OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: The Last Day(s) of Cutch?

[Winger for Hire]

I wonder what the Mets would want for Zack Wheeler? Seems like he could be a decent, though high risk, rehab candidate.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Edit- Cardinals are also in this top spending group

 

[Asuna]

Good stuff. No reason not to use the entire bonus.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Sorry for all the Twitter updates, but I found this one interesting. That looks like a lot of catchable balls fell in for hits around Cutch last year. Big gap between what Cutch can and can't get to.




Edit- This is too funny not to post

 

[Winger for Hire]

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Makes sense that Ross can demand that, really. Guys who are total mediocre garbage, and pretty much guaranteed to be so (sorry, Charlie) can get more than that.

There are a lot of variables in terms of how the Pirates should approach the situation. If we are able to land two ready pitchers in a Cutch deal, then gambling some on Ross for one year might make a lot of sense, because unless we also get Gio or another veteran, there will be ample payroll room.

I think my play with Ross would be to give him the guaranteed one year deal, but then at least try to work in a team option or two in order to get some value back if he rehabs successfully and pitches well.

 

[djt153]

after last off season and the way this has gone with cutch, getting pretty close to a no confidence vote for huntington

 

[Asuna]

Nats just gave up Giolito and Lopez for Eaton. Damnnnn

 

[Winger for Hire]

The haul for Cutch is gonna be so disappointing...

 

[Retrocity]

Nats get Eaton from the White Sox for Giolito, Lopez, and Dane Dunning.

So were the Bucs adamant on getting Robles or did the Nats not offer Giolito and Lopez to the Bucs.

 

[TNT87]

Nats just gave up Giolito and Lopez for Eaton. Damnnnn

I'm going to be sick.

 

[Oxide]

Neal doesn't seem to be the best at negotiating the most out of a trade.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Keep him and hope he improves next season. Shows teams he's not on the decline.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Keep him and hope he improves next season. Shows teams he's not on the decline.

Losing value unless he puts up MVP numbers

 

[Oxide]

Losing value unless he puts up MVP numbers

Yep, whoever wants him right now is already banking on him bouncing back.

 

[Winger for Hire]

If they hold Cutch they have to be aggressive now, or else you waste another season and asset depreciation for minor tweaks when the rest have made big improvements.

Atlanta and Colorado have at least pulled even with them and StL on paper for that last WC spot, IMO... not to mention the runners up between the Met/Nats and Dodgers/Giants.

 

[Cherpak]

after last off season and the way this has gone with cutch, getting pretty close to a no confidence vote for huntington

Well at least he isn't a hostage negotiator....

 

[DJ Spinoza]

With Giolito's stock being somewhat questionable, I think I'm fine with NH holding pat. Yeah, we all got worked up over which Nationals prospects we want, but at least for me, the hard call would be whether there were only two out of three of the pitchers and a lesser prospect. It's an amazing prospect haul still, but I'm mainly concerned with this team establishing a clear plan that isn't sacrificing on 2017 quality. This trade could have been something of a boon in 2017, if you are high on Giolito's immediate transition, and Lopez staying as a starter, but it also could have been muddled once the shine wore off the new prospects.

If somebody like Ross was part of the deal, on the other hand, you have some more assurances about a hole being filled in 2017 on top of the good prospect haul.

This changes somewhat if Robles were included, but it seems clear as day now that he's the Harper replacement and was never on the table.

Two further things: doing nothing is not in itself any coherent strategy, and so this is not an exonerate NH post. I'm just happy to stand firm on the idea that we can decide to hold onto McCutchen if the exact offer is not there.

The second thing, more alarming, is that nothing comparable was ever there from the Nationals, which seems a little hard to believe, but indicates some problems as far as any Cutch trade in the near future. Maybe Rizzo would offer Giolito, Dunning, and someone lesser, or Lopez, Dunning, and someone lesser. Those are not terrible returns, but they aren't exactly "returns on one of the greatest Pirates in team history."

And while that latter point is not a good benchmark to judge any trade that's going to happen, I think it's somewhat telling that the general fan reaction is extremely negative. Most people seemed to be initially opposed to any trade vehemently, and as with the inertia of things, it becomes desirable to see anything happen with the Pirates. Well, I don't think Cutch will exactly go back to MVP status, but the player we saw for most of 2016 is not Andrew McCutchen. He will be an impact player in 2017, for us or for somebody else.

Going forward, the one thing I'd like to see transpire is Washington to miss out on a closer, which is what they really need. Then NH might have some really strong leverage in moving Watson, and be able to pull off a similar type trade as the Melancon deal, since there will be no options for the Nationals (and worth noting here - with a pitching logjam a possibility, Lopez or Giolito could have easily been bullpen contributors in Washington, and now that option is gone).

 

[TNT87]

 

[Empoleon8771]

Apparently Huntington didn't learn his lesson last year that dumpster diving for pitchers isn't good enough if they're in the running for Holland. I guess Vogelsong, Niese and Nicaso collapsing wasn't enough. And yes, I know Nova worked, but Nova was the only guy of like 5 that actually worked.

 

[clefty]

Hooray?

 

[Pens x]

after last off season and the way this has gone with cutch, getting pretty close to a no confidence vote for huntington

You are just now getting close to having no confidence for Huntington?

I think most people lost confidence him year ago, if not sooner. The has decimated a playoff contender into a below 500 team inoressingly quickly.

He can't do any worse than last offseason, I hope.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

L e t ' s n o t l o s e p e r s p e c t i v e . . .

Holland is not very appealing, but in part, the Pirates need arms to eat innings. Vogelsong was useful to some extent last year, as were the quality innings we got from other middling types. The biggest problem is that we still need at least an impact player in the rotation, in addition to depth. Holland or somebody like him on top of Kuhl, Brault, Williams, and others, isn't intrinsically bad, but with just Cole and Taillon at the top, and us waiting on Glasnow, it will turn out bad.

Huntington needs to aggressively turn his attention to the Rays and either Smyly or Odorizzi. I like Smyly more, and like getting a lefty, but if I had to guess, he will cost more. Depending on the cost, getting Odorizzi and also taking a flier on Alex Cobb might not be a horrible idea. Odorizzi should be a reliable enough #3 guy, and is controllable for three years too. Cobb just has one more year of control, and due to his injury troubles, the Rays may be better off trying to see if he'll be healthy and pitch well, which would make him a better rental candidate, but maybe the Pirates would be able to do something like budge on a relatively high prospect like Tucker, and include some lower pitching talent as well, in order to get the second pitcher along with Odorizzi. Just speculating out loud, as usual.

In any case, I still want to reiterate that I'm not just trying to defend Huntington. He has to act and act decisively, but if he couldn't get the package he wanted from Washington, I'm happy he held firm on McCutchen. There are several reasons to have no faith in him, but the winter meetings are not over yet, and the offseason possibilities have only just begun.