OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Seven Springs Eternal

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DJ Spinoza

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Solid outing again from Mugrove. The results aren't quite there yet, but they aren't bad and Bucknor screwed him pretty badly twice tonight, including on an obvious strike three that cost him getting through thse 6th.
 

DJ Spinoza

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I think in the aggregate the bullpen is still very bad, but it's pretty difficult to look at these first couple of series and conclude anything other than the offense is driving us towards the cellar. You can count the number of good ABs by the key offensive performers on one hand if you exclude Moran from the group. On to the next.
 

DanielPlainview

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If the offense is going to be this bad, I don't see what's gained by having Tucker on the bench. Or Osuna. They both bring high quality gloves that may help keep scores manageable. The SP hasn't been bad so making it even more difficult to score would make sense and maybe help with longevity a little
 

bigdaddyk88

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I keep hoping Frazier gets hot cause I know Oakland likes him and Murphy fills a catcher need for us. Dyson heredia have no future with this club. Why are we need playing Craig with the DH and bell not hitting.
 

ImporterExporter

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DJ Spinoza

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I'm not super infatuated with Osuna, to be honest. I agree he should play, but I don't know that it's an imperative. I think the basic problem is a very typically Pirates one, which is that there's a lot of mediocrity mixed in with the various guys who have potential. And I mean "a lot" also in a literal sense of us having a fair amount of relatively interchangeable depth. A number of these guys can be pretty useful complimentary players, but there's little improvement overall without a few impact guys popping up.

A boring take probably, but we're just where we were with Marte but a fairly big step back. If you had his bat and speed at the top of the lineup and Reynolds and Bell were actually hitting, the offense wouldn't be half bad.

The priority needs to be on finding out if anybody can pop up and actually provide some impact. I think that's where Tucker comes in: it's obviously speculation-driven right now, but if he can hit for some power, including XBH, then with his speed, he can give you a little more than just the average offensive production. As much as I don't like him, Moran is likely the best candidate for the latter on the team, in the sense of consistency. I think Osuna can give you some of that with a bit more power, but he gets exposed when he plays too regularly IMO. In an ideal world you only have one or two guys like that playing regularly.

Frazier isn't good. I wouldn't be shocked if his HR the other day is the only hit he has for another week. I'd love to see him shipped out for whatever we can pry, but I wouldn't get my hopes up about it being much. If Oakland is still infatuated and willing to give up Jonah Heim, that might be a plunge worth taking.

Beyond that, I just don't trust Newman as such a contact-heavy guy. Yet again, it's not the end of the world if he's in the lineup, but it's just not ideal without standout guys. I have much more confidence in Reynolds, but I don't know if he has another gear in him to step forward. I think he can be a consistently useful everyday OF, providing 2.5-3 WAR in a normal season, and it's definitely an encouraging sign that his defense is showing another gear.

I've mostly defended Bell for a long time, but he's clearly out of sorts so far. That's not really unique if you look around at the entire league – Yelich this week is a case in point. I remain very skeptical of the idea that he could have been traded at one point for a giant haul, but his trade value was certainly higher than it is right now, and it's hard to be optimistic about his future either as a cornerstone or big trade piece.

At the end of the day it's a collection of players that can be more than the sum of its parts when things are going well. It's a sort of testament to Huntington in terms of the 'pursue competitive .500' approach, but .500 teams have a pretty obvious and clear ceiling most years. I don't think in today's MLB that a straightforward path exists in terms of emulating successful tank and rebuild teams – and even if there were, the fact that the teams who did so have huge financial resources and are willing to spend them is always downplayed.

I think the strategy going forward has to prioritize sorting out whether any impact players exist who can be built around. Reynolds, Musgrove, and Keller are the closest I see to that in the current group. We need some others to rise into that group, and then we need a strategy that prioritizes a local ability to outclass the divisional opponents over the next several years.
 

ImporterExporter

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I'd be playing young guys as much as possible.

One, this is a throw away year. We're not winning. I don't even think the staff believes that. They are professionals. Not terot card readers. And two, if you aren't seriously considering "tanking" for Kumar Rocker, you're not a very good GM/exec. Especially when you don't have a team that can actually win anything meaningful right now.

Tucker should be playing consistently. Let's see what he can/can't do with consistent AB's.

Hayes should be up for the back half of the season and be playing almost every day. I've already said. His glove alone makes him a + WAR player. Already has a full year of AAA under his belt. Let him play.

Hell, I'd even go further and give Gonzales a few AB's late in the year. Cup o coffee. Not going to impact service time and it's not like he's actually getting real AB's this year anyway.

Trade Bell, Frazier, Moran, etc. Move them this winter if the value is trash this summer.
 

DJ Spinoza

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I think Hayes should basically be in the lineup as soon as he's gotten enough work in at the training site to get up to speed. We're basically going to pass over the service time threshold soon. But yeah, agreed on young players, though I don't see Gonzales fitting.

Some players might have a small amount of value this year if a team could use depth or has a specific need. I don't really expect a big return on almost anyone, and the lack of a minors season + narrowed 60 man rosters will make things even more challenging. I suspect the only real viable candidate will be Kela, assuming he gets healthy and plays well. Maybe if another RP is having some success, a team will be willing to pay something decent.

Otherwise, I think at a certain point you just have to identify who your pieces to build around are and clear out space for the next wave of young players. The pandemic throws this into further chaos, but at the end of the day the season is definitely just one long experiment, so that's probably worth keeping in mind instead of my attempt to try and narrow down something on specific players. I would guess that playing time will continue to rotate around a good bit.
 

DanielPlainview

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Worrying about getting value back for bench guys like Heredia, Dyson, or Gonzales seems like a very Coonley-Huntington-Hurdle era mindset, one I hope has been abandoned by the new leadership (along with holding players down in AAA to squeeze out max service time or because they might bump a veteran).

I'm optimistic about Osuna. I don't see issues with him being exposed with more playing time, though he has slumps and skids like anyone else - he's not a star-level talent but I think he can bring a top notch glove and above average hitting. Last season, his BA improved to .264 (from .231 the previous two seasons) with an above average SLG of .455 and an average OPS of .766. I think he was able to improve so much because of improved discipline at the plate, evidenced his BB% improvement (from 3% to 6%) and (albeit small) K% decline (20% to 18%). If he doesn't continue to improve at all, he's a 50-60 XBH type with a full season in a starting role. But I think he can (and will) continue to improve given the opportunity.

Most importantly for me is his defense at 1B. It is very good, and he should be playing there most nights with Polanco back in the lineup. Bell does nothing better defensively, and I have to think him continuing to be played has more to do with maintaining player value than anything to do with winning or losing, unfortunately.
 

Empoleon8771

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I'm fine with baseball not restricting what players do in their free time, but if you're going to do that, you have to take necessary precautions to prevent the disease from spreading among the team. Baseball can't happen with no off-field requirements and no mask or social distance requirements during games. It just can't. You can pick one or the other, but you can't do both.
 

OnMyOwn

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I dunno man, we can’t hide forever. I wear a mask and wash my hands all the time, but I still gotta go to work and provide for my family, go shopping, etc. These guys need to protect themselves or just risk getting it and getting over it like any other illnesses.

we don’t know if the people who are testing positive even care or took proper precautions to prevent catching it.
 

DanielPlainview

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I dunno man, we can’t hide forever. I wear a mask and wash my hands all the time, but I still gotta go to work and provide for my family, go shopping, etc. These guys need to protect themselves or just risk getting it and getting over it like any other illnesses.

we don’t know if the people who are testing positive even care or took proper precautions to prevent catching it.

This mindset is looked down upon in this day and age but it is probably the one that makes the most sense for the demographic we’re talking about. Healthy young people are not threatened by Covid. If a player or coach has a pre-existing condition, they should be permitted to take a medical leave for the season.
 

DJ Spinoza

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I am aware that we are not really supposed to discuss politics in this thread or elsewhere, but just in case my view got muddled by being too succinct: by "we don't have the political will," I mean we don't have the leadership on either side of the ridiculously brain worm ridden aisle to push for an actual lockdown, distribute resources, and do serious track, trace, and isolate protocols in the way that every halfway serious developed nation on earth has actually attacked the pandemic.

I don't blame people for having to come to terms with the realities they are facing as an individual and doing the best they can, not least because we are ideologically conditioned in that way from day 1 in our society, and in any case the ship sailed pretty decisively on doing a real lockdown when we instead did a half-assed, ill-planned one. It is hard to come to any other conclusion other than that we are completely screwed until the event of a vaccine and that many thousands more preventable deaths will continue to occur thanks to this absence of political will and leadership.

I can't say with any sincerity that I think professional sports should be happening. As much as I personally appreciate the distraction, it seems apparent that it's not even going to work in MLB's case – maybe it will continue doing so for the NBA and NHL, we'll see. I have trouble taking any of it seriously at all, something maybe accelerated by the fact that the team I root for has a collection of mediocrities which might well put together a hot streak and be leading the division in 10 days or more likely, will continue to muddle and drop to 2-3 games back of everyone in 5th place over the same time period. It all feels very pointless, in more ways than one.

Take these or leave them, I am pretty well aware that this kind of talk is not encouraged for several more or less straightforward and harmless reasons, so I throw this as my own, disconnected yell into the void, not with the intent of calling out anybody specifically or proposing to start a debate. I will follow this up with a return to meaningless baseball posting and take no offense if it is inevitably deleted.
 

DJ Spinoza

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In the event that we last long enough to get to the trade deadline, this might be one more notch towards getting Frazier or Andujar for Kela. We can only dream...

It would be good to get an update on Kela soon. Speaking of beanballing, I did see Kela posting "softer than baby shit" on a Bregman instagram post, and also seem to remember him interacting with people and saying that he was coming back soon, but there's been no official reporting one way or another that I've seen.
 
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