OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: The Last Day(s) of Cutch?

[DJ Spinoza]

I appreciate the compliments guys, but I'm literally just reading various twitter feeds and then making crazy hypothetical stuff that won't happen up. It's good that we have a balance of people in the thread, others who have better knowledge of the wider prospect scene, etc.

I don't think Rizzo will be pressured too much, but the independent factor is really that Harper's clock is ticking for them, and they have a much more massive investment in the current team than almost anybody else. If they can't put together at least a WS run very soon, Rizzo's job could be on the line. It's probably not worth being too sparse with prospects who are still 2-3 years away for him. If we could land Robles, Ross, and another solid piece, I think it's a fine deal for both sides. Maybe Robles, Ross, and Roark for McCutchen and Watson. Then turn around and make a deal for Smyly, and we'll for once have a controllable core of good pitchers, even if no single pitcher is a light's out elite ace.

Only after that type of maneuvering do I think it makes sense to go after a reclamation like Tyson Ross or Holland, but that type of maneuvering is much easier said than done.

 

[Winger for Hire]

If we can't get a major league ready arm from the Nats, we should look at Texas. Gallo and Profar would be an awesome haul if we can then turn around and trade Harrison for prospects. Then take those prospects and our extras and flip for a lefty. That would round out our lineup/rotation really well and reduce our cost.

I thought I saw that Profar was a complete non-starter for Texas, even then, they need to get at least one MLB/full year in AAA pitcher back in a deal.

 

[Winger for Hire]

I would love for them to deal for Smyly

Also, while the Sale to BOS trade could help the Pirates, it still is an example of how much an advantage money is in the MLB. The Sox bought a really nice farm system, while still being able to throw money at the MLB team which gives them almost unlimited ammo in these kind of deals.

 

[Fogel]

 

[DJ Spinoza]

This is me just speculating. We seem to love that word lately.

What if Robles is the prospect that Rizzo is standing pat against? From everything I have read they absolutely love the kid. There was even word that Robles was never even offered to the Pirates as part of any deal. Robles may even be what gave pause to Rizzo for Sale. He just may be that untouchable.

Yeah, I think that's a good hunch. His stock is definitely doing nothing but soaring right now, and combined with these rumors about Harper asking for 400 million dollars, they may just view him as the cornerstone for the long-term plans.

I'd happily do Giolito + Ross or something, but that's maybe a much harder sell for the Nationals for other reasons. It's strange, even though they have a ton of good assets, we aren't exactly an ideal matchup in my mind because they really need pitching more than an impact hitter.

One other minor note is that the Sale deal seems official, but Crasnik seems to be suggesting that maybe not all the final details have been worked out.

Going the Texas route would be interesting, if a bit counterintuitive. If Profar's not a non-starter, that could be very interesting.

 

[Cherpak]

If Harper gets 400 mill then the system is officially busted. Yeah I know its already broken but this would confirm its not only broken but smashed into a thousand pieces, set on fire and its ashes scattered over every ball park in MLB.

Harper in no way is worth that. He's had one great season that led to the MVP. If I was going to pay ANYONE that kind of dough, thats if I was a bat**** crazy owner, it would be Mike Trout.

IMO no one is worth that.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Final outside the box idea and then I'm going to go do things away from the internet and hope something else exciting happens. Red Sox now have something of a glut of pitchers - wonder what it would take to get Eduardo Rogriguez? Tons of years of control on him (through 2021), and enough question marks that maybe he becomes expendable in the right deal for them.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Haha, Nats might not have really been in serious contention for Sale.

 

[Cherpak]

If thats true, well played by the White Sox.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Pirates open next season vs Price, Sale, Porcello.

I think I'm going to unplug from any local news sources in the beginning of the season.

 

[Cherpak]

Pirates open next season vs Price, Sale, Porcello.

I think I'm going to unplug from any local news sources in the beginning of the season.

At Fenway on top of that.

Christ I won't be able to endure three days of that ****.

Well opening day and the first week of the season is ruined for me.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Fun fact, the Pirates' payroll has risen $60.8m since 2010 (~$39mil to ~$99mil) since 2010.

 

[Beauner]

Fun fact, the Pirates' payroll has risen $60.8m since 2010 (~$39mil to ~$99mil) since 2010.

Well yeah, they were rebuilding and had absolutely no good players.

Quick research says their payroll was 25th on opening day last year. Right under the Indians of all teams. Then again at least they went all in at the deadline instead of holding steady waiting for that mythical "future"

 

[TNT87]

 

[Winger for Hire]

I wonder how much Rizzo wants to make that big splashy deal...

 

[Cherpak]

If this is true, then it really puts the Pirates in the drivers seat.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

The thought of Sale in Boston makes me a little sick to the stomach...but it definitely puts the pressure on Washington to at least get one of their three big targets, so...I'll take it.

If the Dodgers either trade for or drive the value of McCutchen up I'll have to give my adopted local team a Stargell star.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

The next best thing that can happen is Chapman signing a massive deal to go to the Marlins or something, and Janson signing anywhere but Washington.

That makes Watson a decisive final piece, which is what the Nationals really need. I imagine they may be having discussions about whether to prioritize going after one of the RPs, which is more of an immediate need for them this year, and risk us dealing Cutch and/or Watson in the meantime. In that respect, more Dodgers and Rangers rumblings help us out.

I've still been wondering who the mystery team might be. Maybe the Indians, but I don't know what the fit would be for us trade-wise. Tigers were an outside the box thought, but their situation is a mess, and I'm also not sure what their fit would be with us. Fulmer has to be off the table, and somebody like Norris is intriguing but not worth it as the centerpiece for Cutch.

 

[Cherpak]

The thought of Sale in Boston makes me a little sick to the stomach...but it definitely puts the pressure on Washington to at least get one of their three big targets, so...I'll take it.

If the Dodgers either trade for or drive the value of McCutchen up I'll have to give my adopted local team a Stargell star.

You mean an additional Stargell Star. Thought they already had one waaay out in the OF.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

You mean an additional Stargell Star. Thought they already had one waaay out in the OF.

 

[Cherpak]

Ok so 3 stars.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Heyman says that Nationals did offer top prospects for Sale, but doesn't name them. Has to mean some combination of Robles, Giolito, and Lopez.

Question is whether they are willing to up their offer to the Pirates. I like holding fast to Robles + one of the pitchers, especially if Watson is involved.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Heyman says that Nationals did offer top prospects for Sale, but doesn't name them. Has to mean some combination of Robles, Giolito, and Lopez.

Question is whether they are willing to up their offer to the Pirates. I like holding fast to Robles + one of the pitchers, especially if Watson is involved.

If they don't want to add Robles( which I'd be OK with since we are fine in OF) then get Giolito and Lopez. We were suppose to draft Giolito that year anyways, no way should he have fallen that far.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What kind of pitcher would you consider Ross? He has a 3.5 ERA in his career so far and he's only 23, I think he could be a really intriguing part of our future rotation with Taillon and Glasnow (along with any other pitching prospect the Pirates get for McCutchen).

I'd be a little hesitant to only get pitching for McCutchen though, I'd probably prefer one position player and two pitchers in a trade for him (ideally 2 prospects and 1 MLBer).

 

[Brandinho]

I disagree. McCutchen could rebound and play like a star again. Nobody knows. He certainly declined this season, but he could turn it around. There's much more risk in not setting our sites too high. If we don't get good pieces back for McCutchen, then you can kiss our chances of contending goodbye

The projection systems do expect a rebound offensively, but certainly not to star levels. His defense isn't rebounding, that ship has sailed. Something that you're overlooking is that teams who are interested in acquiring him are also expecting a rebound. Nobody would want McCutchen if they believed that last year's performance was the new norm for him. So let's say we hold onto him and he has a better season offensively, let's say he splits the difference between 2014 and 2016. Does his value go up? No, actually, it doesn't. Teams who wanted him were already expecting a rebound and now he has one less year of control. For his value to go up from where it is now, he'd have to put up an MVP calibre season and, while that isn't technically impossible, there's no reasonable basis for expecting that to happen.