwolves: Karl-Anthony Towns
Los Angeles Lakers: Kyle Kuzma, Lonzo Ball, Julius Randle, Brandon Ingram
Indiana Pacers: Victor Oladipo, Myles Turner, Domantas Sabonis

Celtics:
- Irving: Gifted shooter, only player we have that posts similar rates is Lowry, who is 6 years older than him. He is primed, but also struggles with injuries and lacks any cohesion on defence. When people say that the Celtics got to the ECF with their two best players injured, they also fail to see that those were their two weakest links on defence. They'll play a much more different game with him and Hayward on the court, and that might not be a good thing. And if people want to complain about Lowry being the best player/first option on a championship contender, I think you should have those same reservations with Irving.

- Brown: Vastly improved his shooting this year to where he can be considered an option, but he's still not a great ball handler and lacks the vision to create offence. Several of the Raptors youth outperformed him during the season, and much to his chagrin, he didn't actually manage to elevate his performance in the postseason despite posting higher totals.

- Tatum: Talented shooter, some might feel the need to praise the "history" he created as a rookie in these playoffs, but it's also evident that he was put into a much better position than historically great players (with many of the GOATs not making the postseason at age 20). I always saw him as the safest choice in the 2017 draft, but I'm also hung up on his ceiling. He was ISO heavy in college, and even on the Celtics it seemed to remain a common theme for him. Maybe he'll be Klay with better defence? That's probably the ceiling, but I'm also not so sure his shooting efficiency will ever reach that point.

- Rozier: Okay three point shot, mediocre playmaking skills, solid defence. I think he handled his role well once Irving got on the shelf, but he himself was badly exposed once met with the Cavs. He did a better job handling the ball in the playoffs, but I still think guys like FVV and Delon have shown better court vision thus far.

- Smart: Grit and defence are his calling cards, but he's so bad at everything else that I don't see any value in his overall game.

Nuggets:
- Jokic: I'm a big fan of Jokic, and there's really not much wrong in his game. Elite vision, able to extend to the three point line, presence on the glass. He's a beast face up and has good post moves, just not so great under the rim. Very underrated player.

- Murray: Shot well enough this season, but he's not a point guard and never should be a primary ball handler. He's also still incredibly green defensively. Since he's a Canadian kid I'll always root for him, but I don't think there's much left there ceiling wise.

- Porter Jr: Wildcard? I need to see him healthy and really don't know how his game plays since I haven't seen anything yet.

- Lyles: He has a face up game that at least came out this past season but he's still not a good enough athlete to handle defensive responsibilities at the 4. The way the game has transitioned, it's hard to see him improve in that aspect with his lack of athleticism and explosiveness.

- Harris: I feel like he's taken a bit of a step back with Murray getting more touches there. Still a dominant shooter, never will be a good defender, but he's a true shooting guard. Problem is so is Murray, and they're pigeonholing Murray into the PG spot when he's really not that type of player.

Pelicans:
- Davis: Future MVP? He should probably be leaving the Pelicans but I don't want him to go to the Celtics, for obvious reasons.

Bucks:
- Giannis: Only thing I'd say is he needs to work on his perimeter shooting in the worst way. I think he's elite in everything else, but not having that 3 as a weapon come playoff time will always hurt.

- Brogdon: Became overrated after a hot start in his rookie year, got exposed come playoff time. Not good defensively, can shoot though. He's kinda like the opposite of Powell, but still somehow the same value as a player.

- Parker: We're still talking about him? Man him and Wiggins were suppose to be the future LeBron/Melo. It didn't work out in the slightest. He's not a good player and will likely be grossly overpaid like Wiggins.

Jazz:
- Is it weird that Mitchell was the most overrated player this past season? I thought we were smarter than this, but a predominantly volume shooter that magically made a few dumb shots from almost half court because of his iso tendencies and lack of vision suddenly turned him into rookie of the year. Gobert is a beast though, should've won DPOY.

With regards to the 76ers, I'll take them all as a whole, because I think they have the most upside of any team. The major problem with them is obviously health, but also perimeter shooting, especially with Redick likely gone. They're such a weird case because they have two guys with broken shots, and their enigmatic centre has played 94 regular season games since being drafted four years ago.

I'd keep going but I think the Wolves, Lakers (as of now), and Pacers lack a depth of talent. As DJQ and myself have alluded to in the past, Raps were 9 deep in players with 1+ VORP. Minnesota had four, with a couple guys that they lean on in the minus, Pacers had four, and Lakers had five (with none over 2). Celts, 76ers, Rockets, and Jazz were the closest with six, though in the 76ers case two of their guys are free agents in Amir Johnson and JJ Redick.

The Raps have talent, much more than the bunch you listed. Obviously Giannis, Davis, Jokic, KAT, Simmons, Gobert, and Irving are better individuals, and likely Embiid and Tatum themselves, but I just see so much more potential value when it comes to Siakam, OG, Wright, and FVV over the others listed because of their overall games. The comments that I've read from Nurse too also speaks to optimism regarding JV and even Poeltl, and I think he'll really try to unlock and unleash a more creative and engaged system. You can say "Nurse isn't a new voice" and "the team has reached its ceiling" but Casey never spoke about innovation, and the need to try new things.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Celtics:
- Irving: Gifted shooter, only player we have that posts similar rates is Lowry, who is 6 years older than him. He is primed, but also struggles with injuries and lacks any cohesion on defence. When people say that the Celtics got to the ECF with their two best players injured, they also fail to see that those were their two weakest links on defence. They'll play a much more different game with him and Hayward on the court, and that might not be a good thing. And if people want to complain about Lowry being the best player/first option on a championship contender, I think you should have those same reservations with Irving.

- Brown: Vastly improved his shooting this year to where he can be considered an option, but he's still not a great ball handler and lacks the vision to create offence. Several of the Raptors youth outperformed him during the season, and much to his chagrin, he didn't actually manage to elevate his performance in the postseason despite posting higher totals.

- Tatum: Talented shooter, some might feel the need to praise the "history" he created as a rookie in these playoffs, but it's also evident that he was put into a much better position than historically great players (with many of the GOATs not making the postseason at age 20). I always saw him as the safest choice in the 2017 draft, but I'm also hung up on his ceiling. He was ISO heavy in college, and even on the Celtics it seemed to remain a common theme for him. Maybe he'll be Klay with better defence? That's probably the ceiling, but I'm also not so sure his shooting efficiency will ever reach that point.

- Rozier: Okay three point shot, mediocre playmaking skills, solid defence. I think he handled his role well once Irving got on the shelf, but he himself was badly exposed once met with the Cavs. He did a better job handling the ball in the playoffs, but I still think guys like FVV and Delon have shown better court vision thus far.

- Smart: Grit and defence are his calling cards, but he's so bad at everything else that I don't see any value in his overall game.

Nuggets:
- Jokic: I'm a big fan of Jokic, and there's really not much wrong in his game. Elite vision, able to extend to the three point line, presence on the glass. He's a beast face up and has good post moves, just not so great under the rim. Very underrated player.

- Murray: Shot well enough this season, but he's not a point guard and never should be a primary ball handler. He's also still incredibly green defensively. Since he's a Canadian kid I'll always root for him, but I don't think there's much left there ceiling wise.

- Porter Jr: Wildcard? I need to see him healthy and really don't know how his game plays since I haven't seen anything yet.

- Lyles: He has a face up game that at least came out this past season but he's still not a good enough athlete to handle defensive responsibilities at the 4. The way the game has transitioned, it's hard to see him improve in that aspect with his lack of athleticism and explosiveness.

- Harris: I feel like he's taken a bit of a step back with Murray getting more touches there. Still a dominant shooter, never will be a good defender, but he's a true shooting guard. Problem is so is Murray, and they're pigeonholing Murray into the PG spot when he's really not that type of player.

Pelicans:
- Davis: Future MVP? He should probably be leaving the Pelicans but I don't want him to go to the Celtics, for obvious reasons.

Bucks:
- Giannis: Only thing I'd say is he needs to work on his perimeter shooting in the worst way. I think he's elite in everything else, but not having that 3 as a weapon come playoff time will always hurt.

- Brogdon: Became overrated after a hot start in his rookie year, got exposed come playoff time. Not good defensively, can shoot though. He's kinda like the opposite of Powell, but still somehow the same value as a player.

- Parker: We're still talking about him? Man him and Wiggins were suppose to be the future LeBron/Melo. It didn't work out in the slightest. He's not a good player and will likely be grossly overpaid like Wiggins.

Jazz:
- Is it weird that Mitchell was the most overrated player this past season? I thought we were smarter than this, but a predominantly volume shooter that magically made a few dumb shots from almost half court because of his iso tendencies and lack of vision suddenly turned him into rookie of the year. Gobert is a beast though, should've won DPOY.

With regards to the 76ers, I'll take them all as a whole, because I think they have the most upside of any team. The major problem with them is obviously health, but also perimeter shooting, especially with Redick likely gone. They're such a weird case because they have two guys with broken shots, and their enigmatic centre has played 94 regular season games since being drafted four years ago.

I'd keep going but I think the Wolves, Lakers (as of now), and Pacers lack a depth of talent. As DJQ and myself have alluded to in the past, Raps were 9 deep in players with 1+ VORP. Minnesota had four, with a couple guys that they lean on in the minus, Pacers had four, and Lakers had five (with none over 2). Celts, 76ers, Rockets, and Jazz were the closest with six, though in the 76ers case two of their guys are free agents in Amir Johnson and JJ Redick.

The Raps have talent, much more than the bunch you listed. Obviously Giannis, Davis, Jokic, KAT, Simmons, Gobert, and Irving are better individuals, and likely Embiid and Tatum themselves, but I just see so much more potential value when it comes to Siakam, OG, Wright, and FVV over the others listed because of their overall games. The comments that I've read from Nurse too also speaks to optimism regarding JV and even Poeltl, and I think he'll really try to unlock and unleash a more creative and engaged system. You can say "Nurse isn't a new voice" and "the team has reached its ceiling" but Casey never spoke about innovation, and the need to try new things.

Thanks for replying.

First off just to address some general points and then later I'll get into individual players

you can't use a singular advanced stat like VORP (slightly different but BPM) and rank players off of that

Are you telling me that Damian Lillard (5.9) is better than Giannis (5.4), Anthony Davis (4.9), Kevin Durant (4.5), Steph Curry (4.4)

Is Otto Porter the 20th best player in the league this season? Is Andre Drummond (5.0) better than Davis, Durant, Curry?

VORP is useful but flawed without context

It's been proven time and time again. It's a star or superstar driven league. I'm taking quality over quantity everyday. You'd rather have Siakam, OG, Wright and FVV over Anthony Davis or Giannis Antetokoumpo? No chance in my mind. IMO it's much easier to add good players around a great player than to add a great player around good players

I have no problem if you're positive about Nurse but actions speaker louder than words. It's all hypothetical at this point. Not all the time but a majority of the time, fans will look positively when a new coach comes in because their flaws are hidden and so only their positive traits are on display.

 

[Kurtz]

You conveniently stopped at 3 years. Nice!

The greatest player of all-time barely beat a mediocre Pacers team in 7 games and a Celtics team that was missing their 2 best players. BTW The Celtics best or 2nd best player in the playoffs just turned 20 years old. And then obviously got swept in the finals. Meanwhile, the greatest Raptors team of all-time couldn't even win 1 game.

Check this out. The Pacers in 1 series has won more games against the Cavs than the Raptors have in 3 playoff series combined.

What other excuses are there?

3 years is a standard sample size. 4 years ago, the Raptors team was completely different - I believe we've only retained 3 players from that squad.

You stated that ANA has been more successful in the playoffs, and I've simply debunked that erroneous statement with the fact that Toronto won twice as many playoff series as ANA has over the past 3 years.

I don't know why you're more impressed about a team losing in 7 games vs a team that actually wins their series. No team has won more playoff series in the East that the Raptors over the past 3 years other than the Cavs.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

3 years is a standard sample size. 4 years ago, the Raptors team was completely different - I believe we've only retained 3 players from that squad.

You stated that ANA has been more successful in the playoffs, and I've simply debunked that erroneous statement with the fact that Toronto won twice as many playoff series as ANA has over the past 3 years.

I don't know why you're more impressed about a team losing in 7 games vs a team that actually wins their series. No team has won more playoff series in the East that the Raptors over the past 3 years other than the Cavs.

No it's simply a # of years that fit your narrative. 2 years ago, it was still JV, DeRozan and Lowry. Wright was on the team but saw almost no playoff mins, Powell was on the team and played but didn't play this time around and Bebe pretty irrelevant. From 2 years ago, Carroll gone, Ross gone, Patterson gone, Biyombo gone, CoJo gone, Scola gone, James Johnson gone.

So what I've learned is that Getting Swept = Losing in 7

 

[Kurtz]

No it's simply a # of years that fit your narrative. 2 years ago, it was still JV, DeRozan and Lowry. Wright was on the team but saw almost no playoff mins, Powell was on the team and played but didn't play this time around and Bebe pretty irrelevant. From 2 years ago, Carroll gone, Ross gone, Patterson gone, Biyombo gone, CoJo gone, Scola gone, James Johnson gone.

So what I've learned is that Getting Swept = Losing in 7

No, what you've learned is that Ana hasn't been more successful in the playoffs in recent years, despite what you've claimed.

But what sample size would you like to use, if 3 years is not to your liking? Should we go back to before Masai became a GM? Should we focus just on the recent year where yes, the Raptors were swept in the 2nd round...and ANA was swept in the first?

Please, by all means, pick a sample size.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Celtics:
- Irving: Gifted shooter, only player we have that posts similar rates is Lowry, who is 6 years older than him. He is primed, but also struggles with injuries and lacks any cohesion on defence. When people say that the Celtics got to the ECF with their two best players injured, they also fail to see that those were their two weakest links on defence. They'll play a much more different game with him and Hayward on the court, and that might not be a good thing. And if people want to complain about Lowry being the best player/first option on a championship contender, I think you should have those same reservations with Irving.

- Brown: Vastly improved his shooting this year to where he can be considered an option, but he's still not a great ball handler and lacks the vision to create offence. Several of the Raptors youth outperformed him during the season, and much to his chagrin, he didn't actually manage to elevate his performance in the postseason despite posting higher totals.

- Tatum: Talented shooter, some might feel the need to praise the "history" he created as a rookie in these playoffs, but it's also evident that he was put into a much better position than historically great players (with many of the GOATs not making the postseason at age 20). I always saw him as the safest choice in the 2017 draft, but I'm also hung up on his ceiling. He was ISO heavy in college, and even on the Celtics it seemed to remain a common theme for him. Maybe he'll be Klay with better defence? That's probably the ceiling, but I'm also not so sure his shooting efficiency will ever reach that point.

- Rozier: Okay three point shot, mediocre playmaking skills, solid defence. I think he handled his role well once Irving got on the shelf, but he himself was badly exposed once met with the Cavs. He did a better job handling the ball in the playoffs, but I still think guys like FVV and Delon have shown better court vision thus far.

- Smart: Grit and defence are his calling cards, but he's so bad at everything else that I don't see any value in his overall game.

Nuggets:
- Jokic: I'm a big fan of Jokic, and there's really not much wrong in his game. Elite vision, able to extend to the three point line, presence on the glass. He's a beast face up and has good post moves, just not so great under the rim. Very underrated player.

- Murray: Shot well enough this season, but he's not a point guard and never should be a primary ball handler. He's also still incredibly green defensively. Since he's a Canadian kid I'll always root for him, but I don't think there's much left there ceiling wise.

- Porter Jr: Wildcard? I need to see him healthy and really don't know how his game plays since I haven't seen anything yet.

- Lyles: He has a face up game that at least came out this past season but he's still not a good enough athlete to handle defensive responsibilities at the 4. The way the game has transitioned, it's hard to see him improve in that aspect with his lack of athleticism and explosiveness.

- Harris: I feel like he's taken a bit of a step back with Murray getting more touches there. Still a dominant shooter, never will be a good defender, but he's a true shooting guard. Problem is so is Murray, and they're pigeonholing Murray into the PG spot when he's really not that type of player.

Pelicans:
- Davis: Future MVP? He should probably be leaving the Pelicans but I don't want him to go to the Celtics, for obvious reasons.

Bucks:
- Giannis: Only thing I'd say is he needs to work on his perimeter shooting in the worst way. I think he's elite in everything else, but not having that 3 as a weapon come playoff time will always hurt.

- Brogdon: Became overrated after a hot start in his rookie year, got exposed come playoff time. Not good defensively, can shoot though. He's kinda like the opposite of Powell, but still somehow the same value as a player.

- Parker: We're still talking about him? Man him and Wiggins were suppose to be the future LeBron/Melo. It didn't work out in the slightest. He's not a good player and will likely be grossly overpaid like Wiggins.

Jazz:
- Is it weird that Mitchell was the most overrated player this past season? I thought we were smarter than this, but a predominantly volume shooter that magically made a few dumb shots from almost half court because of his iso tendencies and lack of vision suddenly turned him into rookie of the year. Gobert is a beast though, should've won DPOY.

With regards to the 76ers, I'll take them all as a whole, because I think they have the most upside of any team. The major problem with them is obviously health, but also perimeter shooting, especially with Redick likely gone. They're such a weird case because they have two guys with broken shots, and their enigmatic centre has played 94 regular season games since being drafted four years ago.

I'd keep going but I think the Wolves, Lakers (as of now), and Pacers lack a depth of talent. As DJQ and myself have alluded to in the past, Raps were 9 deep in players with 1+ VORP. Minnesota had four, with a couple guys that they lean on in the minus, Pacers had four, and Lakers had five (with none over 2). Celts, 76ers, Rockets, and Jazz were the closest with six, though in the 76ers case two of their guys are free agents in Amir Johnson and JJ Redick.

The Raps have talent, much more than the bunch you listed. Obviously Giannis, Davis, Jokic, KAT, Simmons, Gobert, and Irving are better individuals, and likely Embiid and Tatum themselves, but I just see so much more potential value when it comes to Siakam, OG, Wright, and FVV over the others listed because of their overall games. The comments that I've read from Nurse too also speaks to optimism regarding JV and even Poeltl, and I think he'll really try to unlock and unleash a more creative and engaged system. You can say "Nurse isn't a new voice" and "the team has reached its ceiling" but Casey never spoke about innovation, and the need to try new things.

Kyrie Irving: I don't understand this narrative that the Celtics are going to be worse with Irving and Hayward. We can actually evaluate Kyrie based on the 60 games he played this season. The team had a record of 14-8 without him and 41-19 with him. Where were the Celtics in the standing when he went down and where did they finish by game 82. He also had a positive NET ORTG.

Jaylen Brown: I would take Jaylen Brown over any of the youngsters on the Raps. You mentioned all the flaws that Brown has yet OG, a player that you praised has all the same flaws but far worse. But no mention.

He shot just under 40% (which BTW is higher than OG on a much larger volume). 39.5% is elite but unlike OG, he's not simply a spot up shooter. Brown is actually a very good straight line driver and is an excellent defender. You mention OG being only 20, well Brown is older than him by less than a year. He's a year younger than Poeltl, 2 years younger than FVV and Siakam and 4 years younger than Wright.

You can say Brown didn't elevate his game in the post-season. Well post-season at 21 is better than any post-season DeRozan has had in his entire career.

Jayson Tatum: Klay with better defense but worse efficiency. They aren't even the same type of players + vastly different roles + different positions. Klay is a better shooter than Tatum. Tatum has better footwork and handles than Klay...I guess.

Tatum had a great great rookie season and in keep mind, he's younger than most rookies in the league. He just turned 20 years ago. I don't think I need numbers to back that up.

Terry Rozier: Shooting 38% from 3PT with volume is just ok? Do you think if the Celtics replaced Rozier with Wright or FVV that they could duplicate what Rozier did in the playoffs?

Marcus Smart: I agree. I do think he provides value as a role player and someone you want on the court late in the game to defend a lead.

Jamal Murray: A 2nd year player who made huge strides from his rookie season has reached his ceiling at 21 years old. Meanwhile, Pascal Siakam, who still hasn't learned to shoot and is 3 years older, has all the potential in the world. Guaranteed, if Murray is a Raptor and Siakam or OG or Poeltl or FVV or Wright was a Nugget, you'd be laughing your butt off if I even considered any of those players to be better than Murray and you'd be right.

Gary Harris: An elite shooter, something that all 30 teams would covet around the league. Just outstanding efficiency. Never will be a good defender? My jaw just dropped. He's one of the league's best on ball defenders. He didn't receive a few all defensive votes out of fluke this season. I can only conclude, you've never actually watched Gary Harris play before

Malcolm Brogdon: He was injured the 2nd half of the season and shouldn't have come back for the playoffs. Shouldn't diminish his improvements in offensive efficiency. His defense is nothing spectacular but solid.

Jabari Parker: How did you manage to compare Wiggins to Parker. One player made strides (unfortunately setback by injuries) and other one declined significantly. Parker improved his 3 pt shooting, his overall offensive efficiency despite an increase in volume, his defensive awareness. The only question with Parker is health.

 

[Eyedea]

Thanks for replying.

First off just to address some general points and then later I'll get into individual players

you can't use a singular advanced stat like VORP (slightly different but BPM) and rank players off of that

Are you telling me that Damian Lillard (5.9) is better than Giannis (5.4), Anthony Davis (4.9), Kevin Durant (4.5), Steph Curry (4.4)

Is Otto Porter the 20th best player in the league this season? Is Andre Drummond (5.0) better than Davis, Durant, Curry?

VORP is useful but flawed without context

Of course context is needed, and in those cases it's largely due to missed time and marginal differences in rate stats. It isn't necessarily saying that Lillard is better than those mentioned, but he had an underrated year and the Blazers were incredibly more productive when he was on the floor versus him off (like a Giannis). I'm pretty sure we're all capable of using VORP for what it is, a counting stat for overall seasonal value like WAR. I wasn't only looking into that, but also their offensive/defensive ratings, their shooting percentages, assist/to rates, on/off stats, their defensive dash, and what I've personally seen from games.

Drummond is an interesting guy because he's arguably a top 2 rim presence with Gobert. The problem is the guys around him are largely ineffective on both ends of the floor, eliminating any value he brings to the table. So no, he's not better than those guys, but he still is really good and emulates Ben Wallace's play without having any shooters.

And your comments surrounding Nurse are fine, I don't mind it because like you said it's hypothetical at this point in time. However, referencing the rift between Casey and Nurse identifies that he (Casey) lacked the inquisitiveness to try new things and was adamant on maintaining his own lethargic approach. The tones of the press conference spoke a lot louder than I initially expected, and you could see the spilled tea all over the table.

 

[Eyedea]

Regarding Harris' defense, 1.8 steals is a perfect indication for people who have not actually watched him to vote for him as a stellar defensive player.

If Siakam was on Denver, I probably wouldn't bother reading into his story enough to see why he has potential, so yeah you're probably right. But I'm far from one of those guys that thinks every Canadian player in the NBA is a god.

And Jabari Parker sucks dude.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

No, what you've learned is that Ana hasn't been more successful in the playoffs in recent years, despite what you've claimed.

But what sample size would you like to use, if 3 years is not to your liking? Should we go back to before Masai became a GM? Should we focus just on the recent year where yes, the Raptors were swept in the 2nd round...and ANA was swept in the first?

Please, by all means, pick a sample size.

So you decided to choose 3 years because 3 years ago, the roster was different.
I told you that 2 years ago, it was just as different but you didn't even bother responding

As for picking a sample size, why don't you look at the original quote and figure that out​

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Regarding Harris' defense, 1.8 steals is a perfect indication for people who have not actually watched him to vote for him as a stellar defensive player.

If Siakam was on Denver, I probably wouldn't bother reading into his story enough to see why he has potential, so yeah you're probably right. But I'm far from one of those guys that thinks every Canadian player in the NBA is a god.

And Jabari Parker sucks dude.

Your simply assuming Garry Harris got votes because of his steals. There's no indicator of this. Did John Wall 2.3 steals get votes? Did James Harden 2.2 steals get votes? Did Steph Curry's 1.7 steals get votes? How about Thaddeus Young? How about Carmelo Anthony? How about Rudy Gay?

Maybe if you're a casual CDN B-ball fan, you'll think every Canadian player is great.

Jabari Parker sucks based on what? Discounting this season because he's coming off of an ACL injury. He made significant strides last season compared to his first 2. And oh yeah, he just turned 23.

 

[Eyedea]

Your simply assuming Garry Harris got votes because of his steals. There's no indicator of this. Did John Wall 2.3 steals get votes? Did James Harden 2.2 steals get votes? Did Steph Curry's 1.7 steals get votes? How about Thaddeus Young? How about Carmelo Anthony? How about Rudy Gay?

Maybe if you're a casual CDN B-ball fan, you'll think every Canadian player is great.

Jabari Parker sucks based on what? Discounting this season because he's coming off of an ACL injury. He made significant strides last season compared to his first 2. And oh yeah, he just turned 23.

Maybe if I'm a casual CDN B-ball fan what? I don't understand what you're trying to get at. Am I suppose to praise Murray when I don't think he's a PG and has too small of a frame to be an SG?

And Jabari Parker sucks based off the fact that in his best season statistically he was still a -5.4 in on/off. He wasn't a great shooter (still had a lower effectiveness compared to a "brick-shooting" Siakam), his defence remained stagnantly below average to bad, and evidentially his BPM was approximately replacement level. Now coming off two major knee surgeries I'm suppose to think he's going to be what he was suppose to be?

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Maybe if I'm a casual CDN B-ball fan what? I don't understand what you're trying to get at. Am I suppose to praise Murray when I don't think he's a PG and has too small of a frame to be an SG?

And Jabari Parker sucks based off the fact that in his best season statistically he was still a -5.4 in on/off. He wasn't a great shooter (still had a lower effectiveness compared to a "brick-shooting" Siakam), his defence remained stagnantly below average to bad, and evidentially his BPM was approximately replacement level. Now coming off two major knee surgeries I'm suppose to think he's going to be what he was suppose to be?

You said, But I'm far from one of those guys that thinks every Canadian player in the NBA is a god. My response is, I don't think anyone believes that unless you're a Casual CDN basketball fan, you may think that way.

You pretty much just described 28 year old DeMar DeRozan (other than the injuries), the player that we can't criticize around here. Parker had a TS% of .563, which is a higher offensive efficiency than DeRozan has had in his entire career. Parker's on/off is not good I do concur.

 

[Eyedea]

Who said we can't criticize DeRozan? He's an inefficient volume scorer that regressed to his previous normalcy whenever the team got in a hole. I do think his off court issues were having an impact on his performance though. How could they not with the levels of stress that he had to deal with?

 

[The Nemesis]

Reports are indicating that Nurse has hired ex-Thunder assistant Adrian Griffin as his lead assistant.

Griffin played 9 years for 5 teams in the NBA between 1999 and 2008. I've heard his name mentioned a lot over the last couple years as a popular head coaching candidate. Seems like a good hire.

 

[stickty111]

Who said we can't criticize DeRozan? He's an inefficient volume scorer that regressed to his previous normalcy whenever the team got in a hole. I do think his off court issues were having an impact on his performance though. How could they not with the levels of stress that he had to deal with?

Its fuuny he is complaining people dont criticize Derozan when he wanted to resign him.

 

[stickty111]

People laughed when I said Raptors are better then the Celtics,
Celtics are so fantastic that they finished 2nd. What I didnt forsee is an Average team that an elite coach like Stevens would carry.

The Raptors have a stronger and more talented roster then the Celtics.​

 

[The Man with a Plan]

How often does the NBA Coach of the year get fired before he receives his award? I don't pay a lot of attention to basketball anymore but I can't think of another off the top of my head.

Yes Casey just won COTY...

 

[Eyedea]

How often does the NBA Coach of the year get fired before he receives his award? I don't pay a lot of attention to basketball anymore but I can't think of another off the top of my head.

Yes Casey just won COTY...

George Karl.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

George Karl.

So once....seems like someone was used as a scapegoat for the players who didn't step it up come playoff time.

 

[Eyedea]

So once....seems like someone was used as a scapegoat for the players who didn't step it up come playoff time.

Anytime you're in exclusive company with George Karl, it's a bad thing.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Gotta step up during plagoff time.

 

[The Nemesis]

So once....seems like someone was used as a scapegoat for the players who didn't step it up come playoff time.

Actually 3 times. Dolph Schayes got canned after winning coach of the year in the 50s. And there was another in between him and Karl who left after getting coty and who's name escapes me. Casey makes 4.

 

[Jozay]

casey is an idiot tho