Proposal: Rangers-Lightning

[eco's bones]

I'd leave Tampa to sort out their own cap issues. Lundkvist is going to be a very, very good NHL defenseman and he'll be ELC cheap for a while.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Not saying Tampa should or would accept; but from a 3rd party perspective this isn’t the ridiculously poor offer many are making it out to be.

Its poor for a team in win now mode to trade their number 2 long term d-man to acquire a backup goalie (for them) and a player in a draft you wont play for three years at best. Say the offer is Kravsov and Lundkvist. At least the offer is 2 legit elc players you can plug in right away. Probably a no from TBl but you at least pause and say in a worst case scenario you think about. You don't look at backup goalies for TBL and pause.

 

[HoseEmDown]

That’s not how deals work in the NHL. You don’t see overpayments for the sake of overpayments.

This isn’t EA NHL where you can just turn off the computer GM because you throw a hissy fit when your trade isn’t accepted. GM’s talk and eventually come to a middle point.

I’m not saying Tampa has to deal Sergachev. I know there’s cap issues, but I’d imagine other moves would be made before they deal him unless his asking price is too steep for their liking.

With that said, GM’s do not negotiate the way you seem to think they do.

We paid a 1st and Nolan Foote for Blake Coleman. New Jersey didn't want to move him since he was a good player for them and had an additional year left. We had to pony up whatever it took to get Jersey to trade him. We really wanted the player and thought he would be a key piece for us so we were ok with doing so.

So if you want Sergachev and we aren't willing to trade him we aren't going to do it for something you might think is fair value. It'll be something that we can't turn down.

 

[TGWL]

I don't see Tampa doing this, but I think futures is what Tampa wants back when moving out which ever player becomes a cap casualty.

 

[eco's bones]

Seems to me what Tampa needs to do is move on from 2 of Palat, Gourde, Johnson and Killorn without taking too much money back. I think they'd rather keep Gourde the most. That or get rid of Stamkos. They're also going to have to be a bit stingy re-signing Cernak.

From my point of view as a Rangers fan what I would give in futures for most of that is not a lot. I'm not really interested in larger contracts with term. We're going to have our own issues in that regard probably in two/three/four years.

 

[Flyer lurker]

I don't see Tampa doing this, but I think futures is what Tampa wants back when moving out which ever player becomes a cap casualty.

I think TBL would want ELC players and not future picks. Lunvkvist is a good example. ELC players you can put on roster get help in 21 and still make cup run. Trading serge for say pick 7 is just opposite of the plans of TBL.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I don't see Tampa doing this, but I think futures is what Tampa wants back when moving out which ever player becomes a cap casualty.

Futures is really all they can take.

 

[TGWL]

I think TBL would want ELC players and not future picks. Lunvkvist is a good example. ELC players you can put on roster get help in 21 and still make cup run. Trading serge for say pick 7 is just opposite of the plans of TBL.

Problem is the ELC players they would get probably wouldn't be worth it. Most teams would only offer middle 6 ELC players. I think they have a better shot landing a good prospect, rather than an ELC player who showing a lot of potential.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Problem is the ELC players they would get probably wouldn't be worth it. Most teams would only offer middle 6 ELC players. I think they have a better shot landing a good prospect, rather than an ELC player who showing a lot of potential.

Middle 6 ELC players won't get Serge, late 1's won't get Serge, backup g's won't get Serge.

No good elc's player no d 2 man in Serge.

In the words of Jack Nicholson no ticke no laundry.

 

[TGWL]

Middle 6 ELC players won't get Serge, late 1's won't get Serge, backup g's won't get Serge.

No good elc's player no d 2 man in Serge.

In the words of Jack Nicholson no ticke no laundry.

That's my point. Middle 6 won't get it done and teams won't be trading their high end ELC players. So while Tampa would prefer that, I think futures would be best for them since teams would only be willing to part with the lower end ELC players. (I'm not suggesting the opening offer is what they will take)

 

[Kupo]

I’ve seen more Rangers proposals these last 4 weeks than the last 4 years — and they pretty much all suck for one or both teams..

 

[Flyer lurker]

That's my point. Middle 6 won't get it done and teams won't be trading their high end ELC players. So while Tampa would prefer that, I think futures would be best for them since teams would only be willing to part with the lower end ELC players. (I'm not suggesting the opening offer is what they will take)

So why is a team that is the favorite to win the cup this year probably the favorite next year looking for futures? Its why when push comes to shove Killorn will go. One other very nice player will go. And Serge and Cirelli go nowhere.

 

[TGWL]

So why is a team that is the favorite to win the cup this year probably the favorite next year looking for futures? Its why when push comes to shove Killorn will go. One other very nice player will go. And Serge and Cirelli go nowhere.

I didn't say they were looking to move Serge...

 

[The S5]

Is Sergachev really that much better than Fox?

Sergachev isn't better than Fox.
Since when did Serg become that valuable? IMO, he came highly touted and has never really done anything to live up to that standard.
As far as the initial trade offer, Gorton says no. Lundqvist's upside is too high to move in a deal for anyone but a difference-maker. If things go as expected, the season will not start for a while. Hank may opt to either retire or go play in Sweden with his brother, at which point, Georgiev becomes the backup.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Fox + Carolina 1st.

Fox is more valuable than Sergachev alone

 

[5cotland]

Sergachev isn't better than Fox.
Since when did Serg become that valuable? IMO, he came highly touted and has never really done anything to live up to that standard.
As far as the initial trade offer, Gorton says no. Lundqvist's upside is too high to move in a deal for anyone but a difference-maker. If things go as expected, the season will not start for a while. Hank may opt to either retire or go play in Sweden with his brother, at which point, Georgiev becomes the backup.

I would say Fox is better but didnt want to be accused of having Homer glasses on.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Fox is more valuable than Sergachev alone

Sure he is.

 

[bernmeister]

To New York:
Mikhail Sergachev

To Tampa Bay:
Nils Lundkvist
Alexandar Georgiev
Carolina's 2020 first-round pick

No for all reasons others stated herein.

Def NOT moving Nils L

Expect Geo + to DET for its 2nd
also TB does not need a G

that leaves CAR 1st 22OA
that is subject to open bid, but don't see what TB wants to offer that we want, MINDFUL
we also have to juggle cap and exp dr

 

[Jared Dunn]

Sure he is.

I mean expansion draft exempt, 2 more years of ELC, slightly better offensively and less sheltered than Sergachev is in Tampa... at worst they're a wash

 

[FireGorton]

That’s not how deals work in the NHL. You don’t see overpayments for the sake of overpayments.

This isn’t EA NHL where you can just turn off the computer GM because you throw a hissy fit when your trade isn’t accepted. GM’s talk and eventually come to a middle point.

I’m not saying Tampa has to deal Sergachev. I know there’s cap issues, but I’d imagine other moves would be made before they deal him unless his asking price is too steep for their liking.

With that said, GM’s do not negotiate the way you seem to think they do.

Stevie Y does which explains how Gorton gave up Mac/Miller for Howden(borderline 4th liner), Hajek(AHL fodder),late first and a late 2nd.

 

[JC704]

Not saying Tampa should or would accept; but from a 3rd party perspective this isn’t the ridiculously poor offer many are making it out to be.

Only on HF would fans of each team think there is no basis for a trade between a team that is in a serious salary cap crunch with a 22-year old potential top-pairing LHD (a position the Rangers desperately need) who currently sits at third on their depth chart, and one of the top 20-year old prospects in the world, who many project to be a top four, if not top pairing, RHD, who can slot in nicely in their top four once he arrives in the NHL within another year or two, and will be on an ELC to boot. Fans think they will simply be able to move 2 of Killorn, Johnson, Palat and Gourde in a flat cap world where 2/3 of the league already sit at a place where they can't really take more cap on. Funny.

How does Victor Hedman/Ryan McDonagh-Nils Lundkvist sound? How does Mikhail Sergachev-Adam Fox/Jacob Trouba sound? I understand both fanbases are absolutely smitten with both players, as they should be, but to me there is certainly a basis for a trade. Don't want Georgiev because of the impending expansion draft? Fine. Totally fair. You can easily tweak the offer and change the third piece so it is better balance for Tampa.

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I would 100% do a trade around Nils + Carolina's pick + something else for Sergachev. You have to give to get. Oh, and btw, the Lightning do not have a first-round pick in this year's draft. This gives them extra draft capital, and they are simply one of the best run organizations in the NHL and do a good job finding talent anywhere. A draft pick, even if it sits at 22, is certainly an asset gained for them. Also from a Rangers salary cap perspective, essentially they're replacing the money (and likely a bit more) the front office paid Skjei to pay somebody who will likely be worth it. Figure out the second cap move later.

 

[One Winged Angel]

We paid a 1st and Nolan Foote for Blake Coleman. New Jersey didn't want to move him since he was a good player for them and had an additional year left. We had to pony up whatever it took to get Jersey to trade him. We really wanted the player and thought he would be a key piece for us so we were ok with doing so.

So if you want Sergachev and we aren't willing to trade him we aren't going to do it for something you might think is fair value. It'll be something that we can't turn down.

So by your logic, Hall for Larsson sets the bar because one GM was stupid enough to do it.

Lmfao. Ok.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Stevie Y does which explains how Gorton gave up Mac/Miller for Howden(borderline 4th liner), Hajek(AHL fodder),late first and a late 2nd.

That was Gorton’s one bad trade. Either that, or the scouts had a brain fart when it came to Howden and Hajek and Gorton was convinced by them that they would be better.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Sure he is.

He scored 40 points being on PP2, not getting big PP TOI and insane metrics that were better than both Hughes and Makar with 2 years left on his ELC.

You’d have to pay more for that than an RFA that needs a new deal as Fox has more team control left while putting up better numbers as a rookie at the same age as Sergachev.

 

[HoseEmDown]

He scored 40 points being on PP2, not getting big PP TOI and insane metrics that were better than both Hughes and Makar with 2 years left on his ELC.

You’d have to pay more for that than an RFA that needs a new deal as Fox has more team control left while putting up better numbers as a rookie at the same age as Sergachev.

Sergachev scored 40 points too as a rookie playing PP2 and playing 3 minutes less a game. He also did that as a 19 year old rookie not a 21/22 year old. What Fox has on Sergachev is the ELC and expansion exemption. Besides that they are very similar players with Sergachev being bigger and more physical. The value between the two is very similar but we don't want or need to trade Sergachev so we aren't going to make a deal for the sake of it, we would need an incentive to trade him.