Post-Game Talk: Ranger Danger, Pens get shut out 3-0

[Shady Machine]

That's fine and I agree, im only arguing that this particular game is any indication of anything.

Kuhnackl and Wilson and Sundqvist and Sheary shouldnt be in the lineup when everyone gets healthy. And while Bonino, Fehr and Bennett haven't world beaters this year they have plenty of NHL success to prove they can produce good 3rd line point production.

We do have to be concerned about replacing some of the kids with slower vets. Skating has been a big part of our improvement. Replacing Sundqvist with Fehr is an upgrade and Bones is better than Sheary, Wilson, etc but he's slower and hasn't produced much this year. I'd look to trade him personally, but not sure why type of interest is out there. We also don't know if he'll be healthy before deadline, so that may not be an option.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

We do have to be concerned about replacing some of the kids with slower vets. Skating has been a big part of our improvement. Replacing Sundqvist with Fehr is an upgrade and Bones is better than Sheary, Wilson, etc but he's slower and hasn't produced much this year. I'd look to trade him personally, but not sure why type of interest is out there. We also don't know if he'll be healthy before deadline, so that may not be an option.

Yeah that's been part of it but I will gladly have Bonino and Fehr who have proven they can be productive. IMO as long as they can upgrade LW they should be fine.

 

[Hossa die Waldfee]

We do have to be concerned about replacing some of the kids with slower vets. Skating has been a big part of our improvement. Replacing Sundqvist with Fehr is an upgrade and Bones is better than Sheary, Wilson, etc but he's slower and hasn't produced much this year. I'd look to trade him personally, but not sure why type of interest is out there. We also don't know if he'll be healthy before deadline, so that may not be an option.

Kuhnhackl out Bones in? Speed problem solved. Or just replace Porter who isn't the fastest skater either and sucks at playing hockey.

Bones is a good player. The only way I trade him is if we need him to upgrade on LW#1, because of his worth and our ability to replace him with Fehr (and Fehr with Sundqvist if he is injured )

 

[billybudd]

Porter's not slow. He's too nondescript to be slow.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

We do have to be concerned about replacing some of the kids with slower vets. Skating has been a big part of our improvement. Replacing Sundqvist with Fehr is an upgrade and Bones is better than Sheary, Wilson, etc but he's slower and hasn't produced much this year. I'd look to trade him personally, but not sure why type of interest is out there. We also don't know if he'll be healthy before deadline, so that may not be an option.

Also other than Rust none of them are blazers. Sheary is quick, Wilson is above average, Kunh and Sundqvist are ok for their size but average overall, Porter isnt fast.

Cullen will also drop down and add speed.

 

[vikingGoalie]

I disagree. Maybe he should have challenged Moore more, but that was a really good shot. Just because it's Moore does not mean it is a bad shot. Last year John Scott sniped one against the capitals. Bad players can make good plays too.
On the first goal the rebound is bad I'll give you that. But our inability to clear the puck in that situation is just as bad.
Fleury is not making the unbelievable saves he did at the beginning at the year. But this was not a bad game by him. And only blaming your goalie while not scoring a goal is tough...

I don't like his reaction. His eyes are not picking the puck up despite the fact that he had clear vision of the release and puck the whole way. Goalies tend to try and do chicken wing saves when they pick the puck up late, and his head is still focused on the release point, he doesn't even look to to his blocker side until it's past him.
I know for myself and the goalies I instruct that you gotta keep your head turned at and follow that puck the whole way. You can see as the puck tracks past the point where he can make a blocker save he tries to get the arm/shoulder on the puck but it's too late the puck is by. When you see a goalie still looking past the puck you know they just didn't pick it up.

This shot started at the top of the circle and was pretty telegraphed. It was a fantastic shot, in that it was placed precisely in the corner. So in that regard, ya great placement velocity was pretty decent but not blow it past an elite goalie from the top of the circle fast.

If fleury hadn't reacted so late to a shot he saw the whole way I'd feel better about it. Meaning it's not that Moore scored so much the way fleury reacted (or didnt') that bothers me.

Goalies all go through ups and downs to some extent. So hopefully this can be categorized as such. I also agree that it's tough to lay all blame on your goalie when you fail to score. It's just that Lundqvist made some much more difficult saves then our goalie did. When your goalie gets out played by a large margin it's hard to win games.

 

[Asuna]

I wonder if Fleury is bothered by that concussion still.

 

[cajal]

One thing that teams regularly do to the Rags is to get right in Lundqvist's "house". The guy absolutely can't stand it (even more than other goalies, really) when he gets jostled or subtly interfered with - at all. JMO.

I thought that Sullivan would demand more of that last night (knowing Lundqvist very well), especially in a game when we have so much firepower out of the lineup. The Pens made Lundqvist pretty comfortable in his crease. I'm sure coach will harp on that for the next Rags game.

On to the next one.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I wonder if Fleury is bothered by that concussion still.

I don't think he looked as sharp post concussion, but that may be paranoia and some hindsight. Anyway, post ASG he's looked out of it, he was still playing well post concussion even if he may not have been on fire like he was before. It's concerning.

Idk if he's injured (my go to for the Pens), if it's lingering effects from the concussion (he's got to speak up about it, if so, because you don't **** around with that), if he's sick or if it's psychological. Thank god for how confident everyone is in the medical staff...

 

[Shady Machine]

Also other than Rust none of them are blazers. Sheary is quick, Wilson is above average, Kunh and Sundqvist are ok for their size but average overall, Porter isnt fast.

Cullen will also drop down and add speed.

Quickness is an asset so Sheary counts. Wilson is above average, like you said, while Bones is slow. Kuhn and Sundqvist are non factors speed wise, so subbing them out and Fehr, Bones in is no problem.

But it's not just about speed, it's about young, fresh legs. All I'm saying is we shouldn't look at the injuries outside of Malkin and think "as soon as we get Bones, Fehr back we will be good". Sure they are better hockey players, but neither are lighting up on the scoreboard this year so I don't see them fixing our problems against the Rangers. We need a serious upgrade at LW to compete IMO.

 

[metalan2]

You guys are right.

Every goalie commits 100% on the shooter on 2v1s except MAF. They're taught to give up the back door because it's impossible to make a pass around a flailing Dman who is barely covering the lane. It's much easier to pick a corner than it is to make a 10 foot saucer pass for most NHLers. In fact I've never seen a goalie set up at the top of the crease on a 2v1 before last night. Every other goalie in the league is at least a foot out of the crease on 2v1s, just like Lundy was on the Pens 2v1.

Just look at how far out Lundy is on our 2v1 at the 3 min mark. He's almost at the FO dot!

Lundqvist plays deep in his net at all times.


That still doesn't change the fact that if Fleury was looking pass there IT IS STILL HIS FAULT.


That goal should have been stopped and there is nothing more to say. It was a bad, backbreaking goal from a fourth liner. Lundqvist saves it easily.

 

[metalan2]

You guys are taking a hockey cliche as a black and white fact, which is ****ing stupid. The world isn't black and white. No goalie is taught to 100% commit to the shooter and disregard the pass on a 2v1. They're taught to read the shooters and their Dman to determine who to challenge more.

Re-watch the highlights I posted. DP did nothing to stop the pass there. MAF is at to top of the crease. If he comes out any further Moore makes an easy saucer pass over a DP's stick for an empty net.

You've never played goalie then, or went to hockey schools, etc.


No goalie is taught to take the shooter? What are you talking about? Goalies are taught to take the shooter and trust the defenseman 100% of the time. It is TOUGH for goalies to do it, because you want to worry about the pass getting through, but that is what EVERY hockey school tells you to do. Every single one.


This is fundamental hockey.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Quickness is an asset so Sheary counts. Wilson is above average, like you said, while Bones is slow. Kuhn and Sundqvist are non factors speed wise, so subbing them out and Fehr, Bones in is no problem.

But it's not just about speed, it's about young, fresh legs. All I'm saying is we shouldn't look at the injuries outside of Malkin and think "as soon as we get Bones, Fehr back we will be good". Sure they are better hockey players, but neither are lighting up on the scoreboard this year so I don't see them fixing our problems against the Rangers. We need a serious upgrade at LW to compete IMO.

I agree about LW but i disagree about guys like Fehr and Bonino, i think guys like them can be the difference in a 7 game series just by chipping in one or two. The WBS guys are playing well for their expectations but are very little threat to score. Fehrs been a 20 goal guy, bonino has been a 50 point guy etc, now there not playing well so far this year but theres juice to squeeze there.

 

[vikingGoalie]

You do realize we did not score???? Amazing

we didnt score?

timely goals and timely saves both can be big momentum changers.
If our goalie plays as well as the opposing goalie we at the very least go to OT and get a point. The 2 that went in on fleury were just not good goals. The 2 on 1 you can argue it's not a terrible goal because it was a 2 on 1 and great shot placement, etc. However. Do you really think that shot would have gone in on Lundqvist? or even on 2015 Fleury?

Yes we did not score. That is not on fleury. But the fact that our goalie was completely out played by the other goalie is totally on fleury. As I said in an earlier post. I'm more concerned about how Fleury is reading the play and reacting right now then on whether he stopped it. He seems off, first two games I was kinda meh about it. But now it's 3 in a row. Hopefully it's just a wobble and we can just move on.

He plays like this 3 more in a row it becomes a major major concern.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

This board's infatuation with speed has gotten way out of control now. Seriously.

Speed is great, but give me guys who think the game well and have skills like shooting and dangling ability. THAT produces offense more often than speed.

You guys can have your speed, I'll take the Luc Robitaille's of the world.

 

[Asuna]

This board's infatuation with speed has gotten way out of control now. Seriously.

Speed is great, but give me guys who think the game well and have skills like shooting and dangling ability. THAT produces offense more often than speed.

You guys can have your speed, I'll take the Luc Robitaille's of the world.

Cause those guys are so easy to acquire.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Cause those guys are so easy to acquire.

Obviously he's just citing a certain type of player, but maybe a guy like Jussi Jokinen as a more grounded example? That type of player isn't a burner but can play the game and produce points, and they have reasonable contracts. Stempniak's name came up in another context as an even more affordable type of guy. We need a couple more of those and a couple less Kuhnackls, at least in terms of scoring.

Of course what we actually need is a young budget player filling a role or two like that but that's another conversation.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yup agreed. We can't go "look at all these chances we had" and ignore the chances the Rangers missed on. We played relatively well but you have to bury your chances to win. I'm concerned of it becoming a trend against the Rangers.

We do have to bury our chances, but I don't buy into the Rangers being a big obstacle. If we have all the core guys healthy and aren't totally decimated depth-wise, I'm confident in our chances.

This game we were missing Malkin and some pretty significant depth (esp. with Daley going down and running with 5 D). I know they were missing some big guns too, but we're not constructed to withstand the loss of a 9.5 mil player, let alone 4 additional regular roster players.

 

[Asuna]

Obviously he's just citing a certain type of player, but maybe a guy like Jussi Jokinen as a more grounded example? That type of player isn't a burner but can play the game and produce points, and they have reasonable contracts. Stempniak's name came up in another context as an even more affordable type of guy. We need a couple more of those and a couple less Kuhnackls, at least in terms of scoring.

Of course what we actually need is a young budget player filling a role or two like that but that's another conversation.

Any examples of players we could actually acquire? Cause I'm blanking on any.

I agree we definitely should acquire someone with a scoring touch.

 

[Shady Machine]

I agree about LW but i disagree about guys like Fehr and Bonino, i think guys like them can be the difference in a 7 game series just by chipping in one or two. The WBS guys are playing well for their expectations but are very little threat to score. Fehrs been a 20 goal guy, bonino has been a 50 point guy etc, now there not playing well so far this year but theres juice to squeeze there.

We agree but until they do it, I have a tough time getting all that excited about past production. We need them to perform for the Penguins and we need it now (well, when they are healthy).

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Any examples of players we could actually acquire? Cause I'm blanking on any.

I agree we definitely should acquire someone with a scoring touch.

Honestly, hell if I know. I'd have to look but if I'm being honest again I haven't really tried to map out this deadline but I don't even think they have the pieces to do anything of note. No first rounder and I'd like to keep Sprong and Pouliot and the picks we do have.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

This is the kind of game where we needed Kessel to pot a goal or two.

I've been a defender of his all season, but at some point he does have to start actually looking like the 30+ goal, 80 point player that the Pens were acquiring. Right now, it's hard to tell the difference between him and any random dude who can pot 15 or so goals at the NHL level.

 

[Shady Machine]

This board's infatuation with speed has gotten way out of control now. Seriously.

Speed is great, but give me guys who think the game well and have skills like shooting and dangling ability. THAT produces offense more often than speed.

You guys can have your speed, I'll take the Luc Robitaille's of the world.

Where is there a Luc Robitaille that's available?

The speed thing is taking a Hagelin over a Perron (and I wasn't happy with the trade at the time), not a Grabner over Robitaille.

I only bring up the speed thing because it has clearly become an identity for the Pens and has been successful over the last stretch run. It's obviously not the only way to win, but I'd take a speedy guy over a skill guy that can't score.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

We agree but until they do it, I have a tough time getting all that excited about past production. We need them to perform for the Penguins and we need it now (well, when they are healthy).

Oh I agree but its definitely a step up from a guy like Kuhn, Porter or Wilson (so far, I still have hope for him) who couldn't score in a ***** house with a sack full of cash.

 

[Hossa die Waldfee]

Any examples of players we could actually acquire? Cause I'm blanking on any.

I agree we definitely should acquire someone with a scoring touch.

I would argue that Bonino does have a scoring touch. He was one of our better players under MJ for periods of time. Word is he is streaky as ****, but if he can get hot in the playoffs he would help tremendously.

We don't know the severeness of Beau's injury, but if he gets fully healthy before the playoffs he might help too.

I would stand pat at the deadline. Chances that we upgrade on Kunitz are slim to nonexistent (although I feel like JR is not a big fan of him) so a upgrade a la Winnik or Mathias on our depth would cost assets I don't like to spend. If our top lines werer set longterm I wouldn't mind it. But those little assets might be useful around draft day. That is the time to look for longterm answers imo.