OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: The Sun Will Come Out Tomorrow

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PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
May 22, 2015
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Cutch isn't close to an MVP player...one hot month doesn't mean he's back. Bucs should sell high on him before he goes back to batting under 260. Trade almost all 1-2 year contracts for prospects.


Also, how did Riverio not make the ASG, best reliever in the NL.
 

DanielPlainview

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Apr 28, 2009
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I completely agree with you. The only thing I'd say is that even the better/more complete roster versions of this team in recent years were capable of these kinds of maddening losses, although not on the scale of a half season.

I don't think it's anything too magical, and it's at least possible that something like the all-star break could rejuvenate a team with Marte coming back very soon, etc. I don't think that's going to happen, and I also think it's basically a moot point, since Cutch basically has to be traded and that kills any hypothetical hot streak cold in its tracks. The only way Cutch doesn't get traded in my opinion is if there are no offers even anywhere close what we are looking for.

I don't think Glasnow should come back up yet. He had a chance in MLB and couldn't put anything together for longer than two innings or so. He needs to limit his walks, work on his changeup, and locate his fastball consistently at the AAA level before he gets another chance. I was probably the most vocal supporter of the Glasnow experiment, but it was a failure, and while I fully believe he will continue to be able to meaninglessly dominate AAA hitters, he needs to do something to earn his way back into an opportunity. For me, the next in line is definitely Brault, and he should get the opportunity immediately after the all star break unless Kuhl turns in an excellent performance on Thursday.

Even just for the sake of a slight shake up, I think we need to turn to Brault for a little while to see what he can do.

Unless they're worried about Glasnow's mental game, in which case he may never be a consistently good major league pitcher, they have nothing to gain by letting him blow AAA hitters away. I'd bring him up at the end of the month after the firesale. No reason not to, IMO.
 

NewAgeOutlaw

Belie Dat!
Jul 15, 2011
30,201
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412/724
I still think the team since the start of June has been a team playing well enough to have a winning record over a full season except for the lack of 1 good back of the bullpen guy.

That's a huge problem. If they had a merely average 7th inning guy who knows where they'd be in the standings. That for me is the most frustrating thing. I'd be fully in favor of using Brault as a starter and moving Kuhl to the pen. Might fail, but at least it is something different than throwing Hudson and Watson out there in hopes of them becoming capable of getting people out consistently.

Any move is moving deck chairs on the titanic ultimately. If Marte can not get busted again and if Kang can manage to get out of Korea maybe the team has a shot next season.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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I suppose there's potentially an argument to be made about not trading Cutch. For me it would revolve more around not getting a respectable offer for him than any misplaced 2017 hopes, or perhaps more accurately placed 2018 hopes. Meadows may well be ready to step in by the end of spring training, and depending on how much you think Cutch's resurgence is just a flash in the pan, may even be more of a wash production-wise, which quickly leads to wanting to trade Cutch at any cost.

I'm not quite there, although I'm highly skeptical that Cutch will continue to be an impact player like this for the next two seasons, so I see the obvious value in just getting the max you can get right now and moving on. Plus, I think that any offensive success going forward depends heavily on the health/consistency/syncronization of Marte, Polanco, and Bell.

But for me it centers around whatever the return would be for Cutch. If you can only get so-so pitchers who maybe have mid-rotation or bullpen upside, I'm not sure I do it, even though from a cold, analytical perspective, supplementary pieces with lots of control are still important and still more valuable than 1.5 seasons of Cutch and then nothing. But if his resurgence has actually flipped the tables and made it possible to get a top-50 prospect plus supplementary pieces, or a young player, etc., then I'm not sure there's any argument to be made about holding onto him.

It's probably a pipe dream, but I wonder if there's any way the Astros can be talked into moving Bregman, either in a Cole or Cutch-centric deal, or something even more blockbuster-ish. He's probably still untouchable, but 3B is the biggest positional need over the next handful of years, other than maybe catcher (eventually, though I like Diaz a good bit, and trading for a catcher prospect is dumb).
 

DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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Nice to hear on Baz.

The more I think about it, the more I like my insanely improbable Bregman concoction (of course...). The Astros have plenty of elite young players, and the stars are aligning to give them an extremely strong chance to win it all this year. They might look to the Cubs for an example of still aggressively supplementing a dominant team, and although Bregman is better than anybody that the Cubs shipped off, the fact is he's underperformed this season and they should be focused on whatever they can do to win now.

I think you can definitely make the argument that Quintana is a better acquisition than Cole, and the White Sox would definitely trade him for Bregman, but it's not decisive one way or another. The Pirates also could package Freese in a deal, giving a standout veteran presence who can play some games at third base. Cole + Freese for Bregman, a mid-list prospect, and somebody way down on the list, which is quite deep in any case.

Houston potentially gives up an elite position player, but they have Correa, Altuve, Springer, etc., to fall back on as the offensive core of the team. Plus you add Cole right into the mix, and, here's the kicker, you basically don't have to touch your young stable of prospects. Cole would need to pick it up a bit to make this more plausible, but I can't imagine GMs would be extremely sour on him all things considered. He's had a small handful of very bad starts, and the HR problem is a real concern, but it's not like he's flaming out here. Keuchel-Cole-McCullers is a pretty devastating 1-2-3 punch when you have one of the most dynamic lineups in baseball as well, and you keep all this for the next 2.5 seasons.

From the Pirates perspective, a slightly struggling but potentially elite position player is exactly the cure that ails you for slotting somebody into the lineup immediately, and retooling for both 2018 and beyond. Trade Cutch for the best prospect haul you can get, and maybe toss Nicaso into one of the deals for some extra sweetening.

I'm trying to transition into Desiring All the Trades mode with one month to go before the deadline. For me, Bregman constitutes one of the only real ways I would trade Cole right now, since it's potentially just as easy or easier to get a massive prospect haul for him in the winter if we decide to go that route. The Astros were unwilling to move him in the winter, but maybe will be more antsy now both with seeing how dominant Sale has been and with seeing how threatening the Dodgers currently are. I'd put the odds of moving Cole at well below 50%, but for me this is the type of big swap that might actually make some sense. I'm looking beyond it at Cutch deals, possible veteran auctions, and also potential value grabs for next year and beyond. An extremely active deadline would at least bring some genuine excitement to this team.

More generally, a big splash like Bregman might be exactly the kind of shakeup the organization really needs. Sure, getting a massive haul of prospects from all hands on the trading deck would vault us towards the top of deep farms, but it's not exactly the clearest solution with the elements of a core already locked in until 2022 or so. I don't think it would be easy, and I can't see a similar analogue to Bregman on any other potential buyers, but I'm not sure what else to say. Huntington is really not in an enviable position.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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Cervelli's back, and we're also back to carrying three catchers again because he's probably gonna be hurt by Wednesday.
 

DJ Spinoza

Registered User
Aug 7, 2003
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There's really very little defense for sending Santana back vs. cutting ties with Bastardo completely. Nobody is going to even give us a PTBNL/$1 trade for him at the deadline, so I'm not sure what the play is here other than stubbornness in admitting a mistake.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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Nova does not look especially sharp again, and the Phillies have hammered some balls tonight already. This is not shaping up to be great.

Edit: Nova's settled in a bit more, but Nola looks very good, and as we know the offense is atrocious, so this one might end up being a shutout.
 
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DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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On a positive note for me, at least Nola is on my fantasy team. We have no chance whatsoever to come back in this game. Maybe if we can get Nola out by the 7th inning, but we look like a defeated team, and we are a defeated team. I'd be surprised if we get swept here, but one way or another, these are the final four nails in the season's coffin.

About the only thing to look forward to is maybe being a spoiler for the Brewers against the Cubs.

Sell, sell, sell.
 

Pick87your71Poison

Registered User
Jul 3, 2008
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The Burgh
Good old Jeff Locke today vs the Cards. 2.2 IP, 15 base runners (11 hits, 4 walks), 11 ERs, 84 pitches.

At least we don't have to watch that anymore so there's a silver lining for everyone.
 

Pick87your71Poison

Registered User
Jul 3, 2008
7,501
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The Burgh
Well if this was a make or break week with 7 games against the 2 worst teams in all of MLB, I think we can safely say this team is breaking with an 0-4 start.
 

DanielPlainview

Registered User
Apr 28, 2009
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Assuming they're not going to entirely give up on the season...

First to go: Hurdle.

Next: Watson, Hudson, and Bastardo. I don't care if all they can get is organizational depth and a box of Big League Chew, they must get these bums out of here.

Call up: Santana, Glasnow, and Brault. Send Kuhl and Williams to the pen.

Move: I think this will be disappointing for most people. The only guys with value to consider are JHay, who's stock in probably at its peak, and McCutchen, who's value is probably not great even with his recent return to form (I think GMs will deal with the Pirates as if he's got one foot dangling off the cliff when discussing prospects). Whether to move them obviously depends on the haul, and I don't think the Pirates will get any offers they'd consider worthwhile.

I would dangle Cervelli. I'm not sure who would bite on an oft-injured catcher, but with Diaz emerging as at least decent, there's no place for him unless the manager is willing to roll with 3 catchers.

The Lineup:
1. Frazier - 2B
2. Harrison - 3B
3. Marte - LF
4. McCutchen - CF
5. Bell - 1B
6. Polanco - RF
7. Diaz - C
8. Mercer - SS
9. TBD - P

The Bench:
Freese
Jaso
Stewart
Osuna
Moroff/Gosselin/Gift because they lack a pinch runner?

The Rotation:
1. Taillon
2. Nova
3. Cole
4. Brault
5. Glasnow

The Bullpen:
Kuhl
Williams
Santana
Nicasio
LeBlanc
Marinez
Rivero
 

Cherpak

Registered User
Jan 1, 2014
5,059
3
Assuming they're not going to entirely give up on the season...

First to go: Hurdle.

Next: Watson, Hudson, and Bastardo. I don't care if all they can get is organizational depth and a box of Big League Chew, they must get these bums out of here.

Call up: Santana, Glasnow, and Brault. Send Kuhl and Williams to the pen.

Move: I think this will be disappointing for most people. The only guys with value to consider are JHay, who's stock in probably at its peak, and McCutchen, who's value is probably not great even with his recent return to form (I think GMs will deal with the Pirates as if he's got one foot dangling off the cliff when discussing prospects). Whether to move them obviously depends on the haul, and I don't think the Pirates will get any offers they'd consider worthwhile.

I would dangle Cervelli. I'm not sure who would bite on an oft-injured catcher, but with Diaz emerging as at least decent, there's no place for him unless the manager is willing to roll with 3 catchers.

The Lineup:
1. Frazier - 2B
2. Harrison - 3B
3. Marte - LF
4. McCutchen - CF
5. Bell - 1B
6. Polanco - RF
7. Diaz - C
8. Mercer - SS
9. TBD - P

The Bench:
Freese
Jaso
Stewart
Osuna
Moroff/Gosselin/Gift because they lack a pinch runner?

The Rotation:
1. Taillon
2. Nova
3. Cole
4. Brault
5. Glasnow

The Bullpen:
Kuhl
Williams
Santana
Nicasio
LeBlanc
Marinez
Rivero

What have they done to deserve a demotion? Better yet, what have Glasnow/Brault done to deserve their spots?

If anything, you call them up and send Glasnow/Brault to the pen and make them earn a spot start here and there. Not the other way around.

The Pirates would be black listed by players and agents alike if they operated with such disregard.
 
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