OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Tis the off season, Pirates are in port

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Empoleon8771

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I am disappointed they didn’t give Endy a more serious look because they have basically no one to backup Hedges, so there should have been a clear opportunity for him. You didn’t have to keep him up all year, you could send him down when he inevitably struggles like Suwinski and Castillo did. But I don’t know why they pretty much never even gave him a chance to claim the backup C role.

Tbh, I don’t know what goes into the decision for who gets service time manipulation and who doesn’t. It seems like they care about it with perceived “top prospects” but don’t do it for average prospects.
 

DJ Spinoza

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If we assume Castro is the starting 2B, then the options for the bench have dwindled down: backup C + 3 of Joe, Mathias, Bae, and CSN. Owings is still with the team but was told he's going to Indy the other day.

Joe got hit in the hand during today's game, which could be something, but the beat reporters seem to be treating it as nothing. To me, it seems like if there's enough playing time to go around, Bae and CSN might have shown enough to both stay around. Joe and Mathias kind of seem like similar players. Mathias has an option (so does Joe), so I'm inclined to think we just use that and have him as MiLB depth to start the year.

CSN could be part of a time share in the corners, and Bae can play some CF and 2B. Playing time should work out ok even though that's getting basically everyone into the mix quite a lot. I don't think there are any true blue everyday staples besides Hayes, Reynolds, and Cruz.
 
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DJ Spinoza

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Well that seems really bad.


Also, Mathias was optioned, so it seems like all of Bae, CSN, and Castro are going to be on the Opening Day roster.
 

Empoleon8771

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I’m surprised they kept up both Bae and Castro, but I’m certainly not complaining about it. Mathias doesn’t have the defense to play 2nd regularly anyway.

I’m guessing their opening day lineup at this point against Greene will be:

1. Cruz (SS)
2. Reynolds (LF)
3. McCutchen (RF)
4. Santana (1B)
5. Suwinski (CF)
6. Hayes (3B)
7. Choi (DH)
8. Castro (2B)
9. Hedges (C)

I’m hoping Bae excels though, I think they need his speed and contact abilities in this lineup. Hopefully he has a speedier Frazier type of impact.
 
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DJ Spinoza

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I was and in part still want to be fairly optimistic about the possibility of a Reynolds extension, but right now I just can't muster it. We know that the FO doesn't usually leak, so I think this kind of halfway talk is all we will get, but I just get the sense that Reynolds moving to LF full time doesn't really bode well.

It shouldn't be too difficult to reach a real middle ground if there's really will there, but I just can't muster the optimism. I guess the flip side might be that if we were totally resigned to trading him, it would make more sense to see if he can have 2-3 months of a better defensive showing in CF (especially over Suwinski, who I refuse to believe is a positive defender there even independently of this Reynolds question).

At the end of the day, I still hope for some potential patience if nothing gets done. There shouldn't be a rush to move him if we can't get an extension now, but obviously the relationship might be shot if we're trying to re-negotiating him and still basically not moving at all.
 
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ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
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I am happy to admit I was WRONG this off season. I wanted Dollander and thought Crews overrated given other prospects had similar years in 2022.

How can this kid not be a sprint to the podium, over-slot deal on draft day? I truly, truly hope the Bucs don't f*** this up. Unless DC falls off a cliff, this is a no-brainer pick at 1. Especially with the Reynolds uncertainty.

Sure, it was one thing to get off to a nuclear start against subpar, non conference opponents but he's literally RAISED his game against the SEC. 22 games.



I will say, this. Paul Skenes is having an incredible start to his year and is the only other player I think remotely worthy of being discussed at 1.1 and he's still a full tier below Crews right now.

6 starts
5-0 record
0.72 ERA
37 IP
14 hits
0 HR
7 BB
SEVENTY ONE K'S
0.563 WHIP
17 K's/9
1.9 BB/9
10/.14 K/BB ratio

 

td_ice

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I was and in part still want to be fairly optimistic about the possibility of a Reynolds extension, but right now I just can't muster it. We know that the FO doesn't usually leak, so I think this kind of halfway talk is all we will get, but I just get the sense that Reynolds moving to LF full time doesn't really bode well.

It shouldn't be too difficult to reach a real middle ground if there's really will there, but I just can't muster the optimism. I guess the flip side might be that if we were totally resigned to trading him, it would make more sense to see if he can have 2-3 months of a better defensive showing in CF (especially over Suwinski, who I refuse to believe is a positive defender there even independently of this Reynolds question).

At the end of the day, I still hope for some potential patience if nothing gets done. There shouldn't be a rush to move him if we can't get an extension now, but obviously the relationship might be shot if we're trying to re-negotiating him and still basically not moving at all.

I was listenig to the FAN while Jason M. was on.

He said, that he is hearing from some in the organization, are convinced that it (Reynolds ext.) will get done.

But then he cautioned that with, and I have heard from an equal number of people in the organization, that they DON'T believe it will get done. So a definitely a FWIW.
 
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DJ Spinoza

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What gives me more last minute cynicism besides the general doomerism of being a Pirates fan is that I think Reynolds was open to a longer runway for negotiating a deal throughout ST, and now it seems like we're in a higher stakes staring context through the end of the day tomorrow/Thursday morning. I just don't like the looks of everything: Reynolds seems somewhat fine with going to LF (at least based on his public comments), but that's more of a cementation of where any kind of cautious value projection is going to grade him out.

In other words, I think him immediately moving off CF instead of moving off CF somewhat gradually over the next 2-3 years gives even less leverage or talking points to Reynolds' side of things. Maybe I am misreading, but I get the sense that Reynolds is going to be more of the permanent fixture in LF with Suwinski and Bae sharing some time in CF as an experiment.

I think the Pirates just need to be willing to go to Reynolds' AAV ask at 7 years and then it's "reasonable" on both sides. My fear is that their offers will either include some kind of benchmark escalators or just be basically the same offer he turned down but with nominally more money and option years attached or something. There's sort of two sides to it right now, IMO. On one side, if both are willing to negotiate, there isn't a lot of ground to cover to work something on. On the other side, if there's not a lot of ground to cover and there are firm points either side won't cross, then that's more to worry about in terms of the possibility being permanently cratered. I lean a little towards the latter option and that any sourced or quasi-sourced stuff from Heyman and Mackey is all stuff that's coming directly from Cherington or a proxy. I hope I am wrong.
 
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Empoleon8771

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I don't think Cruz would get quite this much on an extension but I think this is a reasonable ballpark for what a Cruz extension would cost after this year. I don't think he'd get quite this much, Gimenez had 7.4 bWAR last year, but it's probably not too far off for a next off-season type of extension for Cruz if he has a 3-5 WAR season this year.
 

Ulf5

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Feb 21, 2017
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Bryan Reynolds is an embarrassing joke. Just sign the contract, kid. You're not McCutchen, you're not Brian Giles, you're not even Jason Bay. You haven't earned the right to negotiate for a better deal, kid.
Bob Nutting, is that you?

For the cardinals?

Sorry had to be done



Hes the only guy that ive seen that says langford is a better athlete.

But i do think hes on to something with the concept of whoever is the best defender is probably the better pick.

They both put up absurd numbers
:lol:
 

Empoleon8771

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Today is Reynolds Day, I think any extension with him would have to be completed today or it won't happen. It seems like negotiations probably won't carry on into the season, so today is really do or die day for it.

I'm not overly optimistic but we'll see.
 
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