OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Good Vibes Only

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DJ Spinoza

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Another HR for Cruz tonight, and he crushed one to the warning track in his first AB that the LF made a nice play to snag. Nice to see him dialing in – Altoona has a ton of power between him, Castro, Martin, Mitchell, and Smith-Njigba.

Mitchell crushed his first HR of the season tonight, too. Really nice swing from the left side. If either him or Smith-Njigba hits, even as a platoon type guy, that would be nice. Seems like no matter what we do, we can't get consistent power in the big league lineup.

 

DJ Spinoza

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One thing I've been trying to rack my brain about a little bit is whether there might be an opportunity to use trade chips to take a run at a reclamation project SP of sorts who could stick around for several years. In particular, this is a direction I could see an Anderson trade taking, but I'm wary of thinking Anderson will really bring back too much. It's not a perfect comparison but Anderson reminds me of the situation with Happ, where he's been sought after and the investment wasn't too huge, but enough that the Pirates didn't want to "risk" it. We're not really in a position to think about re-signing him, but the SP depth figures to think out some against next year.

The most obvious person to me is Canning, but he pitches well enough at times and I highly doubt the Angels will move anyone competent from their ML roster. Maybe if he really struggled for several weeks or something, but it's hard to see.

I don't have a ton of other names, but I think that kind of target might be the most ideal for us. The other is to do what Huntington managed to do with great effect and scout backfields for more really young guys, because they won't need to be on the 40-man in any hurry. Cherington has long done well in the international market, so maybe he and Sanders have some guys they can target there, from more win-now anxious teams like the Angels, or even the Jays.

It'll be a tricky balance, as we have some chips to deal, but nothing that will require an overwhelming offer. Pitching is keeping us afloat right now, but I think it will end up being an area of concern. The other obvious thing to take a crack at would be a power bat. If we can get the younger talent, that's probably more strategic, but strange as it is to say, I think we should be looking at how to improve the 2022 team as well. The division still seems wide open with the Cubs and Reds in permanent limbo and the other two not exactly running away with anything.
 

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[MOD]

I have to read drivel on Polanco and Keller and these prospects nobody has actually watched, certainly less than me. And I'm the problem? Sick of seeing people read blogs and blurb from scouts and experts and then parrot whatever the talking points are and being given a pat on the back for spreading incredible information. Flip flopping on draft prospects because they A, have no patience, and B, have no idea what they're talking about in the first place, relying on sub content to shape some sort of secondary narrative?

How's Glasnow doing these days? Or Baz? Oh, yeah, that was a brilliant trade. Yet people loved it then and still downplay how atrocious it was. And you still have people on here denying his quick development into a true ace. How many years did I say his stuff was elite? Long before he ever got to Pittsbugh. Why? Because I actually watched the kid pitch in the minors. Live.

As I said before, you had blokes in these very threads talking about Polanco having an 800+ OPS years. AND getting praised for that kind of contribution to these threads? Like I said. I'll eat a f***ing shoe if that man gets even remotely close to those figures. How any human can watch him play baseball and feel anything but disdain is beyond me.

You all didn't listen on Josh Bell. Just another in the long line of things I predicted coming to pass. And why? Because frankly, after watching and reading these threads, I know the game better than anyone here. It's hard watching so many takes be put down around here only to come out looking like a big fat wrong.

How many predicted we'd be picking 1st this year? I did. Pretty sure most scoffed at that notion.

Still think we don't have a shot at #1 again next year? Keep betting that way. We're picking top 3 easily. This team blows and it'll get worse when we trade vets.

[MOD]
 
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WheresRamziAbid

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I have to read drivel on Polanco and Keller and these prospects nobody has actually watched, certainly less than me. And I'm the problem? Sick of seeing people read blogs and blurb from scouts and experts and then parrot whatever the talking points are and being given a pat on the back for spreading incredible information. Flip flopping on draft prospects because they A, have no patience, and B, have no idea what they're talking about in the first place, relying on sub content to shape some sort of secondary narrative?

How's Glasnow doing these days? Or Baz? Oh, yeah, that was a brilliant trade. Yet people loved it then and still downplay how atrocious it was. And you still have people on here denying his quick development into a true ace. How many years did I say his stuff was elite? Long before he ever got to Pittsbugh. Why? Because I actually watched the kid pitch in the minors. Live.

As I said before, you had blokes in these very threads talking about Polanco having an 800+ OPS years. AND getting praised for that kind of contribution to these threads? Like I said. I'll eat a f***ing shoe if that man gets even remotely close to those figures. How any human can watch him play baseball and feel anything but disdain is beyond me.

You all didn't listen on Josh Bell. Just another in the long line of things I predicted coming to pass. And why? Because frankly, after watching and reading these threads, I know the game better than anyone here. It's hard watching so many takes be put down around here only to come out looking like a big fat wrong.

How many predicted we'd be picking 1st this year? I did. Pretty sure most scoffed at that notion.

Still think we don't have a shot at #1 again next year? Keep betting that way. We're picking top 3 easily. This team blows and it'll get worse when we trade vets.

[MOD]

lets take this one point at a time.

1. I couldnt care less how many times you think you have been right. Id trust one sentence from anonymous Internet scouts before id listen to a guy that saw a couple games in Altoona and cherrypicks instances when he is right.

2. NOBODY has ever argued Glasnows stuff wasnt elite. Not once in human history. I dont understand why you believe thats some sort of feather in your cap.

3. Polancos OPS was .839 in 2018. That is coincidently was the last time he had more thaN 175 ABs due to injury/short seasons. I dont understand why you think thats a win for you but dont let facts get in the way.

Now im not saying hes getting back to that level post injuries and natural effects of aging. But the narrative that hes just not good and never has been isnt accurate. Its just you trying to puff your chest and pretend you were smarter than the room.

4. Again on Josh Bell creating a false narrative. He has a career wRC+ of 110. The only time he has been below 108 was last season when he had a grand total of 225 PAs.

But if you need to feed your ego and take a victory lap because he had a bad 90 ABs this year go for it. It doesnt make you any less wrong but clearly the grand puba of baseball need a victory so take it while you can.

Facts > Opinion
 

xlm34

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Man if you just need people to pat you on the back and tell you how smart you are, maybe a fan message board isn’t the right place to be.

I personally enjoy reading updates about prospects even if they are blurbs from scouts. I don’t do all the research on my own so it’s nice to have it all aggregated in one spot.
 
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DJ Spinoza

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Looks like Keith Law is doubling down on Henry Davis. Now has him ranked #1, then Lawlar and Mayer, and then Rocker and Leiter at 4 and 5. Not really sure I see it with Davis at 1.1, and catcher in the first round generally seems to backfire. I'm still firmly on Frelick or Watson if we go a surprising route with the pick, but at this point it seems better to let the dust settle over the next 3-4 weeks at least, and then re-assess during the CWS.
 

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Watching Gerrit Cole pitch is a treat.

It really is a shame how we managed to waste him and Glasnow. Can you imagine if we had the current version of those 2 (yeah, financials aside)?

Really goes to show you how inept the last regime was and the fact they were kept around so long only confirms that Nutting had/has zero intention of fielding a competent franchise. That's the biggest worry I have and likely anyone else for that matter. If the owner doesn't want you to win, you aren't going to win.

I just hope that experience changed something fundamentally with Nutting. Even if just a little bit.

Really hope we see Hayes at some point as well. This season has largely been ruined by his shit luck, getting a serious wrist injury in game #2. Him being out this long only makes me cringe at what they're hiding.
 

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lets take this one point at a time.

1. I couldnt care less how many times you think you have been right. Id trust one sentence from anonymous Internet scouts before id listen to a guy that saw a couple games in Altoona and cherrypicks instances when he is right.

2. NOBODY has ever argued Glasnows stuff wasnt elite. Not once in human history. I dont understand why you believe thats some sort of feather in your cap.

3. Polancos OPS was .839 in 2018. That is coincidently was the last time he had more thaN 175 ABs due to injury/short seasons. I dont understand why you think thats a win for you but dont let facts get in the way.

Now im not saying hes getting back to that level post injuries and natural effects of aging. But the narrative that hes just not good and never has been isnt accurate. Its just you trying to puff your chest and pretend you were smarter than the room.

4. Again on Josh Bell creating a false narrative. He has a career wRC+ of 110. The only time he has been below 108 was last season when he had a grand total of 225 PAs.

But if you need to feed your ego and take a victory lap because he had a bad 90 ABs this year go for it. It doesnt make you any less wrong but clearly the grand puba of baseball need a victory so take it while you can.

Facts > Opinion

1. Cherry picks? Feel free to search my posts from the last few years. I'm not infallible, but I certainly don't make some of the absurd claims that others do. Do you know how old it gets reading the wrong take after the wrong take, being laughed at (Josh Bell for example)? And if you trust some scout, even verified, on the internet, over someone who actually sees some of these kids play (do you think Keith Law is going to Altoona 6, 7, 8 times a year? Ditto for Harrisburg. Ditto for Reading) I watch the game. I played the game at the collegiate level. I know what I'm talking about. Simply because I'm firm and aggressive in my responses doesn't change the fact I'm right more than I'm not. Just because people can post long winded takes ad nauseam doesn't make them valid.

2. Give me a break. I've seen the most regular person on here scoff at the idea that Glasnow isn't an ace. Someone who probably never watched the man pitch prior to being completely corrupted by Searage and company. I've said it forever. Glasnow had the best raw stuff of any Bucs prospect I've seen (including Cole). It just took him getting to a legitimate coaching staff to realize his potential. I also said Keller, for years, was nothing more than a middle of the rotation starter and even I was overselling him on that ground. Keller has no mound presence, pitches with zero confidence and can't locate pitches. It's so obvious he's not a SP. Certainly not here. Maybe he'll find it as others have had once he gets out of here. But I doubt it.

3. Another Polanco apologist. Wow, bringing up a season 3 years ago? This is so absurd I won't even bother responding more than a passing glance. The guy has been a bum, below replacement level player since 2018 closed. You can make whatever excuses you want but he's a -2 offensive player over the last 3 years. He's been a negative value player defensively every year of his career, minus one. He's awful on the bases. His OPS over the course of his career has been over .800 ONCE, and despite the mounting evidence the last few years, people STILL predict he's going to post career best numbers? He has no pitch recognition ability. His baseball IQ is among the worst I've ever seen in a Pittsburgh uniform and that's saying something. Go ahead and trust those anonymous scouts bud just like people on this forum parroted the talking points of Pittsburgh writers about Polanco having Barry Bonds potential. Complete absurdity comparing Polanco, even pre-MLB, to one of the greatest to ever lace them up (pre steroids).

4. False narrative? LOL. Outside a 2.5 month stretch Josh Bell is yet another overrated, inept Pittsburgh writers driven "star". From the 2nd half of 2019 onward Bell is not an MLB regular. The numbers back this up. And the eye test does as well. This year he's completely cementing these FACTS.

But hey, I'm not always PC. I am strong in my opinions. If you take that as feeding an ego or just being an asshole, so be it. Keep hitting that report button fellas. I'm used to it by now, even if there is nothing remotely close to legit infraction worthy content. It's the world we live in. Can't offend anyone even if there is nothing close to offensive in the first place.
 

WheresRamziAbid

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1. Cherry picks? Feel free to search my posts from the last few years. I'm not infallible, but I certainly don't make some of the absurd claims that others do. Do you know how old it gets reading the wrong take after the wrong take, being laughed at (Josh Bell for example)? And if you trust some scout, even verified, on the internet, over someone who actually sees some of these kids play (do you think Keith Law is going to Altoona 6, 7, 8 times a year? Ditto for Harrisburg. Ditto for Reading) I watch the game. I played the game at the collegiate level. I know what I'm talking about. Simply because I'm firm and aggressive in my responses doesn't change the fact I'm right more than I'm not. Just because people can post long winded takes ad nauseam doesn't make them valid.

2. Give me a break. I've seen the most regular person on here scoff at the idea that Glasnow isn't an ace. Someone who probably never watched the man pitch prior to being completely corrupted by Searage and company. I've said it forever. Glasnow had the best raw stuff of any Bucs prospect I've seen (including Cole). It just took him getting to a legitimate coaching staff to realize his potential. I also said Keller, for years, was nothing more than a middle of the rotation starter and even I was overselling him on that ground. Keller has no mound presence, pitches with zero confidence and can't locate pitches. It's so obvious he's not a SP. Certainly not here. Maybe he'll find it as others have had once he gets out of here. But I doubt it.

3. Another Polanco apologist. Wow, bringing up a season 3 years ago? This is so absurd I won't even bother responding more than a passing glance. The guy has been a bum, below replacement level player since 2018 closed. You can make whatever excuses you want but he's a -2 offensive player over the last 3 years. He's been a negative value player defensively every year of his career, minus one. He's awful on the bases. His OPS over the course of his career has been over .800 ONCE, and despite the mounting evidence the last few years, people STILL predict he's going to post career best numbers? He has no pitch recognition ability. His baseball IQ is among the worst I've ever seen in a Pittsburgh uniform and that's saying something. Go ahead and trust those anonymous scouts bud just like people on this forum parroted the talking points of Pittsburgh writers about Polanco having Barry Bonds potential. Complete absurdity comparing Polanco, even pre-MLB, to one of the greatest to ever lace them up (pre steroids).

4. False narrative? LOL. Outside a 2.5 month stretch Josh Bell is yet another overrated, inept Pittsburgh writers driven "star". From the 2nd half of 2019 onward Bell is not an MLB regular. The numbers back this up. And the eye test does as well. This year he's completely cementing these FACTS.

But hey, I'm not always PC. I am strong in my opinions. If you take that as feeding an ego or just being an asshole, so be it. Keep hitting that report button fellas. I'm used to it by now, even if there is nothing remotely close to legit infraction worthy content. It's the world we live in. Can't offend anyone even if there is nothing close to offensive in the first place.

I guess its easy being “right” when you invent things to argue against.

1. Couldnt care less about your eye test “bonafides”. I dont trust your opinion because you are either usually
a. Loud wrong or
b. Need to do so many gymnastics to pigeon hole you argument. Your like the guy that argues against global warming because its cold in January.

2. Inventing arguments much. Go find an instance that says Glsnow doesnt have great stuff. I’ll wait.

As far as Keller show one person that says hes an ace. I’ll wait.

3. Polanco apologist? Seriously can you even read? You were arguing he cant have an .800 OPS when he literally did it in his last healthy year. I also said it unlikely (But in a possible range of outcomes) he get back to that point for a variety of reasons but inventing an alternate reality where he supposedly didnt do exactly what you said he cant do is pure fiction.

4. Josh bell has been an above average hitter in 4 of his 5 seasons. Period. Fact.

You create an opinion and you wait for the First/smallest sample that in any way supports it and claim how smart you are.

Josh Bell sucks...

112 wRC+ wrong
108 wRC+ Wrong
111 wRC+ Wrong
135 wRC+ Wrong

77 wRC+ over 195 ABs

SEE HOW SMART I AM!!!!!
 

DJ Spinoza

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The one sort of recently established cliche about winning in MLB that I am pretty convinced by is the idea of a talent window, and that's why I'm stubbornly sticking with Leiter and Rocker as my 1-2 hopes, since they would probably map pretty well with Contreras, Cruz, and maybe another AA guy like Mitchell or Smith-Njigba (with both being longer shots, which is also true of Cruz and to an extent Contreras) to arrive as the wave just behind Yajure and Swaggerty. It could give you a good bridge to the lower minors with a guy like Gonzales being an x-factor in terms of rising more quickly (Vaughn went directly from high-A into MLB, though obviously the pandemic played a role in that).

I think the thing we'll need is a little bit of luck, in terms of both enough of the prospects hitting and avoiding injuries. Beyond that, I don't really think we'll follow the model of teams like the Astros and Cubs who accomplished this full tear down + rebuild, because they did it in the end by virtue of flexing financial muscle that we either don't have or won't use in any case. And I don't think the Rays model is applicable for a few reasons, but at the very least because they probably outclass the Dodgers in terms of development and that's something easier said than done. I also don't know if their roster construction is copiable, and think that it may have done them in when they had a chance, but that's a separate argument.

But back to the draft, while I do think you simply take who you think can be the best player, I also think if you aren't fully committed to someone, then other factors should enter into the picture. And with us, it's not simply something like need, but also doing the best you can to build with Hayes in mind, which means players who can arrive more quickly. And I think it should mean Leiter or Rocker, unless for some reason your scouts are really out on both of them. In that case, it could mean prep there, and overslot college fallers later on, but that complicates things.

If we're out on the pitchers and/or just going to hunt star upside, then we have to be convinced that the player will get there. Like I said, I have no way to evaluate the prep guys beyond simply reading about them, but why I like Watson the most is age + swing + bat speed.

In terms of looking forward, we do need to hunt for star talent, but I think important steps that are going to be needed to hit the window, whether it's fully surrounding Hayes or catching him a bit later and then partially being refueled by a Hayes trade, are definitely these ones: 1) develop supplementary pieces, both above average impact types (I'd put Swaggerty here, and early returns do seem to indicate we're unlocking his tools with the swing change) and solid, cheap depth to round out the roster and have some backups ready for inevitable injuries; and 2) do #1 and also hit on some impact talent via international acquisitions. Here is where I am more optimistic with BC's track record, and I hope this is the kind of thing we can do with the ok trade pieces we will have this year.
 

bigdaddyk88

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Bell will be out of the league soon he isn’t hitting at all in Washington which is crazy cause they have Soto and turner before him. Moran is out pacing him
Gregory the best I can say is he is off the books this season
Glasnow is interesting to watch this year cause the teams that lay of his breaking ball are teeing off his fastball. This year he is the ace of Tampa and they never let him go above 110 in pitch count.
 

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As far as the draft goes, I would rank the following for 1.1

1. Rocker (Better command than Leiter, 3 pitch mix now, and he's got a track record of being a horse)
2. Leiter (don't trust him to hold up long term but he's still #2 based on potential and need for us)
3. Davis (receiving skills improving and he throws out a ton of runners with a 70 arm + AS caliber bat + a major need for us)
4. Lawler (don't know much about him other than he's talked about as a potential 5 tool kid)
5. Meyer (see Lawler though Meyer is more raw at this stage it seems)

Anyone else is a major reach at 1. I absolutely do not subscribe to taking some distant prospect in an attempt to save money. Not at 1.1.

Rather not take a HS player here, waiting 3 or more years for them to potentially impact at the MLB level. We've got some pieces to to work with already (Hayes, Reynolds) and others on the horizon (Cruz, Swaggerty, Gonzo, Peguero, etc). I like the potential bats for this franchise. We have a long term 3B. I think we have a long term SS in Peguero. Ditto for 2B with Gonzo. We desperately need SP. Or a C. Those are the glaring holes for Pittsburgh. Unless you are convinced Lawler or Meyer are the next Turner or Seager or someone on that level I can't back taking them over the Vandy pitchers or Davis.

And if you want to go the HS bat route, next year definitely looks to be the year to do it, especially if you're picking top 3/5.
 

WheresRamziAbid

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Lawler having hit tool questions eliminates him for me. He has star upside but a ton of risk.

Davis is a safe pick, enough bat to comfortably be valuable at C.

in a notmal year i would consider both but not with potential aces on the board.

Rocker has the size and the slider, fastball has velo but gets hit, is the cutter a true 3rd pitch? Could Cole with the risk of being someone like Edwin Jackson.

Leiter has the FB that dominates at the top of the zone but has no true hammer out pitch and is smaller (though has pretty clean mechanics from what ive read). He will have to have plus command if he wants to hit his ceiling (2020 Bauer) but could easily end up not being to put away MLb hitters and have a homer problem from relying on his FB up ( think bad Sonny Gray years).

Either way they go im ok with because i believe they are both MLB floors (aside from injuries of course) with ace upside. I can vacillate all day on which i would choose because they are both legitimately excellent prospects.
 

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Yeah, I really think it has to be the Vandy guys. Davis, MAYBE, if you think his defense will max out as above average. He's already got a cannon and rep throwing guys out which is a big bonus. If he can block and receive at an acceptable rate, it's hard not to like him as a long term MLB starter with AS upside (though that may be a bit much). Again, not ideal for 1.1 but we have such little depth in the way of C prospects right now. Adding a college C who could probably be starting for you in 2 years, if all goes well, is not a bad direction IMO.

Either way, you need a SP who profiles as a future #1. Maybe Contrares is the real deal. Maybe Preister will figure it out. Maybe someone else like Mlodzinski ends up as the guy. But overall, I'm not sold on our SP depth at all. I think we've got great infield depth, solid OF prospects (specially if you think Cruz ends up in RF). We always seem to develop bullpen arms pretty well. Just leaves you SP and C to really improve on.

If I'm Cherington I'm hammering SP again and probably looking at an upside C at 37 or 64.
 
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Fun Fact

Roansy Contreras

0.00 ERA
0.06 FIP
0.75 xFIP

Only two starts but thats unreal.

I'm thinking of driving up to Bimington this weekend just to ensure I can see him. He keeps pitching like this and he'll be in Indy within 4-6 weeks which is a bit too far to drive lol.

He impressed the he'll out of me in spring training even if it was only a few outings.
 

WheresRamziAbid

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I'm thinking of driving up to Bimington this weekend just to ensure I can see him. He keeps pitching like this and he'll be in Indy within 4-6 weeks which is a bit too far to drive lol.

He impressed the he'll out of me in spring training even if it was only a few outings.

Thats probably a good call.

Any resemblance to what hes done so far and he will be in Indy post haste.
 

DJ Spinoza

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The thing that worries me about taking a catcher so high (I'd say even in the first round, though if you are picking in the latter half, maybe the situation dictates it) is just that the attrition rate is off the charts, and so many of the first division regulars in MLB are late breakout guys. We definitely lack catching depth in the system but I don't think it's terribly hard to get a competent one. It does seem like Davis could have tools to either be an impact player or be ok if he moved to 1B or something, but I just find it difficult to believe that we wouldn't have someone above him on our list.

And unless you were sold on him still being an impact guy, I don't think you can pass on upside prep if the strategy is truly going to be underslot and invest later. I'm still firmly on the Vandy pitcher train and so don't love this strategy, but if we employ it, then I like Khalil Watson's electric talent + bat speed over the other guys. If he continues to perform in his HS season, that's my boom/bust pick, with a preference for Frelick as a college bat over Davis.

But still, I think you don't overthink it and choose between the two college aces. If Leiter re-establishes his form after a hiccup, he's got the foundation for continued growth, and Rocker's growth as a pitcher this season shouldn't be totally discounted even if he's still a fairly prototypical college power pitcher (I don't mean this as a knock on him). I agree that at the end of the day, the floor looks pretty good for both of them, which is important.

I don't hate the underslot/slight underslot idea on principle, but I think deploying it this year could be risky because there's a chance some big market teams go YOLO and violate the rules with the uncertainty of the next CBA looming. It's also just risky in general, because you can't exactly name which guy is going to fall to you, and though this draft is relatively stocked with talent, it shouldn't really be a difficult thing to get an impact player with 1.1 and then two or three more high upside players with your next picks.

Ultimately, it's just about seeing what everybody has going down the stretch. I don't think a few hiccups should be the subject of hyper-focus for the Vandy starters so long as they course correct in the remaining few starts and CWS. And I don't think you draft based on need, but I do think with other things being equal, you draft according to building a team around Hayes, and I think that's where the college pitchers are. And I also don't think you need the guy to absolutely be a top-5 or top-10 pitcher or something. If you get a true frontline anchor, that's the kind of impact that you need out of the pick.
 

DJ Spinoza

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This is pretty surprising. Craig is only mildly surprising because we don't have a 1B and I suppose are not going to just address it with duck tape until Moran is back, which is probably for the best, regardless of what you think of Craig. Might as well give him a run out there, it's the same principle as other guys we've shuffled through.

Yajure is much more surprising and to me indicates something is up, either a trade (less likely, but who knows) or injury. He's be on rotation turn for tomorrow and you would hope that he's not going to be called up as emergency bullpen depth or something. Could see Underwood going on the IL, but that wouldn't really affect the rotation directly. Suppose it could be any of the starters, or else it could also be that Crowe will pitch tonight and then end up in the bullpen tomorrow.

The latter option also obviously doesn't make a lot of sense (if that was it, no need to call up Yajure immediately). So I guess we'll have to see what shoes fall, since we need to see 1 40-man and 2 25-man moves before the game.

Edit: here's the move



Still unclear on why Yajure. I have to assume it's some kind of 6-man rotation. IMO it would be pretty stupid to have him coming out of the pen.
 
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The thing that worries me about taking a catcher so high (I'd say even in the first round, though if you are picking in the latter half, maybe the situation dictates it) is just that the attrition rate is off the charts, and so many of the first division regulars in MLB are late breakout guys. We definitely lack catching depth in the system but I don't think it's terribly hard to get a competent one. It does seem like Davis could have tools to either be an impact player or be ok if he moved to 1B or something, but I just find it difficult to believe that we wouldn't have someone above him on our list.

And unless you were sold on him still being an impact guy, I don't think you can pass on upside prep if the strategy is truly going to be underslot and invest later. I'm still firmly on the Vandy pitcher train and so don't love this strategy, but if we employ it, then I like Khalil Watson's electric talent + bat speed over the other guys. If he continues to perform in his HS season, that's my boom/bust pick, with a preference for Frelick as a college bat over Davis.

But still, I think you don't overthink it and choose between the two college aces. If Leiter re-establishes his form after a hiccup, he's got the foundation for continued growth, and Rocker's growth as a pitcher this season shouldn't be totally discounted even if he's still a fairly prototypical college power pitcher (I don't mean this as a knock on him). I agree that at the end of the day, the floor looks pretty good for both of them, which is important.

I don't hate the underslot/slight underslot idea on principle, but I think deploying it this year could be risky because there's a chance some big market teams go YOLO and violate the rules with the uncertainty of the next CBA looming. It's also just risky in general, because you can't exactly name which guy is going to fall to you, and though this draft is relatively stocked with talent, it shouldn't really be a difficult thing to get an impact player with 1.1 and then two or three more high upside players with your next picks.

Ultimately, it's just about seeing what everybody has going down the stretch. I don't think a few hiccups should be the subject of hyper-focus for the Vandy starters so long as they course correct in the remaining few starts and CWS. And I don't think you draft based on need, but I do think with other things being equal, you draft according to building a team around Hayes, and I think that's where the college pitchers are. And I also don't think you need the guy to absolutely be a top-5 or top-10 pitcher or something. If you get a true frontline anchor, that's the kind of impact that you need out of the pick.

Davis is a better hitter than Frelick (by a decent margin), at a more important position. I cannot see any scout or GM worth a damn that would advocate a guy like Frelick at 1.1. Or Watson, when he's certainly not even the best HS prospect coming out. Both are tiny players and would reek of a Mickey Moniak move, which turned out to be a disaster for Philly. Maybe one of them pans out as an impact MLB'er but how much money is worth saving to take clearly inferior talent w/ the first overall? I don't think anyone at the top of the board is going to demand over slot money as it is. While I'm higher on Rocker than probably 98% of people out there, I don't see him having enough hype from the think tanks to warrant leverage of more than slot value. Unless Leiter comes back with a vengeance, same thing, even if I see him playing hard ball more than anyone else. I don't think any of the HS players would make more than slot and most could probably be signed for under, but again, is there a HS player that you take over Rocker/Leiter? Meh.

I don't think you reach for a C but to continue to ignore the position in the draft is not going to help matters. Unless you're seeing talent on the international stage that you feel you can sign for a reasonable rate (remember we are the Pirates) you need to hammer it in the draft. We're not going to find or spend the money in FA to bring in an impact player there. Those types of C's rarely are available and if they are, command 100+ million, which we aren't paying. The problem with the international path, is you're generally talking 16/17 year olds. 5+ years away.

I don't know much about the C class this year. Seems like there are a few potential 1st round HS guys (I really like Joe Mack from the write ups and highlight videos, if he were to fall to 37 due to signability issues, as he's a pretty safe bet to have a mid/late 1st round grade) and another guy to keep an eye on is CJ Rodriguez out of Vandy. Wouldn't want to reach at 37 or 64, but get into round 3 or 4 and he's on the board? He's obviously familiar with Rocker/Leiter and I've been impressed with him the handful of times I've watched Vandy. He's got a really nice, simple approach at the dish. Great contact hitter and rarely strikes out. Average pop but seems like he's at least above average as a defender and knows how to call a game.
 

DJ Spinoza

Registered User
Aug 7, 2003
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If he doesn't go, you would figure that's a pretty definitive nail in the coffin for his 1.1 chances, but who knows. Could very well be gamesmanship by Vandy.

Tahnaj Thomas has got a pretty nice line going in Greensboro, with a bunch of Ks and whiffs. Hopefully there's video somewhere. Walks are still present, but following along and he's not really overly wild. It will be a big step to get him consistently locked in for 5+ innings in Greensboro, and then the next big hurdle will be Altoona.

And as I finish typing, we have him finish after 4 IP. Not a shocker, he is probably still on a pitch count and ramping up somewhat, with 3 IP last time. 4 IP, 2 H, 3 BB, 8 Ks, 0 R over 70 pitches, by my count 12 swinging strikes. No need to push it with him, but a strong start to the year now with I think 15 Ks over 7 innings. He threw 50 pitches last time, and had just one walk.
 
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