OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: The Condemned of Altoona Continued

[DJ Spinoza]

The Trade Deadline’s Most Interesting Lefty | FanGraphs Baseball

Jeff Sullivan has a good write up on Conley, if anyone is looking to kill time til the game / we have another rain delay situation.

It sounds like the Marlins will want a whole lot for their controllable bullpen arms, but we'll have to see. There are a ton of relievers available, and they might get desperate to get some value at the deadline. Who knows what the hell their plan is, though. One thing the Conley hype has me thinking is that a better route to take would be finding this type of reliever before they've started to have success. Also, however obvious the middle relief need might be, another thing to keep in mind is that once Burdi rehabs, he has to go on the 25-man roster. Obviously we could just give up on him, and I don't know if it's possible to weasel around with his rehab until September (and even then, not sure how the Rule 5 rules work), but he may be the bullpen help that's forthcoming, especially if he impresses in his minor league appearances.

Brault seems like the likeliest option to be optioned, although one patch could just be trying to use him as a LOOGY, since his numbers vs lefties are pretty good. In any case, in my eyes, a minor bullpen arm makes some sense, but I'm irrationally fixated on the blockbuster possibilities and pushing for the division. Trading Alemais or something for an ok rental would be fine, but trying out Burdi or moving Holmes to reliever would also be suitable...I doubt we'll have a lot of good things to talk about if this final spot in the bullpen becomes a huge necessity down the stretch.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I give huge props to DJ for being so insightful and thorough in his takes on the Bucs. I'll say that much!

The problem the Pirates have, beyond the ownership, is that they, top to bottom, operate like an extremely conservative business. They're content with making a small profit, consistently, they might even splurge a little here or there, but overall they're like a metronome. They handle their prospects with kids gloves. They handle their MLB talent with kids gloves (see, Cole, Gerrit). I don't see them give prospects big pushes when they're on fire that you so commonly see with guys in say a Dodgers system. Ok, yeah occasionally a few guys have played above their age, but it's a rare sight for Pirates prospects.

I think they are a micro managed, penny pinching team and it shows on the field.

I don't blame Huntington near as much as I do Hurdle for the ups and downs. Huntington gets his marching orders from Nutting and the payroll people. He can only do so much. Now, he's nailed some trades. Made some brilliant signings. And he's also whiffed. That's a nature of being a GM, especially one that doesn't have much money to spend.

Hurdle is a completely different animal. I think he's an old school, mind over matter type and it really doesn't gel with the advanced analytical approach the Pirates have seemed to adopt at the FO level. It just seems you have 2 opposing forces slamming up against each other. There's no excuse for seeing Sean Rodriguez in an MLB uniform. None. The advanced numbers spell it out. The f***ing eye test does as well. Yet, we see the same tired routine, day in and day out. We can throw out numerous players from the past 6 years. And don't tell me Neal Huntington and the number crunchers would advocate starting somebody like SRod regularly.

But the Pirates are a small market team. I think they could absolutely spend more money than they do, but obviously they aren't the Yankees or Dodgers. 98% of people get that. So to see an astute GM continually play uber conservative with trades and signings, leads me to only one conclusion. Nutting and company won't allow him to go star searching.

Our system has been stacked for quite some time. It's not quite elite but we're better than most IMO, and we absolutely have the depth to go after a big name, a game changing talent, and not completely rip apart the farm. Trading for Degrom or even Machado would not starve the Pirates. That much is quite clear when you look around at some of the deals being made for higher end impact players. And even somebody like Degrom won't break the bank. He isn't a 30M a year guy where you could legitimately say, "well, we can't fit him in the budget".....

So until I see a legit effort from the FO to bring in a premium talent, I'm not buying anything the Pirates are selling. You can have the Marlon Byrd's and Derek Lee's. Those guys might get you a few more wins down the stretch, and they might play above replacement levels, but they aren't going to get you past a MadBum, or deep into the postseason.

Mitch Keller is not proven at the real level. Cole Tucker is not proven. Tyler Glasnow is a perfect example of why you can't have the mindset that prospects are pure gold (small market be damned). A couple of years ago, you could have probably landed multiple years of Stanton for Polanco, Glasnow and another good name and there were people advocating not doing something along those lines.

If you could have traded our #4 prospect (Diaz was for Dodgers) or even say #3 and then another 4 guys, none of which were in the top 10 for a few months of Machado, would you do it? You'd be f***ing nuts not to bring in one of the 3-4 best players in the game. Especially at that price. Of course he's not going to sign here, but Manny Machado is the type of player who you can win a WS series with as a small market team. And the Bucs will never do that, which is sad.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Sources: Pittsburgh Pirates interested in Rangers closer Keone Kela

First rumor I've seen linking us to a specific player.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Business

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Matt Harvey getting tagged for 4 HRs on Sunday cost me -40 points on one of my fantasy teams. I tried in vain to put Bieber on the bench at about 7:01. I'll gladly take another -40 points, though. f*** fantasy baseball.

This is seriously some cheat code shit.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Matt Harvey getting tagged for 4 HRs on Sunday cost me -40 points on one of my fantasy teams. I tried in vain to put Bieber on the bench at about 7:01. I'll gladly take another -40 points, though. **** fantasy baseball.

This is seriously some cheat code ****.

Need Musgrove to come thru now. Indians offense is not what we saw from them last night.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Could get a huge return for Dickerson at this point.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

n o t h i n g c a n g o w r o n g

 

[Beauner]

What the actual f***. How is this happening

Edit: also I don't usually mind Greg Brown but dude, shut the f*** up. Stop begging people to buy tickets. It's just sad

 

[Coastal Kev]

This is crazy.... the outfield are all crushing the ball right now.


Edit: I love the DH, and I think it's beyond stupid that there are different rules in the sport.

Beyond stupid

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I propose a crowd funding effort in this thread to provide for me and ImporterExporter, in a show of unity, to be able to sustain ourselves while we harangue and harass NH over the next 6 days to trade for deGrom.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

What the actual ****. How is this happening

Edit: also I don't usually mind Greg Brown but dude, shut the **** up. Stop begging people to buy tickets. It's just sad

Bigger question is how they went 13-32. Still hard to get over that, but this is helping.

Polanco, Marte, Dickerson, and even Bell now are doing what was expected. This is what we needed when pitching was off during that losing stretch. Now we are getting great pitching and hitting. Games are over by the 3rd inning lately. Had to sweat every win out earlier in the year.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

3rd time thru the order already while they are just starting their second...keep it up.

Taillon vs Bauer tomm. Huge matchup.

 

[Winger for Hire]

I propose a crowd funding effort in this thread to provide for me and ImporterExporter, in a show of unity, to be able to sustain ourselves while we harangue and harass NH over the next 6 days to trade for deGrom.

I can scrounge up $20 for this

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Josh Bell hitting a home run is basically the final check mark on a list of what you'd draw up as "still want" at this point.

Go Diamondbacks!

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Josh Bell hitting a home run is basically the final check mark on a list of what you'd draw up as "still want" at this point.

Go Diamondbacks!

Ha..yup. Said we need either Bell or Moran to start hitting for power and we are set. Altho Bell has been great lately.

Dickerson better be ok. Last thing we need is him to be out for awhile after going on this streak.

Injured groin

 

[DJ Spinoza]

"Left hamstring discomfort" for Dickerson. I'd guess he will at least be held out tomorrow as a precaution. Hopefully it's just caution.

Looks like Britton to the Yankees is done.

 

[Ms Maggie]

Isn't this fun?!?!?

 

[cookthebooks]

this is utterly amazing

 

[Brandinho]

I tuned in late, saw 9 runs and assumed it was a replay of yesterday's game. 11 in a row, this is ridiculous.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I give huge props to DJ for being so insightful and thorough in his takes on the Bucs. I'll say that much!

The problem the Pirates have, beyond the ownership, is that they, top to bottom, operate like an extremely conservative business. They're content with making a small profit, consistently, they might even splurge a little here or there, but overall they're like a metronome. They handle their prospects with kids gloves. They handle their MLB talent with kids gloves (see, Cole, Gerrit). I don't see them give prospects big pushes when they're on fire that you so commonly see with guys in say a Dodgers system. Ok, yeah occasionally a few guys have played above their age, but it's a rare sight for Pirates prospects.

I think they are a micro managed, penny pinching team and it shows on the field.

I don't blame Huntington near as much as I do Hurdle for the ups and downs. Huntington gets his marching orders from Nutting and the payroll people. He can only do so much. Now, he's nailed some trades. Made some brilliant signings. And he's also whiffed. That's a nature of being a GM, especially one that doesn't have much money to spend.

Hurdle is a completely different animal. I think he's an old school, mind over matter type and it really doesn't gel with the advanced analytical approach the Pirates have seemed to adopt at the FO level. It just seems you have 2 opposing forces slamming up against each other. There's no excuse for seeing Sean Rodriguez in an MLB uniform. None. The advanced numbers spell it out. The ****ing eye test does as well. Yet, we see the same tired routine, day in and day out. We can throw out numerous players from the past 6 years. And don't tell me Neal Huntington and the number crunchers would advocate starting somebody like SRod regularly.

But the Pirates are a small market team. I think they could absolutely spend more money than they do, but obviously they aren't the Yankees or Dodgers. 98% of people get that. So to see an astute GM continually play uber conservative with trades and signings, leads me to only one conclusion. Nutting and company won't allow him to go star searching.

Our system has been stacked for quite some time. It's not quite elite but we're better than most IMO, and we absolutely have the depth to go after a big name, a game changing talent, and not completely rip apart the farm. Trading for Degrom or even Machado would not starve the Pirates. That much is quite clear when you look around at some of the deals being made for higher end impact players. And even somebody like Degrom won't break the bank. He isn't a 30M a year guy where you could legitimately say, "well, we can't fit him in the budget".....

So until I see a legit effort from the FO to bring in a premium talent, I'm not buying anything the Pirates are selling. You can have the Marlon Byrd's and Derek Lee's. Those guys might get you a few more wins down the stretch, and they might play above replacement levels, but they aren't going to get you past a MadBum, or deep into the postseason.

Mitch Keller is not proven at the real level. Cole Tucker is not proven. Tyler Glasnow is a perfect example of why you can't have the mindset that prospects are pure gold (small market be damned). A couple of years ago, you could have probably landed multiple years of Stanton for Polanco, Glasnow and another good name and there were people advocating not doing something along those lines.

If you could have traded our #4 prospect (Diaz was for Dodgers) or even say #3 and then another 4 guys, none of which were in the top 10 for a few months of Machado, would you do it? You'd be ****ing nuts not to bring in one of the 3-4 best players in the game. Especially at that price. Of course he's not going to sign here, but Manny Machado is the type of player who you can win a WS series with as a small market team. And the Bucs will never do that, which is sad.

That only works if you cherry pick the "busted" prospects and trades.

Watch i can so it too.

The Mets wanted Marte dor Beltran in 2012 (?). If we do that deal, we still fall apart and now are missing one of our core pieces ever since. Also give up Bell and Taillon for 2 months of Price when Happ pitched just as well for Adrian f'in Sampson. So this year and the next handful are ahot as well

But hey you would get that adreline rush of winning the deadline so...

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Cubs lost again, so we're six back in the division. It would take some real luck, but shaving off two more games between now and when we face them isn't totally insane. We'd have to go 4-1, with them going 2-3 in two games vs the Diamondbacks and three vs the Cardinals.

Everything is especially out of proportion because of how handedly we've beaten the Indians in these games. Batting practice against some Reds pitchers is understandable, but the first two innings of both of these games have been relentless, and both were also full exploitations of a badly timed mistake (or two, last night) on the Indians part. If those mistakes went a different way, we still have nice, little early leads, but maybe the games get more stressful. Williams and Musgrove both tapered a little bit towards the end of their starts.

To sound a note of slight pessimism, I'm still not totally sold on Musgrove. I like him, and think it's worth remembering that he's still a very young pitcher all things considered, but he goes through patches where it's easy to see how he gets tagged for a bunch of runs. He got away with some very bad pitches early on tonight, but then mostly was able to settle things down and just take care of business.

Overall, obviously not much bad you can say about the first turn through the rotation post-ASB. I was pretty adamant in my novel-length looking ahead post that we needed a good start, 7-3, and then 4-1, and we've already put a good number of wins in the bank. Need another sharp outing from Taillon as we just continue to ride out this wave as far as it would go. Bauer's been better than ever this season, probably, but walks remain somewhat of an issue for him. Wouldn't mind seeing Colin Moran join the HR parade with a couple guys on, tomorrow.

Too obvious, given Dickerson's possible need for a day or two down, is that it opens up a chance for Hurdle to get S-Rod back into the mix tomorrow.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Nats let the Brewers come back and LA let Philly back in it. Rockies tied it up. Not a good night for scoreboard watching.

Pirates gonna just have to win the rest of their games

 

[Honour Over Glory]

11 wins, GM wants to add instead of trade away talent...

I am so confused right now.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Brewers ended up winning, but I think in any case, eyes should be on the prize of the division. We're still only barely on the fringe, but the Cubs are scuffling a little bit, and so the catapult might just continue, which means that the rest of the season story-projection pretty much gets rewritten post-deadline.

Obviously, the WC is much more feasible and it makes sense to stay soberly focused on it, but one thing that's also different this season is that the other division teams are much less consistent. This also includes us, but I can still remember all those times in 2015 where nothing we could do would even make up 0.5 games.

Regardless of which race to focus on, we're set up for a dramatic and meaningful two months of nervewracking games. Can't ask for much more drama in regular season baseball.