- Apr 20, 2016
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The nice thing as fans is that both are just getting better and better at it. Should keep us entertained for the next 10 years.
Race for the Rocket Richard 2021
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The nice thing as fans is that both are just getting better and better at it. Should keep us entertained for the next 10 years.
By multiple second place finishes do you mean 1.
He came in third last year behind co winners Ovechkin and Pastrnak and I believe tied for second one year.
I agree that McDavid is easily the better player. I think he’s also as good a goal scorer as well but he generally chooses to concentrate on playmaking while Matthews is the trigger man on his line. This year McDavid is shooting more instead of passing and predictably he’s in the race for the Rocket.
I would however agree that Matthews is the better pure shooter.
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leafsfan5
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Yeah but the point for it still stands, he's a top 3 goal scorer in hockey and the results have shown it. Since entering the league him and Ovechkin have similar gpg values (0.575 for Matthews vs 0.58 for Ovechkin) and most regard Ovi as the best scorer in the league. Just because McDavid has had one 30 game stretch where he's matching Matthews doesn't mean he's as good a goal scorer as him (even right now Matthews is pacing for 58 while McDavid is pacing for 49 over 82). It's the same argument as saying Matthews was as good as McDavid when he was on fire for 20 games to start the year, he needs to do this for a sustainable stretch before jumping to this conclusion. One guy has been doing it year in and year out producing results while the other hasn't to the same extent.
Hell, McDavid probably isn't even the best goal scorer on his team. Drai has put up solid goal scoring seasons and finished second in the rocket a couple years back. Last year he was 4th when the league suddenly shut down so who knows if he had a shot at catching up to 1 (probably not, but he was pacing for 50 again so that would've been back to back 50 goal seasons). To me Draisaitl has a stronger case than McDavid does at being as good a goal scorer as Matthews
The Moose is Loose
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It's getting really tight in the race. McDavid, Matthews, Draisaitl, Rantanen, Ovi all have a solid shot at it.
There are also some dark horses with Pacioretty, Debrincat, and Toffoli all being in striking distance, but I'd be really surprised if they won.
I think McDavid takes it, but it'll be a sprint to the end here.
There are also some dark horses with Pacioretty, Debrincat, and Toffoli all being in striking distance, but I'd be really surprised if they won.
I think McDavid takes it, but it'll be a sprint to the end here.
The Moose is Loose
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He has only finished 2nd once. And when he did that it was a tie for 2nd.
The Moose is Loose
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That is an absurd stat. His assist total would be 5th in the NHL in points, and he is neck and neck in the rocket race. 97 is dominating this year.
The Moose is Loose
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Over the past 4 years McDavid has 137 goals to Matthews' 140 (Draisaitl is at 137 as well). If you look at the last 3 seasons Draisaitl moves past Matthews in terms of goals, and Pasta inserts himself right there next to Matthews/McDavid. McDavid and Matthews are very much on the same level when looking at actual goals scored, and until Matthews can put together a full monster season, the only thing that will put Matthews ahead are "paced" out stats.
Yeah Price has played Matthews a lot more than McDavid due to their divisions so that's not really an unbiased opinion.
And multiple 2nd place finish is a flat out lie. He tied for 2nd in 2017, and placed 3rd in 2020. Those were his only high goal total finishes.
leafsfan5
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Picking the last 4 seasons is interesting, why not the last 5? Is it because it provides Matthews a 13 goal advantage even though he's played 35 fewer games??? That clearly paints a different picture in terms of goal scoring ability. You got rid of Matthews second most productive season while removing McDavid's least productive lol. Real "objective" analysis there.
Also, I mean Matthews HAS done that monster season hasn't he? The guy had 47 goals in 70 games last season until a pandemic shut the whole season down. You can't blame him for that, it was clear he was going to get 50+ just like Pasta/Ovechkin were (Drai is close although he was pacing for exactly 50 so it's not reasonable to state he would've hit 50 with a high degree of confidence). McDavid hasn't had a goal scoring season like Matthews did last year. And Auston is doing it again this year with 22 in 31, the highest production rate in the league.
Pace stats over a decent sample size are pretty valuables pieces of information, it's not like I'm pulling it out of a 35 game stretch here. When discussing goal scoring ability pace stats can come into play as we are looking at who is better at putting the puck in the net. Nonetheless, we can also look at actual results. Since Keefe has been coach and given Matthews ideal usage (similar TOI to McDavid) he has 55 goals in 78 games. That's a full season of results for you.
And the 2nd place thing was an honest mistake, I'll change it. And sure it's his "only" high total finishes, how many top 3 finishes does McDavid have again?
At the end of the day Matthews has two, maybe 3 peers when it comes to goal scoring. They are Ovechkin, Pastrnak and Draisaitl. This McDavid talk is ludicrous. He's the best player in the world but he's not in the best goal scorer conversation yet. Put some results up first before going against players with multiple top finishes and elite goal scoring seasons.
I don't at all reject the idea that others are very much in the running for rocket with a guy like Matthews, but fwiw, Matthews scores a closer clip to Ovechkin than McDavid. I know people don't like points per 60, so I'll leave those out, but I will say Matthews, over the past 4 years, has a pretty solid lead in goals per game while logging 2.5 mins less per game and almost a minute less per game on powerplay. I don't think it's unfair at all to say he's been the better goalscorer.
mrv52
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leafsfan5
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Who, Drai? I had him as my "maybe" and if I had to rank the 4 he'd probably be last. But, it's hard to argue with his production these past couple seasons. He finished 2nd a couple years ago, 4th last year and is tied for 3rd this year in goals. He also scored 50 goals 2 years ago and was pacing for 50 on the dot when the league shut down. He has a good case to be in that tier imo
One of these is not like the others.
TheGroceryStick
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Hes got those Gretzky-esque stats already. He's frigen unreal...
My body requires a best on best Olympics.
mrv52
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leafsfan5
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I mean sure but when picking the first tier goal scorers being in the top 3-4 every year gives you a case to be in there. He's also been a 50 goal scorer and could've potentially done it twice if it wasn't for COVID. Either way I put him at the bottom of the top tier or leading the second, not really a hill I'd die on
I agree.
Or who finishes tied for second. Until Matthews wins at least one Rocket he should not be mentioned in the same breath as Ovechkin.
There’s a good bunch of young goal scorers grouped close together imo including McDavid, Matthews, Pastrnak, and Draisaitl. I’d throw Rantanen in there too.
We’ll probably see the award spread out more once Ovechkin is no longer the best.
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didn't realize Mathews and those other dudes had 9 rocket richards.
quite a broad definition of "peer" going on there.
leafsfan5
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This isn't a career discussion, obviously Ovechkin stands alone there. This is for the best goal scorers in the game today.
A player like Matthews has scored almost the exact same goals per game as Ovechkin since he entered the league (0.576 to 0.58). Since Pastrnak exploded in goal scoring back in 18-19 his gpg is 0.625 while Ovechkin is 0.65. Since Draisaitl exploded in 18-19 his gpg is 0.59 compared to Ovi's 0.65 (a larger difference and corresponds to about 5 goals over the course of a season, if you want to put him in the top of the second tier I don't really have a problem with it). Like it or not these guys have been producing similar to him for a large sample size so they are his peers
Kunta Kinte
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He has definitely been. I don't think a lot of people are disputing that, they are just pointing out that the gap keeps closing every season it feels, and this season that gap is barely noticeable. It is worth noting that Crosby did this in his earlier seasons, where he closed the gap in goalscoring between him and OV and even snagged a Richard. He didn't maintain that goalscoring prowess, but it was mainly garbage goals around the net, where he was a wizard until he changed his style a bit, understandably so due to the concussions.
Well said, you have a lot of reasonable takes in this thread. I think I would put Drai in that top tier, but that is just me.
With about a 1/3 of the season remaining here is where things stand. Should be a great race to the finish!
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]
| Player | Goals | Games Played | Games Remaining |
| Auston Matthews | 25 | 35 | 18 |
| Connor McDavid | 22 | 38 | 18 |
| Miko Rantanen | 21 | 37 | 19 |
| Leon Draisaitl | 19 | 38 | 18 |
| Alex DeBrincat | 19 | 36 | 17 |
| Tyler Toffoli | 19 | 31 | 22 |
| Alex Ovechkin | 19 | 34 | 18 |
| Max Pacioretty | 18 | 34 | 20 |
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With tonight stats Ovi at 19 and Matthews with 25. Missing 10 games on McDavid.
613Leafer
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Leafs haven't had a Rocket Richard, Norris, Vezina, Hart, or Art Ross winner since before the last time we won the Stanley Cup.
So please finally get one for us Matthews!
So please finally get one for us Matthews!
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