OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Sell the Team

[Winger for Hire]

The thing I hate about all this is that it's framing me in a lot of discussions I'm having as a Pirates hater and not appreciating where the team has come from (The Dark Years). Every time I discuss my beefs with the team (and Hurdle, a lot about Hurdle) I also get this fun fact tossed in my face, "Only four teams have won more games than the Pirates over the last five years." And, yes, the Hurdle/Huntington combo has brought this organization back from the brink and the depths of hell, but the longer you stand back and admire what happened, the easier it is to miss what's coming.

The team, as constructed now and how they've gone about the last two seasons/off-seasons leaves a lot to be questioned... Is Hurdle going to lean on vets all the time, sometimes to the detriment of prospects? Has Huntington reached the limit of what he can do on a budget? Are there anymore "loopholes" for Neal and his team of stat guys to find? Is the team set to benefit from the offensive era the league is entering? Is the team really ready to challenge, in 2019 and beyond, with a core of Taillon, Bell, Rivero, Marte, and Polanco? Will Hurdle ever really learn how to manage a bullpen? And these are just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's other legit questions I'm missing (Why can't this regime develop any MLB power hitters?).

I'm fully grateful that GMNH and Hurdle have put Pittsburgh back on the baseball map for more than just a beautiful ballpark, but nostalgia gets you burned in this business.

 

[Shockmaster]

Yup, we've never heard that one before.

 

[wheelz87]

It's like the Shero/Bylsma Pens with the young kids. These kids need experience before they're ready!!

 

[Beauner]

Let me point out that the Indians, who had MLB's 3rd worst attendance last year, promptly signed Encarnacion for 3 years $20 million

 

[Winger for Hire]

Pirates had 4 years of rising attendance, include at least one record year, and the next year the payroll didn't budget and then dropped.

The city/fan has shown, even after 20+ years of being doormat of the entire sporting world, put a team on the field that is going to compete and the butts will be there. The onus is on the team. We've heard this song and dance before.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I agree with the general sentiment, although to be honest I am somewhat relieved that we'll at least still have Huntington's middling approach around. It could be a significant amount worse, and I'm genuinely not sure how qualitatively different things could be with a different approach, for the better anyways. We can't say for sure, but things end up pretty different this year if we had Marte all year, and Kang, etc etc.

There are reasons for both strong pessimism and strong optimism, and I'm not trying to just sing a both sides game. We have elements of a pretty strong core, some borderline pieces we need luck with, and some serious question marks which aren't likely to be resolved through the system or in free agency, even if we were to spend significant money somewhere. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that this is what will always be the case, and with Huntington I am confident that the base will be there with the system and certain minor tweaks. Beyond that, unequivocally, he has failed and has to do better, and there aren't a lot of strong reasons to believe he can.

 

[Shockmaster]

I agree with the general sentiment, although to be honest I am somewhat relieved that we'll at least still have Huntington's middling approach around. It could be a significant amount worse, and I'm genuinely not sure how qualitatively different things could be with a different approach, for the better anyways. We can't say for sure, but things end up pretty different this year if we had Marte all year, and Kang, etc etc.

There are reasons for both strong pessimism and strong optimism, and I'm not trying to just sing a both sides game. We have elements of a pretty strong core, some borderline pieces we need luck with, and some serious question marks which aren't likely to be resolved through the system or in free agency, even if we were to spend significant money somewhere. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that this is what will always be the case, and with Huntington I am confident that the base will be there with the system and certain minor tweaks. Beyond that, unequivocally, he has failed and has to do better, and there aren't a lot of strong reasons to believe he can.

There's not a lot of reason to believe in the organization until they get a new owner.

 

[Harv]

Bad Bucco Baserunning.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

There's not a lot of reason to believe in the organization until they get a new owner.

Simultaneously a true and irrelevant claim. The owner is a major stumbling block to winning with how MLB is currently set up. I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks otherwise. If that's where it starts and ends for you, I suggest not following the sport.


Nice to see Rivero come in and dominate. Also I'm glad we're now able to stack up what would have been essential wins if we didn't come apart at the seams. The Brewers aren't even taking advantage of playing the Reds to grab a game.

 

[Penguins23]

Getting really sick of this complaining about attendance stuff from ownership. As mentioned previously, the payroll did not budge after record seasons so it's obviously BS. If you build it, they will come.

 

[Shwag33]

Simultaneously a true and irrelevant claim. The owner is a major stumbling block to winning with how MLB is currently set up. I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks otherwise. If that's where it starts and ends for you, I suggest not following the sport.


Nice to see Rivero come in and dominate. Also I'm glad we're now able to stack up what would have been essential wins if we didn't come apart at the seams. The Brewers aren't even taking advantage of playing the Reds to grab a game.

I don't watch and actively root against the pirates in the standings. I consider myself a true pirates fan because if everyone did what I did we might have a chance of nutting losing enough money and selling the team.

I know its a pipe dream, but supporting them certainly didn't/isn't working.

 

[Winger for Hire]

It's hard to ignore that this current 4 game win streak has come with Stewart and Jaso starting a combined ZERO games and actually playing 3 legit outfielders. Imagine if they did this all year. They might be pretty close to the division right now.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Im just glad they are finally playing the kids at this point.

Luplow looks like a legit MLB player.

Hopefully Moroff can hit merely average because his defense has been elite at 2b to this point. Its a very Very VERY small sample size but he is sporting 4 DRS and 37.1 UZR 150 in 129 innings

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I don't watch and actively root against the pirates in the standings. I consider myself a true pirates fan because if everyone did what I did we might have a chance of nutting losing enough money and selling the team.

I know its a pipe dream, but supporting them certainly didn't/isn't working.

I would suggest using the free time you have in not following the Pirates to read up on causality.

 

[Winger for Hire]

The problem with the whole boycotting thing is that, I'm assuming the Pirates are still getting the revenue sharing check and Nutting will just slash payroll to the point where it was in the mid/late Dark Years when they didn't have to sell a single ticket, concession, piece of merch, etc. to cover payroll.

I can't see the team being sold anytime in the near future. There's easy money for Bob to bring in.

 

[Evsidney Malkinsby]

I'm not a 100% against NH (not because we couldn't do better but because I don't trust the team to do better) but agree that Clint is rough at this stage.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

I just don't understand the organization on a fundamental level at this point. Two terrible seasons in a row? Here's a 4 year extension for the manager.

Perhaps Hurdle wanted to play the vets until he had job security because it is easier to defend the decision to play a proven major league talent. I hope that is the case because the alternative is that Hurdle is just a dolt.

I was talking to my dad a few weeks ago and he commented that if the Bucs had selected Mike Trout he would be on our bench at this point and Hurdle would keep saying he needs to find Trout more playing time but he is worried that the young man might get exposed if he plays too much.

 

[pistolpete11]

Yup, we've never heard that one before.

Yeah, they can **** right off with that ********.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Cards traded for Nicasio.

He's not postseason eligible, but can boost them in the regular season. So Neal's plan has backfired spectacularly... especially since Phillie was able to get the Cards' #19 prospect in the deal.

The Pirates have nothing but their wieners in their hands to show for this whole shameful event. At least the 7 Springs ski slopes can get a $600k ski lift now.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

At absolute best this is a ****ing embarrassment league-wide that poured gasoline over an already infuriated fan base, all over a billionaire saving $600k.

It's almost impressive how horribly that whole thing was thought out. The $600k alone would be worth it to suck it up just in the way it makes the franchise look to players...I guarantee it's going to be significantly harder for us to sign middle relievers this off-season (at least) given a useful reliever being tossed on waivers to save money and prevent a rival team from being able to put him on their playoff roster.

 

[Winger for Hire]

I wish I could say I can't wait for this year to be over, but the off-season isn't going to bring much relief...

 

[DJ Spinoza]

If we were just a hair or two closer to the mix, I'd fully expect us to now go on an unprecedented winning streak and meteorically rise to within mere outs of winning the division, only to have us blow a save because we don't have an eighth inning guy and Rivero is trying for a three inning save, or Benoit is out there, or something similar. But we have not even that final twist of the knife to look forward to--all we have are meaningless wins against a Cubs team that can't really be caught by anybody.