Post-Game Talk: Rangers @ Islanders -- 4/9/21

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Raspewtin

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Honestly Kreider's biggest value is a PP specialist, followed by his ability to stretch the ice when the neutral zone is clogged.

These two things can just as easily be utilized/accomplished with him on the third line as on the first.

Once Lafreniere was chosen, it was an inevitability that Kreider was going to become a role player/leader on this team, but will be outplaced from the top six. Which is fine, he's just on the expensive side. Ditto for Trouba.
I think he has value as a PK'er too. I wish he'd get more time there.

He's been very ineffective at ES this year and last year. His hard nosed board play and cycle ability has seemingly disappeared. I really hate that we extended him. At this point if this is the player he is I'd just load him up with PP and PK time cause his ES time is ineffective.
 

EdJovanovski

#RempeForCalder
Apr 26, 2016
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If you spend even 5 mins in CapFriendly it is abundantly clear that we do not have cap issues, we can EASILY retain our core including Buchnevich, Zibanejad, etc and have cap space to spare. This is even assuming we sign Laf, Kakko, Fox, Shesty to BIG contracts. I had all of them signed for likely more than they'll make and was able to fit it in easily. Even several years down the road there was no issues, we will want to either force a trade or buyout Trouba/Kreider eventually just because it would be more beneficial to have the extra space and Kreider is also very unneeded on our roster
 
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Glen Sathers Cigar

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Feb 4, 2013
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He’s honestly looked good. I can’t speak for anyone else but I’m kind of surprised (so far). I think he led the team in Corsi +/- the last 2 games too (not that that really means anything but it’s still not unpleasant to the eyes nonetheless).

He played with Panarin and Strome last night. But really tonight was a fine example of a young player turning lemons into lemonade; Howden-Rooney-Kravtsov played a nice game.
There's definitely a noticeable difference between him and other young players that we've broken into the lineup in recent years. He seems like he's already a pro, he doesn't have the deer in the headlights and split second behind that Kakko, Lafreniere, Chytil and other youngsters have had at times. I guess that's the benefit of letting him cook for a couple years in the K and A instead of playing as a teenager.
 
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Leetch3

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If you spend even 5 mins in CapFriendly it is abundantly clear that we do not have cap issues, we can EASILY retain our core including Buchnevich, Zibanejad, etc and have cap space to spare. This is even assuming we sign Laf, Kakko, Fox, Shesty to BIG contracts. I had all of them signed for likely more than they'll make and was able to fit it in easily. Even several years down the road there was no issues, we will want to either force a trade or buyout Trouba/Kreider eventually just because it would be more beneficial to have the extra space and Kreider is also very unneeded on our roster

please post your projected roster with cap hits after giving all of those guys raises that fits under the 81.5 mil cap. I'd love to see it cause I want to make the numbers work...

to use whole numbers, with a 20ish man roster you need to average $4 mil cap hit per player....so each guy over $4 mil, you need someone under to balance it out. panarin is at $11.6 mil is almost 3 players worth so you need several players at league minimum/ELC just to offset him. How are you paying buchnevich, zibanejad, panarin, kreider, trouba, fox, laf, kakko, shesty, chytil all over $4 mil (some of them significantly over)? and then factor in raises for miller, kravtsov, lindgren etc. there aren't enough roster spots to offset with low paid guys to pull the average down...

the cap hits can work in the short term while those kids are still on ELC contracts....but the cap crunch in 2-3 years is simple math. we aren't going to be able to keep everyone....but thats not 100% a bad thing. the roster is not built for the playoffs right now and needs to be more balanced in terms of styles of play. so some of these guys will be swapped out regardless of the cap as we put together a more complete team IMO
 

aufheben

#Norris4Fox
Jan 31, 2013
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please post your projected roster with cap hits after giving all of those guys raises that fits under the 81.5 mil cap. I'd love to see it cause I want to make the numbers work...

to use whole numbers, with a 20ish man roster you need to average $4 mil cap hit per player....so each guy over $4 mil, you need someone under to balance it out. panarin is at $11.6 mil is almost 3 players worth so you need several players at league minimum/ELC just to offset him. How are you paying buchnevich, zibanejad, panarin, kreider, trouba, fox, laf, kakko, shesty, chytil all over $4 mil (some of them significantly over)? and then factor in raises for miller, kravtsov, lindgren etc. there aren't enough roster spots to offset with low paid guys to pull the average down...

the cap hits can work in the short term while those kids are still on ELC contracts....but the cap crunch in 2-3 years is simple math. we aren't going to be able to keep everyone....but thats not 100% a bad thing. the roster is not built for the playoffs right now and needs to be more balanced in terms of styles of play. so some of these guys will be swapped out regardless of the cap as we put together a more complete team IMO
This is $75M, however I was really lazy about it. Just for some sort of frame of reference.

upload_2021-4-10_13-17-57.png
 
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EdJovanovski

#RempeForCalder
Apr 26, 2016
28,744
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The Rempire State
please post your projected roster with cap hits after giving all of those guys raises that fits under the 81.5 mil cap. I'd love to see it cause I want to make the numbers work...

to use whole numbers, with a 20ish man roster you need to average $4 mil cap hit per player....so each guy over $4 mil, you need someone under to balance it out. panarin is at $11.6 mil is almost 3 players worth so you need several players at league minimum/ELC just to offset him. How are you paying buchnevich, zibanejad, panarin, kreider, trouba, fox, laf, kakko, shesty, chytil all over $4 mil (some of them significantly over)? and then factor in raises for miller, kravtsov, lindgren etc. there aren't enough roster spots to offset with low paid guys to pull the average down...

the cap hits can work in the short term while those kids are still on ELC contracts....but the cap crunch in 2-3 years is simple math. we aren't going to be able to keep everyone....but thats not 100% a bad thing. the roster is not built for the playoffs right now and needs to be more balanced in terms of styles of play. so some of these guys will be swapped out regardless of the cap as we put together a more complete team IMO
This is $75M, however I was really lazy about it. Just for some sort of frame of reference.

View attachment 420220
Hell, I was giving out money like Oprah; Kakko & Buch 6M each, Fox 8M, Shesty 7M, Kravtsov 5M and I was still right at the cap. Which I assume won’t remain flat for that long
Once Laf & Millers ELC come off the books, we just have to either force a trade or buyout of Trouba/Kreider and we will be fine.
 
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romba

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Like Kravtsov with Rooney and Howden, he knows he’s the best player on that line so he’s taking command. He’s trusting his skill to make the plays happen, rather then deferring. It’s a great mindset to have, especially once he moves back up in he lineup.
Wow It’s possible for a young guy to be successful on the 4th line!?! Howwww??? Laf and Kakko suck because they weren’t put on....wait they don’t suck anymore? But EA says they won’t develop unless all get top line minutes!
 

romba

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I really, REALLY like what I see in Kravstov so far. The kid can play. Size, hands, awareness and good hustle.

Later in the third below the goal line, he made a move and great short pass out to I think Rooney who just couldn't handle that silk, if it were anyone in our top 6 it would have been in the back of the net.
the 2 on 1 where Rooney shot off the quick tight pass from VK and Varly used his special Rangers ass magnet to draw the puck into his blocker?
 

romba

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Aug 2, 2005
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Laf is starting to turn a corner IMO... great? No. Trying shit? YUP
he tried shit early on and was a turnover dispenser. He took a break, played simple and his brain and conditioning are catching up and the things he’s trying are being successful. BLAME QUINN
 
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chosen

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Since Howden possesses zero offensive moves I would love to see a Goat-Rooney-Kravs 4th line for the remainder of the season. I think they could do some damage.

2 guys with near-zero offense and kravtsov is okay if you don't want Kravtsov to get any points.
 

Larrybiv

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May 14, 2013
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Kravtsov is much more skilled than Chytil. Chytil has speed and power but Kravtsov is on another level with respect to hands and vision. Really looking forward to next year at this point.
Why look forward, when you can try and enjoy the here and now?
(Me, playing devils advocate)........hell, why not fast forward 2 years from now.....when we're playing for the cup?

Not me, the fun is in the journey my brother! Will mean so much more when "we" lift the gosh darned thing!
 

SnowblindNYR

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yours truly -- a case can be made I am being improperly ostracized from the roster building thread b'c I spoke the truth about Nieves, a posture to which most disagreed but respected my right to this opinion --- was ridiculed by most here for saying WAY WAY WAY ahead of the curve, that Kravtsov had everything to possibly succeed at pivot. Then I further qualified that by specifying I was not saying day 1 in a vacuum VK could pivot any line with anyone well [tho that might be a possibility] -- I said he would work very well and create a dominant line with Kakko and Panarin as Ws. (Those 2 already confirmed they have chemistry.)

NO, NO, NO said the detractors.
Not possible.
Creative thinking outside the box, even if it was only an experiment, no we don't dare even think about going there, let alone actually try it.

They let VK start at W to get his feet wet, fine.
The above posts PROVE THAT I WAS RIGHT!!!!!

Krav has most of Kreider's speed and adequate++ strength while having much more vision, lateral skating, passing and scoring skill.

I am doubling down and saying again, if they listen to me and give that line a try, they won't be disappointed, it will work well, and against most lines, dominate.

We need to stop this foolishness about 'we ONLY trade our top vets Strome and Buch IF we get a top C prospect who is so can't miss he's almost in a lineup already.'
1. That is unrealistic, rarely happens, such assets are usually kept/not available.
2. If we get adequate profit of picks [which are universally accepted currency, btw] as surplus of value for our vets, we can then have GMJG apply new found skill to draft very well = huge profit, just requires a little bit of patience. [case in point is Barron, a 6th round pick]
We are still recovering from win now stupidity and desperation.
One, maybe two more good solid drafts THEN we will have such a surplus we can indulge consolidation splurges.

Avoid the clickbait Eichel move which adds 10m+ which = structural cap probs. Eichel $$ can't come here unless/until Trouba is dealt.
NOW, who thinks including Kravtsov in an Eich deal is such a good idea?

Listen to bern, play/develop the kids.
Listen to bern: no giving up too quick on Chytil, Kakko, LaF, Hajek

I know most of this board has good will in its heart for me.
Love is given, respect is earned.
Love is optional. I deserve the respect.

I extend likewise the good vibes received from most.
The vocal handful who want to argue EVERYTHING with me, who can't admit water is wet --- and you know who you are -- take your comeuppance in the face of this rebuke.
He who laughs last laughs best.




Not bad, but here is my current thinking:

LW - C - RW
Kakko - Krav - Panarin
Kreider - Zib - Blackwell
LaF - Chytil - Gauthier
PDG - Blackwell - Gettinger

give Barron 4 games cup o coffee that does not apply an elc yr
next yr, can see if Barron is ready for top line day 1 or if he needs to wade in. If yes, he takes 2RW, Blackwell then to 4th line.

Deal them all.
Give Wall 4 games cup o coffee, ride shesty w/relief from Kink
deal Geo.

Deal Buch, Strome, Howden Smith
give mins to the kids, get a jump on next season

We can go barely to 9 on Zib IF IF IF he takes only 4 yrs extension on top of the final yr on his deal. That is the hard line in the sand. Not 5 or more years. 4. And if we are willing to put that contract extension in writing immediately, I want him signing on immediately.
If that happens great.
If not, sell high as a rental.
No excessively long term deals into the mid 30s.

---------------



I proposed Blackwell + Rooney, 2 guys at or barely above min thru next season for 2 2nds, one of which was delayed. It was not well received by either this base or EDM's.

Maybe we keep Blackie and package Rooney w/DPG? Or Howden?

Dude, get the f*** over yourself. Legend in your own damn mind.
 
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Synergy27

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Apr 27, 2004
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Why look forward, when you can try and enjoy the here and now?
(Me, playing devils advocate)........hell, why not fast forward 2 years from now.....when we're playing for the cup?

Not me, the fun is in the journey my brother! Will mean so much more when "we" lift the gosh darned thing!
Yeah, don’t take that the wrong way. I am very much enjoying this season. This is the most invested I’ve been in this team in a long time. I just think that they are perennial playoff contenders starting next year and I’m looking forward to them being an upper tier team again.
 

NYR94

Registered User
Mar 31, 2005
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His 2019-20 season was low key one of the best seasons post-lockout. 5v5 1.44 RelTM G+/- per 60. The second-highest on our team last year was Fox with like 0.75 RelTM G+/- per 60. Let me repeat that: Panarin’s relative goal differential was DOUBLE our next-best player.

Look at this shit below, no one else is even remotely close to him. They’re all descending by increments of, like, 0.2, and Panarin has f***ing 4.5 over the next guy. That’s the same size gap between like #2 and #22.

View attachment 420047
Looking at that chart they're all either stars or at least very good offensive players but how is Steve Downie so high?
 

2014nyr

Registered User
Jun 14, 2014
2,698
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Looking at that chart they're all either stars or at least very good offensive players but how is Steve Downie so high?

not that its not still an outlier, but what gets lost in downie being an absolute psychopath is he actually was a really smart hockey player. its kinda like avery where a lot of people only thought of him as a sideshow and missed the fact he was actually a really smart player. he also shot himself in the foot alot, esp off ice, which is all most people choose to remember him by. downie was a powder keg on the ice ...where avery wasn't so much a hothead as a sht stirrer downie was full blown fit for a straight jacket. had he ever been able to get himself under control he could have been an extremely valuable player....his one real playoff run had 14 pts in 17 games. no idea why he could never get his act together, but no doubt he could play
 
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Hi ImHFNYR

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Jan 10, 2013
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Wherever I'm standing atm
yours truly -- a case can be made I am being improperly ostracized from the roster building thread b'c I spoke the truth about Nieves, a posture to which most disagreed but respected my right to this opinion --- was ridiculed by most here for saying WAY WAY WAY ahead of the curve, that Kravtsov had everything to possibly succeed at pivot. Then I further qualified that by specifying I was not saying day 1 in a vacuum VK could pivot any line with anyone well [tho that might be a possibility] -- I said he would work very well and create a dominant line with Kakko and Panarin as Ws. (Those 2 already confirmed they have chemistry.)

NO, NO, NO said the detractors.
Not possible.
Creative thinking outside the box, even if it was only an experiment, no we don't dare even think about going there, let alone actually try it.

They let VK start at W to get his feet wet, fine.
The above posts PROVE THAT I WAS RIGHT!!!!!

Krav has most of Kreider's speed and adequate++ strength while having much more vision, lateral skating, passing and scoring skill.

I am doubling down and saying again, if they listen to me and give that line a try, they won't be disappointed, it will work well, and against most lines, dominate.

We need to stop this foolishness about 'we ONLY trade our top vets Strome and Buch IF we get a top C prospect who is so can't miss he's almost in a lineup already.'
1. That is unrealistic, rarely happens, such assets are usually kept/not available.
2. If we get adequate profit of picks [which are universally accepted currency, btw] as surplus of value for our vets, we can then have GMJG apply new found skill to draft very well = huge profit, just requires a little bit of patience. [case in point is Barron, a 6th round pick]
We are still recovering from win now stupidity and desperation.
One, maybe two more good solid drafts THEN we will have such a surplus we can indulge consolidation splurges.

Avoid the clickbait Eichel move which adds 10m+ which = structural cap probs. Eichel $$ can't come here unless/until Trouba is dealt.
NOW, who thinks including Kravtsov in an Eich deal is such a good idea?

Listen to bern, play/develop the kids.
Listen to bern: no giving up too quick on Chytil, Kakko, LaF, Hajek

I know most of this board has good will in its heart for me.
Love is given, respect is earned.
Love is optional. I deserve the respect.

I extend likewise the good vibes received from most.
The vocal handful who want to argue EVERYTHING with me, who can't admit water is wet --- and you know who you are -- take your comeuppance in the face of this rebuke.
He who laughs last laughs best.




Not bad, but here is my current thinking:

LW - C - RW
Kakko - Krav - Panarin
Kreider - Zib - Blackwell
LaF - Chytil - Gauthier
PDG - Blackwell - Gettinger

give Barron 4 games cup o coffee that does not apply an elc yr
next yr, can see if Barron is ready for top line day 1 or if he needs to wade in. If yes, he takes 2RW, Blackwell then to 4th line.

Deal them all.
Give Wall 4 games cup o coffee, ride shesty w/relief from Kink
deal Geo.

Deal Buch, Strome, Howden Smith
give mins to the kids, get a jump on next season

We can go barely to 9 on Zib IF IF IF he takes only 4 yrs extension on top of the final yr on his deal. That is the hard line in the sand. Not 5 or more years. 4. And if we are willing to put that contract extension in writing immediately, I want him signing on immediately.
If that happens great.
If not, sell high as a rental.
No excessively long term deals into the mid 30s.

---------------



I proposed Blackwell + Rooney, 2 guys at or barely above min thru next season for 2 2nds, one of which was delayed. It was not well received by either this base or EDM's.

Maybe we keep Blackie and package Rooney w/DPG? Or Howden?

Lol u actually convinced yourself you're one of the first and only ones to think kravtsov could try C .

And you think you knew "the truth" about nieves.

LOL

Clamp down the ego hot damn
 
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romba

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
6,691
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I really wonder if it's that they think his looks make him appealing to a certain potential audience, and they're trying to market a product.

Nothing else makes sense, except maybe they can't admit they made a bad trade a few years ago. Or maybe Howden is like a teacher's pet in practice, and they keep him as an example?

I mean, sometimes they've overhyped goonish types (Hi Tanner!), I guess cuz they want to appeal to fans that love fighting, but Howden is not a big fighter or "sandpaper" guy.

Wish they'd just play the best players. Hearing Joe go on about "hard-working Howden" on a broadcast I have to pay for is really annoying.
Howden crush? Could do worse *shrug*
 

Shesterkybomb

Registered User
Dec 30, 2016
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16,600
I'd actually like to see a kravtsov howden Gauthier line if Kravtsov is gonna be on the 4th line. I didn't mind their line the other night to be honest but id like to see Gauthier instead of Rooney.
 
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