Post-Game Talk: Rangers 2, Pens 1 (OT) - And So Begins Our Summer of Discontent

[Ziggyjoe21]

Trading Martin, Orpik, or Niskanen at the trade deadline would have been incredibly stupid. Contending teams acquire Dmen at the deadline, not trade them away. Also, Martin was a big reason Letang had such a great season.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Trading Martin, Orpik, or Niskanen at the trade deadline would have been incredibly stupid. Contending teams acquire Dmen at the deadline, not trade them away. Also, Martin was a big reason Letang had such a great season.

How did that work out having those guys for the playoffs?

 

[DegenX]

Interview videos will be on the Pens website at some point today ...

 

[StaalForOne]

Pretty incredible that they lost Michalek, Orpik, Nisky and now probably Martin and got back:

Ruopp
Sundqvist

I really like both of these prospects, but it's pretty incredible that for four top four blueliners, that's the sum of their return. I'd say that it's more than reasonable to argue at least one of the latter three should have been moved for young assets.

worst part is that the sole return was a result of trading the worst of the 4.

The org had to think their chances of winning were low this year. If they truly thought of it as a transition year then it should have been Martin dealt at the deadline, not Despres.

 

[Darth Vitale]

How did that work out having those guys for the playoffs?

Exactly. At the risk of being redundant or cliche at this point.

This was the root of all Bylsma evil and by extension the root of Shero's only major mistakes. Believing too much in guys whose play started to fall off and gave no signs of coming back. Or simply didn't fit what was needed. Even to the point of bringing one back, let alone not getting something in return for guys who needed to go. Is what it is, but there's definitely a strong argument to be made that letting all of Orpik, Niskanen, Martin walk... without getting a single asset back... was a mistake and frankly a little gutless / a lack of willingness to put young guys in a position of responsibility. The same way Boston did with Krug a couple playoffs ago and other teams do.

Martin was sort of a borderline case. He had his share of good moments and a nice comeback after that one **** season. So you can quibble that maybe he's not the guy you can trade when the team struggles. But arguably we should have traded both he and Orpik, a year ago, with the amount of defensive talent we had lined up, ready to take the reigns. You don't just keep them no matter what simply because "there's no Orpik in our system" or whatever.

At a certain point when stuff is failing repeatedly, you cut the chord and your losses and start with something new in their place.

 

[plaidchuck]

Oh, bull ****. And if letang needs someone like martin baby sitting him, his contract can go away too.

And I don't want to hear the cap space argument. YOU CAN'T BUILD THROUGH FA IN A CAP LEAGUE! This is why the team sucks. They are not one fa from being a contender.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

worst part is that the sole return was a result of trading the worst of the 4.

The org had to think their chances of winning were low this year. If they truly thought of it as a transition year then it should have been Martin dealt at the deadline, not Despres.

Ya I didn't even factor in the Despres trade. Brutal.

Martin
Michalek
Orpik
Nisky
Despres

For

Sundqvist
Ruopp
Lovejoy

This was the root of all Bylsma evil and by extension the root of Shero's only major mistakes. Believing too much in guys whose play started to fall off and gave no signs of coming back. Or simply didn't fit what was needed. Even to the point of bringing one back, let alone not getting something in return for guys who needed to go. Is what it is, but there's definitely a strong argument to be made that letting all of Orpik, Niskanen, Martin walk... without getting a single asset back... was a mistake and frankly a little gutless / a lack of willingness to put young guys in a position of responsibility. The same way Boston did with Krug a couple playoffs ago and other teams do.

Martin was sort of a borderline case. He had his share of good moments and a nice comeback after that one **** season. So you can quibble that maybe he's not the guy you can trade when the team struggles. But arguably we should have traded both he and Orpik, a year ago, with the amount of defensive talent we had lined up, ready to take the reigns. You don't just keep them no matter what simply because "there's no Orpik in our system" or whatever.

At a certain point when stuff is failing repeatedly, you cut the chord and your losses and start with something new in their place.

It was painfully obvious how flawed that team was last season. There were zero reasons at least one of Orpik/Nisky shouldn't have been moved, and Despres given those minutes.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Ya I didn't even factor in the Despres trade. Brutal.

Martin
Michalek
Orpik
Nisky
Despres

For

Sundqvist
Ruopp
Lovejoy

****ing hell.

That's just... gloriously incompetent.

 

[StaalForOne]

Trading Martin, Orpik, or Niskanen at the trade deadline would have been incredibly stupid. Contending teams acquire Dmen at the deadline, not trade them away. Also, Martin was a big reason Letang had such a great season.

Orpik and Niskanen you have a point for, but its been well know since the beginning of the year that Martin's bags were all but packed. He was sour about DB being canned, and his age indicates that he likely will, and by all means should, look for his pay day this offseason. He has had a good tenure with the Pens, better than some give him credit for, but it should be time for him to move on. At the deadline it should have come down to this. You have 2 options in Despres or Martin to move. Not only would Martin have fetched a better return, but you have a better future in Despres.

 

[Darth Vitale]

McWilly: Yep. It is. No other word for it. Well, "shortsighted" fits it to a T but not strong enough.

 

[Black Label]

It scares me a lot that the team believes Lovejoy is a top 4 defender.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

McWilly: Yep. It is. No other word for it. Well, "shortsighted" fits it to a T but not strong enough.

I mean... that't the kind of narrow-minded dumbassery that a person (or group of people, in this case) has to actually work hard at to achieve.

I'm kind of proud of them!

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I mean... that't the kind of narrow-minded dumbassery that a person (or group of people, in this case) has to actually work hard at to achieve.

I'm kind of proud of them!

Well, it's frustrating because they ignored the fwd position in the draft to load up on blueliners, then held onto their vet blueliners instead of maxing out their value. Then the cherry on top is all of this lead to them wasting Despres also. They seriously couldn't have managed their assets much worse.

Dumo and Despres were both ready last season. Once Dumo was healthy after Christmas, one of Orpik/Nisky should have been dealt at the deadline. I'm 100% sure either would have brought back a first.

 

[Joejosh999]

Has the scouting staff changed at all since Shero? I hope they're focusing on more than US college hockey.

I believe there were zero changes to scouting but could be wrong.
Not really their strong suit anyway esp overseas.

When you look at the details on NHL.com, you can't even tell if there is anyone who has responsibility for ex) eastern EUROPE vs Western....Sweden/finland v Russia/Czchek and so on.

Shero was all N America. They really ignored EU east and west for awhile I believe.

 

[Iffyiffiffer]

Well that's a tweet that says nothing. No one could play with a major injury so of course there aren't any that weren't known.

 

[chuppa chupp]

I ran into a bunch of the Pens at the bar yesterday afternoon. Crosby, Martin, Sutter, Downie, Hornqvist, Maata, and Scuderi were all there. Pretty crazy seeing them boozing the afternoon after they lost, but hey, I don't blame them, haha. My girlfriend wanted a pic and Sutter took one of my girl, me, Crosby, and Martin.

 

[warcum71]

it seems for all our deficiencies the biggest problem we have is that crosby and malkin are not the players we thought they would be. to compare them to lemieux and jagr is laughable and really they are not on par with a ron francis. they dont make the players around them better like the true stars do. they dont score in the clutch when most needed. crosby has never scored an overtime goal in the playoffs in 100 games, and has only two in the third period. when we won the cup in game 7 he was invisible, hurt not present. malkins late game heroic stats in the playoffs are probably similar although i dont have those stats. seven ot losses in a row is a perfect example of our stars not getting it done. fluery is not immune from this either. to lose that many ot games you would hope your goalie would win a few for you but no he does not produce in the clutch either. he did play well against the rangers but his poor rebound control cost us a couple of games. pucks always seem to pinball around him and find a way into the net in the most pressurized situations. this is not a coincidence. it is who he is. he keeps us in games but cant win us a clutch game. i am not saying we should trade crosby or malkin, i love both of them, but the need to get better wingers is more evident than ever because they are not that good.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

Orpik and Niskanen you have a point for, but its been well know since the beginning of the year that Martin's bags were all but packed. He was sour about DB being canned, and his age indicates that he likely will, and by all means should, look for his pay day this offseason. He has had a good tenure with the Pens, better than some give him credit for, but it should be time for him to move on. At the deadline it should have come down to this. You have 2 options in Despres or Martin to move. Not only would Martin have fetched a better return, but you have a better future in Despres.

Martin is and was a legit #2 Dman, capable of playing close to 30 minutes and helped Letang elevate his game to Norris caliber. Despres is a 4/5 Dman, who the 2 coaching regimes and front office regimes did not think highly of. Despres can't compare to Martin any facet of the game.

 

[IcedCapp]

Martin is and was a legit #2 Dman, capable of playing close to 30 minutes and helped Letang elevate his game to Norris caliber. Despres is a 4/5 Dman, who the 2 coaching regimes and front office regimes did not think highly of. Despres can't compare to Martin any facet of the game.

oh yea?

edit:

actually, your entire post is full of fail.

1) Martin is not capable of playing 30 minutes, or close to 30 minutes a night. In fact, we saw the opposite: he's at a point in his career where he needs his minutes reduced for him to maintain his effectiveness.

2) You're attributing to Martin what Letang attained on his own, simply to help your fallacious argument. Letang looked darn good with just about everyone this season. That he also wound up looking good with Martin isn't a surprise.

What you should be noticing, however, is that Martin didn't look that great with anyone but Letang. I wonder why.


Good luck in your future endeavors.

 

[Joejosh999]

I think comparing Crosby/Malkin v Lemieux/Jagr is a fool's errand. The game is too different.
I play tennis also, and it's like comparing John McEnroe to Roger Federer.
The players now are too big and strong and well trained and the game even 20years ago was comically simplistic to what we have now.
The Russians heralded in the systemic play and dedication to fitness.
In the Canada v Russia summit in 1972 just read the quotes from Phil Esposito, they did not even know how to practice back then, compared to USSR.
Anyway, apples to oranges.
But you will still hear Phil Bourque on the radio talking about how SID or Geno need to "take over" like he remembers Mario could Back When.
It is simply impossible now.
More so when Crosby has 2-3 guys on him because nobody needs to worry about Scuderi or Kunitz.

Apples v Oranges.

 

[Gallatin]

Martin is and was a legit #2 Dman, capable of playing close to 30 minutes and helped Letang elevate his game to Norris caliber. Despres is a 4/5 Dman, who the 2 coaching regimes and front office regimes did not think highly of. Despres can't compare to Martin any facet of the game.

Depres can skate better, and hit better, and clear the front of the net better.

Ziggy are you from Mars?

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

How did that work out having those guys for the playoffs?

Going into the playoffs with Letang, Scuderi + 4 rookies won't win you many playoff games.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Martin is and was a legit #2 Dman, capable of playing close to 30 minutes and helped Letang elevate his game to Norris caliber. Despres is a 4/5 Dman, who the 2 coaching regimes and front office regimes did not think highly of. Despres can't compare to Martin any facet of the game.

Really? Despres is being used in the Ducks' top 4 and he is having a better playoffs than Martin did. Also, Despres is 23 and Martin is 34. Also, Despres' contract is much cheaper. Foolish comparison.

And giving credit to Martin for Letang's season.

 

[Joejosh999]

Martin is and was a legit #2 Dman, capable of playing close to 30 minutes and helped Letang elevate his game to Norris caliber. Despres is a 4/5 Dman, who the 2 coaching regimes and front office regimes did not think highly of. Despres can't compare to Martin any facet of the game.

OK I was going to reply but IC did it for me.

Except to say Martin was propped up by Letang...probably more than we realized.
In the way the media hoped to get us to believe Scuds propped up Simon.
Except it was actually true for Martin. And false for Despres.

Seriously ziggy , Despres is going to be so good he will make you cry.
And IC will make sure you know it.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

Depres can skate better, and hit better, and clear the front of the net better.

Ziggy are you from Mars?

And this justifies saying that Despres is comprable to Martin? There's more to hockey those 3 attributes. For example, being reliable in all the zones.


IIRC both Martin and Despres are FAs this season. I bet Martin will get at least 4x more per year, despite the fact he's 34 and past his prime.