Rant of the day...

[kremlin]

Greed = Good.....uh, not!

The NHLPA has been saying that it's looking for some middle ground, but that's not what they're looking for at all. They don't want a win-win situation. If the NHL doesn't give in to all their wishes, there will simply be no deal. To reject an offer, which most of the players have yet to see or read about, is just plain rude and stupid. I think a lot of players would be willing to play under the NHL's proposal, which was very substantial in the eyes of an European bloke - that's me folks. If Goodenow and Bettman can't change the dynamic tomorrow and hammer out a deal, I feel the PA will regret not accepting this offer in the not too distant future. In negotations, greed is good up to a certain point. However, if you get to greedy, it might come to haunt you.

 

[Chileiceman]

. To reject an offer, which most of the players have yet to see or read about, is just plain rude and stupid. I think a lot of players would be willing to play under the NHL's proposal, which was very substantial in the eyes of an European bloke - that's me folks.

Amen

 

[snakepliskin]

Union Membership= Sheep

my issue with the players is what are they waiting on? in my eyes they have pizzed away 1 yr of their earning potentiial to save the reputation of 1 man who is not one of them. this is an example of sheep being led to a slaughter! to the tempo of 1.8 mill avg per man these sheep have risked their income potential to the whims of their so called " union" leader bob goodenow. first how can each player (which in all reality is an independent contractor) gamble 1.8 million and let a "lawyer" place the bet for him. suppose the league does not rebound from this and in the next 3-4 yrs loses 8-10 franchises "which is a real possibility" that is up to 250 jobs CUT! but this is beside the point i am trying to make and that is incompetent leadership from the union--2 examples from today alone-1 they rejected the proposal out of hand probably without the team reps even seeing it and definitey w/o the membership seeing it as it would have been impossible to have notified them in the amount of time it took them to reject it. and 2nd and i have not seen much said about this but the nhl offered to increase the minimum salary 62% to 300k! let me promise you this -any other union in the world that was truly looking out for its membership would have signed this deal before the ink was dry! however-the quick rejection is just more proof that goodenow saskin linden and cohorts main and only priority is to the players making 4 mill and up and goodenows #1 priority is bob goodenow. my real rage is that unions in professional sports are rediculous anyway when in all phases of their job each player is a individual contractor and his only alliance should be with his teammates. the players are being taken for a ride and a egomaniac is driving the bus. if this is not settled soon the union will leave the league 3 options-1 dissolve-2-operate as usual and continue to lose money hand over fist (not an option any longer) and #3 contract to the 8 or 9 teams that can still operate within the unions guidelines and still show a profit and this is the only viable option unless the union agrees to concessions that enable more franchises to become solvent. also they have pretty much ignored the leagues profit sharing plan which i should understand because if things go down goodenows way the players will have all the profits and there would not be any to split anyway-way to go bob -YOU JERK!

 

[buce]

What do you expect. The majority of players are high school dropouts who have been coddled for more than a few years. They have simply lost touch with reality. I'm a huge Steve Yzerman fan, but I was so disappointed to hear him say that the players have a responsibility to the next generation of players and that is why they can't accept a cap. What a load of excrement. This is pride screwing with them. This is their leadership drawing a line in the sand and ensuring their members publically state that they will not cross it. Now that the owners have not backed down, the union is clamouring for excuses. Hey that next generation of players are praying for a system that they can average a 1.3 million salary. Ask any junior player who's career is now limbo is they would like to have a CBA signed and sealed right away. These players are nothing but misinformed, delusional, hypocrites. As much as I want hockey, I hope they cancel this season and the owners offer less next fall. Tell Bill Guerin to say good buy to the rest of that 9 million dollars this year. He'll never get it back and will never earn anything close to it ever again. If the union accepted a cap last summer, they could have kept their 24% roll back. If the union actually negotiated, they could have discussed having a cap phased in slowly. Instead they stubbornly refused to talk about a cap and now they will have to deal with the 24% and a cap. Good job Goodenow!

 

[ginner classic]

A truly pathetic bunch!

Who cares about fans, who cares about players, who cares about billionaires losing a few bucks? The only people hurt by this lockout are charities and employees of NHL teams and stadiums (and other associated industries) that have been hammered by the season not taking place. I for one, am totally sick of hearing fans whine about how they are hard done by. You have saved money, spent more time with your families, and discovered other interesting pursuits in life. In short....get a grip.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Who cares about fans, who cares about players, who cares about billionaires losing a few bucks? The only people hurt by this lockout are charities and employees of NHL teams and stadiums (and other associated industries) that have been hammered by the season not taking place. I for one, am totally sick of hearing fans whine about how they are hard done by. You have saved money, spent more time with your families, and discovered other interesting pursuits in life. In short....get a grip.

When I say fans I'm including the bar owners, stadium janitors, and sick children in charities. The fans.

 

[mabus]

Rant by Frustred Fan

After listening to the players rant and rave for 5 months or so, and a few clueless fans who simply do not get it and are actually swayed by the players innane cries of being "insulted" every time the NHL actually RAISES it's offer, i need to get some stuff off my chest, so if you don't want to hear a rant, please just skip this post, otherwise, read on. Just be forewarned, this post is from a frustrated PRO OWNER fan. I certainly never thought i'd be pro owner till this garbage happened but here we are, anyway, here are a few points i've noticed throughout this strikeeeeeerrrrrr lockout.

The players could negotiate the level of the cap, yet they refuse to. They will not discuss even a 100 million dollar cap, no cap will do. Is that really a reasonable position to take? Are they REALLY trying to find a middle ground here? Wouldn't someone who was willing to honestly negotiate say, i hate the salary cap idea, but if it's high enough we could live with it? The Players keep saying the Owners should police themselves, control their own spending. Indeed i've even heard several fans, and a lot more media puppets spew this one ignorantly. What they won't tell you, is that the owners CANNOT do this. If they ever tried to do it, the nhlpa would haul them into court for COLLUSSION. Thats why a salary cap HAS to be in the CBA. The owners cannot, on their own, arbitrarily impose a cap without putting it in the CBA, the players know this of course making their position rather dishonest.

The players currently are watching the Owners take in zero money from games, while the players themselves continue to make money in other leagues. If the owners bring in scabs next season, the players will absolutely go before the camera's and play the "insulted" card yet again, completely ignoring the jobs they've taken from hard working people who really NEED those jobs. How is it that a guy like Jagr, can play for 5 mill or whatever he's making in Europe, and a guy who needed that 10,000 a month he was making has to get a second job because Jagr came to play. Isn't Jagr the scab there? Is the nhlpa's version of union brotherhood stealing another guys job? How will they react when scabs come into the nhl, willing to do Jagrs 10 million dollar job for 1 million? I bet you know exactly how they will react, insulted, of course. A few of the players are making a bunch of money, like Jagr in europe, but most are making a ton LESS than that, indeed, chelios signed just the other day for a few measly thousand dollars, yet they refuse to play, indeed, are INSULTED to play for MILLIONS? That makes no sense at all and it should tell you something about the reasonableness, or lack of one, with their position.

Finally,
The offer from the NHL, would see the maximum salary be 6 million, far higher than all but a handfull of players make now, and would see the minimum salary RAISED by a good 50% or so. It would also RAISE the minimum payroll that several teams pay out. And yet the players refuse to sign, refuse, not only to sign, but even to NEGOTIATE a cap. We are losing the season, because the players are insulted to only get 6 million a year? Does this offer REALLY look unfair to anybody? I just want to say to mr betteman and each of the owners, if the players keep refusing to play for you for MILLIONS, i think some of us on this very board would be thrilled to PAY YOU to let US play for you. Heck we'll even bring our own equipment.

End of rant

 

[Hemooli]

Rants like this should go into "Rant of the Day", a sticky in this forum.

 

[kerrly]

Prepare yourself for some PA rhetoric. The onwers started this mess, why should the players fix it, etc. etc. Commence PA rhetoric now!

 

[Trottier]

Prepare yourself for some PA rhetoric. The onwers started this mess, why should the players fix it, etc. etc. Commence PA rhetoric now!

Nah, we'll leave your type to argue with yourselves...and the wall.

 

[mr gib]

Nah, we'll leave your type to argue with yourselves...and the wall.

aye barney!

 

[bhawk24bob]

Prepare yourself for some PA rhetoric. The onwers started this mess, why should the players fix it, etc. etc. Commence PA rhetoric now!

youre so full of it. how about we let the players hire a private auditor to go into the owners' books and we'll all find out who really lost money. i think a lot of people on here would be surprised. that's alright though, we'll just continue to ignore reality.

 

[snakepliskin]

youre so full of it. how about we let the players hire a private auditor to go into the owners' books and we'll all find out who really lost money. i think a lot of people on here would be surprised. that's alright though, we'll just continue to ignore reality.

so you believe the owners have shut down a business that is making money? yeah right

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

youre so full of it. how about we let the players hire a private auditor to go into the owners' books and we'll all find out who really lost money. i think a lot of people on here would be surprised. that's alright though, we'll just continue to ignore reality.

Only Toronto, Philadelphia, Detroit, Vancouver, Colorado, and Minnesota make money...

 

[CarGirl]

Please note that Columbus also makes money--not a lot of money, mind you, but we are operating in the black. An anomaly, considering we are an expansion team with a poor record and all, but there it is, and it is disturbing when folks who don't realize that lump us in with teams with poor financials as "ripe for contraction".

Our GM is more concerned with being able to keep/afford the hot young players we have for the future (like Nash, Zherdev, Leclaire) by not being over/outbid by other clubs.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Only Toronto, Philadelphia, Detroit, Vancouver, Colorado, and Minnesota make money...

According to the NHL Philadelphia, and Detroit lost money last year ... add Edmonton and Calgary to the list of teams that made a profit last year.

 

[Oilers10]

STILL NOT 1 substantial argument from the NHLPA!

For all the pro union cronies.......

The people that are pro union on this board I suspect are PA members. I can't understand how any level headed fan can justify the NHLPA rejecting offers by the NHL.

75% of this season has been cancelled and I do not see one LEGITIMATE reason why they cannot accept the deal proposed. Every time I see an NHLPA member, Saskin, or Goodenow speak, they say "we are not prepared to accept a cap" or "a cap is a non-starter for negotiations with us." NOBODY has EVER explained WHY they can't accept a cap!

Yeah they say "oh we value a free market" and blah blah blah. But what is their reasoning behind valuing a free market? For the good of the game? No. To keep salaries at the existing level and perhaps beyond? Of course it is. However, the players will not come outright and say it because they will seem greedy.

If the NHL were making wads of dough like the NBA and NFL I would be on the players side. Look at the empty seats in the stadiums. Look at that pathetic TV contract that puts us on par with Arena League football in the US. How can the PA refuse a deal that offers them a 50% stake in profits at a negotiated threshold?
They do so because the players know the leaugue is financially in trouble and they want to be guaranteed their money.

Answer me all of these questions Pro Union supporters. I may change my mind. However it is very unlikely.

Why doesn't the union hire its own auditor to go over the NHL's books? The league has stated it is willing to open them.

What is so bad about making 1.3 million as opposed to 1.8 million US?

What exactly is your stance about why a Salary cap is bad?

The whole lockout in general makes me sick. I do however see the Owner's point. I do not see one for the PA. The players have to realize they have it better than at any time in the existence of the NHL and they should be happy. Jean Beliveau had to sell his memorabilia just to make a few extra bucks. An above average player now makes more than WAYNE FRIGGIN GRETZKY in his PRIME!.....WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?

 

[Coffey77]

After listening to the players rant and rave for 5 months or so, and a few clueless fans who simply do not get it and are actually swayed by the players innane cries of being "insulted" every time the NHL actually RAISES it's offer, i need to get some stuff off my chest, so if you don't want to hear a rant, please just skip this post, otherwise, read on. Just be forewarned, this post is from a frustrated PRO OWNER fan. I certainly never thought i'd be pro owner till this garbage happened but here we are, anyway, here are a few points i've noticed throughout this strikeeeeeerrrrrr lockout.

The players could negotiate the level of the cap, yet they refuse to. They will not discuss even a 100 million dollar cap, no cap will do. Is that really a reasonable position to take? Are they REALLY trying to find a middle ground here? Wouldn't someone who was willing to honestly negotiate say, i hate the salary cap idea, but if it's high enough we could live with it? The Players keep saying the Owners should police themselves, control their own spending. Indeed i've even heard several fans, and a lot more media puppets spew this one ignorantly. What they won't tell you, is that the owners CANNOT do this. If they ever tried to do it, the nhlpa would haul them into court for COLLUSSION. Thats why a salary cap HAS to be in the CBA. The owners cannot, on their own, arbitrarily impose a cap without putting it in the CBA, the players know this of course making their position rather dishonest.

The players currently are watching the Owners take in zero money from games, while the players themselves continue to make money in other leagues. If the owners bring in scabs next season, the players will absolutely go before the camera's and play the "insulted" card yet again, completely ignoring the jobs they've taken from hard working people who really NEED those jobs. How is it that a guy like Jagr, can play for 5 mill or whatever he's making in Europe, and a guy who needed that 10,000 a month he was making has to get a second job because Jagr came to play. Isn't Jagr the scab there? Is the nhlpa's version of union brotherhood stealing another guys job? How will they react when scabs come into the nhl, willing to do Jagrs 10 million dollar job for 1 million? I bet you know exactly how they will react, insulted, of course. A few of the players are making a bunch of money, like Jagr in europe, but most are making a ton LESS than that, indeed, chelios signed just the other day for a few measly thousand dollars, yet they refuse to play, indeed, are INSULTED to play for MILLIONS? That makes no sense at all and it should tell you something about the reasonableness, or lack of one, with their position.

Finally,
The offer from the NHL, would see the maximum salary be 6 million, far higher than all but a handfull of players make now, and would see the minimum salary RAISED by a good 50% or so. It would also RAISE the minimum payroll that several teams pay out. And yet the players refuse to sign, refuse, not only to sign, but even to NEGOTIATE a cap. We are losing the season, because the players are insulted to only get 6 million a year? Does this offer REALLY look unfair to anybody? I just want to say to mr betteman and each of the owners, if the players keep refusing to play for you for MILLIONS, i think some of us on this very board would be thrilled to PAY YOU to let US play for you. Heck we'll even bring our own equipment.

End of rant

I'm upset that the NHLPA hasn't even considered a cap.

HOWEVER, there are a couple of things I want to note. First of, you make it sound like that minimum salary thing is really going to help. It's not. It won't raise the minimum payroll like you say it is. Take a look at the NHL rosters and find anyone who makes less than $300,000 (and therefore be bumped up). Not many, even garbage players get significantly more than the proposed minimum.

Here I'll even look at the NHLers and see who this helps (and note this is with the NHLPA 24% rollback).
Chris Taylor of Buffalo $266,000
Mark Mowers of Detroit $285,000
Richard Scott of the Rangers $285,000

Wow, 3 players. Yeah, quite the carrot the owners are dangling with that one.

Secondly, I don't think the last NHL proposal is even close to acceptable for the NHLPA. They want a system to have linkage AND a cap. If I were the NHLPA boss, I'd be willing to accept one or the other. Not both. Plus, if I accept a cap or linkage I had better get a better deal in regards to rookie bonuses, arbitration, Free agent age etc.

 

[ti-vite]

Tonight, I would like to see Bob McKenzie, while Glenn Healy is having a hissy fit, look over to him stright in the eyes interupt him and say:

'Glenn, I **** bigger than you, so shut up'.

Season, no season, I would be happy.

 

[i am dave]

I don't know if this has been discussed, but if the season gets cancelled, I think there should be a one-day-reprieve from the profanity filter.

 

[mabus]

Tonight, I would like to see Bob McKenzie, while Glenn Healy is having a hissy fit, look over to him stright in the eyes interupt him and say:

'Glenn, I **** bigger than you, so shut up'.

Season, no season, I would be happy.

Seriously, you're right
what the hell is wrong with Glenn Healy, the guy makes me go nuts every time he opens his mouth lately, is he being paid by the nhlpa to say the dumbest most anti owner thing possible?

 

[mikeliut1]

Nhlpa

I say the PA should hear what we have to say, I've been bombarding them for the past couple of weeks on this site:

http://www.nhlpa.com/feedback/index.asp

I suggest everyone do the same!!

 

[I Hate You All*]

Brent Klatt speaks out in support of his brother and other members of the NHLPA and takes Chelios-like crack at Gary Bettman:

"I will support Trent and the rest of the players at all costs. If things continue on the way they are going, I believe Chris Chelios' comments back in 1994 may come true. I know I wouldn't mind being part of the militia."

More here: www.nhlpa.com/latestnews/klatt.html

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

I'm getting so sick of the Anti player posts

I'm trying to figure out where the pro owner posters figure they are the "right ones"

We have had expansion to Ottawa, Tampa Bay, Anahiem, Florida, Atlanta, Columbus, Minnesota, San Jose and Nashville. I could make a solid case for 2 or 3 of these teams deserving of a spot in the NHL. Certainly not all 9 of them.

We have seen teams move from Winnipeg, Quebec and Hartford into either poor hockey markets or past failures

We have owners that run their teams like a toy and I would think maybe intentionally to show bigger "losses". Not only that but a hardline owner decided to offer a "spite contract" (Boston) to get back at another owner.

We have had at least 3 owners end up as crooks

We have had owners intentionally lie about their profits

We have had teams try to force back players who were not healthy enough to play (Philly - Lindros)

We have seen ticket prices grow into a range that most common folk cannot go to a game with their families

We have seen the owners accept rules that have slowed the game of hockey down and have made it boring for the most part.

Hell if we want to go further, we have owners that STILL run teams. That have stolen from the players pension in the past.

Half of these clowns could not run a local Tim Hortons with their business sense.

So continue bashing the players. Since they are the ones we pay to see, the ones we root for. The ones who names are on the back of our jerseys. The ones who average 800,000 a year (after you rid yourself of the top 20 players salaries) and has a typical career of 4 years. The ones who have valad contracts that are not being paid. The ones who have bled for the fans, have played injured for the fans and who has given everything they can for the fans.

Accept the fact that the Innocent NHL is dead. Yes we might still have a league called the NHL but it will be different, much different.

Gone will be the days in which the best in the world will play in this league.

Gone will be the days in which the trade deadline is more about the playoffs and less about accounting.

Gone will be the days in which I as a fan of close to 30 years really gives a damn anymore.

And it's really sad

Enjoy your owner operated NHL in which they custom make the CBA so they can have their scabs play.

Enjoy spending the same amount of money watching Bill Smith play instead of Marian Hossa because the owners will have to make some of their lost money back and there are saps out there that will pay 50 bucks to watch a beer league play

For me personally I stopped caring a long time ago. When end to end rushes were replaced by traps, When the left winger became a defenseman, when the only interesting thing to happen in 50% of games is a couple of knucklehead thugs fighting over....nothing, When trades were dictated about Salary instead of talent.

I will still with a bit of pride recall the amazing Habs team from the late 70's. The all heart Islanders of the early 80's. The world class Edmonton Oilers from the rest of the 80's. I'll fondly recall Bobby Orr, Larry Robinson, Billy Smith, Borje Salming, Denis Potvin, Bob Gainey and the rest of the players who were underpaid and ripped off by the owners.

Enjoy the new NHL people, the old one is RIP

 

[ScottyBowman]

Its easy. The problem with the NHL is that the league is being run by small market teams. Evidence of this is the refs letting all the crap go in the playoffs so teams like the Carolina Hurricanes, Calgary Flames, and Anaheim Ducks make the finals and that this lockout is being controlled by the likes of Karmanos and Wirtz.