Confirmed with Link: Quincey Re-Signed, 2yrs/$4.25 AAV

[InjuredChoker]

target: sign top 4 defenseman who is RD

end result: sign defenseman who isn't top, isn't RD and isn't better than what we have in GR.

rarely have i been so pissed at signing like i am now. cleary is probably the closest.

this signing made no sense on any level.

at least with cleary even though we all knew how it would turn out, we know babcock wanted his favorite player back and kenny caved. quincey? nada.

 

[Dotter]

target: sign top 4 defenseman who is RD

end result: sign defenseman who isn't top, isn't RD and isn't better than what we have in GR.

rarely have i been so pissed at signing like i am now. cleary is probably the closest.




ok, that's awesome

Not defending the KFQ signing, but who is better in Grand Rapids?

 

[InjuredChoker]

Not defending the KFQ signing, but who is better in Grand Rapids?

i'd take my chances on ouellet and/or marchenko.

even if they don't live up to the challenge, they gain valuable experience, will be more ready next year and we don't have to insert 3 rookie dman into the lineup in same year or lose them for little/nothing.

we already know what quincey brings. and that's not enough. he's not going to get better anymore.

his contract says that he's not going to get beaten by kids for roster spot.

 

[Dotter]

i'd take my chances on ouellet and/or marchenko.

even if they don't live up to the challenge, they gain valuable experience, will be more ready next year and we don't have to insert 3 rookie dman into the lineup in same year or lose them for little/nothing.

we already know what quincey brings. and that's not enough. he's not going to get better anymore.

his contract says that he's not going to get beaten by kids for roster spot.

I doubt either of those guys are better right now. But I do agree they both have a good chance of being better within two years. And no way the current top 6 stay healthy so ouellet and/or marchenko will each get the chance to play and prove their progress. If they do outplay KFQ, then trade him before deadline. His contract is short term, so a contender looking for depth on D would likely welcome his services. I'm not sure of his NTC/NMC status, though.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I doubt either of those guys are better right now. But I do agree they both have a good chance of being better within two years. And no way the current top 6 stay healthy so ouellet and/or marchenko will each get the chance to play and prove their progress. If they do outplay KFQ, then trade him before deadline. His contract is short term, so a contender looking for depth on D would likely welcome his services. I'm not sure of his NTC/NMC status, though.

i doubt holland would trade him. 'depth'. he hasn't traded roster player in 6 years.

there doesn't need to be NTC/NMC with his deal. the cap hit in his deal is already one.

teams are lot more worried and careful with cap space so it would take quite a big idiot to take KFQ at 4.2mil imo.

and i don't mind the cap hit that bad. it's the other things that i already mentioned that i have issues with. cap hit is just icing on the cake.

salo, tallinder, MDZ, morris, diaz.. about similar level players and might have accepted one year deal and one of them is RH and can QB the pp.

they were in on gilbert who signed for less than 3 mil for 2 years (and of course with habs) but kenny thought he could swing for someone else so they told him on july 1st just to sign with the habs.. which is odd as they seemed out on pretty much every player at that point.

gilbert would've been nice player to have one 2nd pairing with dekeyser imo.

 

[Dotter]

salo, tallinder, MDZ, morris, diaz.. about similar level players and might have accepted one year deal and one of them is RH and can QB the pp.

We don't know that and he might have made a pitch and like the others, just didn't want to play here. Who knows?

they were in on gilbert who signed for less than 3 mil for 2 years (and of course with habs) but kenny thought he could swing for someone else so they told him on july 1st just to sign with the habs.. which is odd as they seemed out on pretty much every player at that point.

I've been out of the loop yesterday but didn't see this reported. Was it it Khan or HSJ that leaked this?

 

[InjuredChoker]

We don't know that and he might have made a pitch and like the others, just didn't want to play here. Who knows?

it's possible but it's not like those players are hot commodity as they are all without contract.

I've been out of the loop yesterday but didn't see this reported. Was it it Khan or HSJ that leaked this?

can't recall, i'll try to find it.

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 1. july
Wings also spoke with Tom Gilbert, but he had to make decision on Montreal offer (2 years, $2.8 million per) and they told him don't wait.

https://twitter.com/AnsarKhanMLive/status/484117551073746944

 

[Dotter]

https://twitter.com/AnsarKhanMLive/status/484117551073746944

I don't know much about Tom Gibert, but sounds like this was happening when they were waiting on the Errorhof or Niskanen sweepstakes? If I remember right KH was waiting on Niskanen to get back about the 7 yr/$42 million offer?

Sounds like they were expecting to get one of the top righties and felt Gilbert wasn't a huge loss if they miss out. I mean he did only get a 2yr deal worth 2.8 avv, right? So I guess he isn't a game buster, either that or MTL got one heck of a steal.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I don't know much about Tom Gibert, but sounds like this was happening when they were waiting on the Errorhof or Niskanen sweepstakes? If I remember right KH was waiting on Niskanen to get back about the 7 yr/$42 million offer?

Sounds like they were expecting to get one of the top righties and felt Gilbert wasn't a huge loss if they miss out. I mean he did only get a 2yr deal worth 2.8 avv, right? So I guess he isn't a game buster, either that or MTL got one heck of a steal.

we were out on error early. that was even before FA started.

i don't know the exact timeline, i guess only kenny knows that. but the way it as reported, we were out on nisky fairly early too.

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 1. july
Also, Wings were told as late as this weekend they were on Niskanen's "short list" but informed early today they were out.

Helene St. James ‏@HeleneStJames 1. july
#RedWings offered D Matt Niskanen 7 years, $38.5 M but were told before free agency began Detroit not a destination for him.

boyle might have been one but i'd rather have gilbert for that deal than boyle for 3 years. 31 year old good 2nd pairing guy for 2 years at 3 mil >>> 38 year old 3rd pairing guy for 4.5 mil. and they also made 3 year offer for 38 year old guy that broke his leg twice last year.

so if they were waiting for someone, it was two 38 year olds for 3 yr deal. haha. so holland thing to do.

gilbert played well with campbell on top pairing for florida. as he didn't get destroyed there, he should play well on 2nd pairing for habs.

 

[Dotter]

Yeah, all we can really do is build a general timeline from tweets and speculate what's going on behind the scenes. I guess as bad as Babcock wanted a RH dman, and thought Gilbert was their guy, they would have signed him immediately. Maybe there is a part of his game they don't really like. I never really paid attention to him. Sounds like MTL got a steal-of-a-deal if he is as good as you say he is.

Scanned over his MTL signing thread and looks like he isn't too well liked, but got some mixed reviews. Some say he is overpaid @ 2.8 others say it is fair. I think that is a good price for a top 4. I'm sure he'd been better than KFQ, though KFQ did start turning around late last year and looked solid. Still took bonehead penalties.

Doubt either guys are game changers or the difference between playoffs/no playoffs.

 

[InjuredChoker]

well i hope he won't be steal, lol. but seems like habs are going to change their system a bit. getting rid of gorges who handles the puck like grenade and getting little mistake-prone but solid puck possession defenseman.

there is definitely parts of game that one doesn't like about gilbert but that was case with basically every UFA out there. and especially the one we signed.

 

[PullHard]

Idk Montreal's pairings but they now have

Markov - Subban
Emelin - Gilbert
Tinordi/ Beaulieu - Weaver

Even handedness in their line up. Seems like most other teams identify having a couple RHD in their line up as an advantage, and do what needs to be done to get there. Imagine Holland trading one of our top 4 D for a 2nd round pick, and having to ask him multiple times to waive an NTC? Wouldn't happen in our wildest dreams.

 

[14ari13]

We know Holland too well. I wonder if they read this board.

 

[Frk It]

I hate this phrase so much:

Lastly, there’s this: Boyle took less money than the Wings offered to join his friend Martin St. Louis with the New York Rangers. Robidas took the same money the Wings offered to play in Toronto, closer to his kids in Montreal. Niskanen took marginally more money to join his former mentor in Washington. But none of those targets was going to replace Nicklas Lidstrom or Rafalski.

http://www.freep.com/article/20140703/SPORTS05/307030047

I mean no ****. No one player is going to replace those guys. That doesn't change the fact that Holland has failed miserably to address the defense at all over the last 4 years.

 

[Flowah]

No one is going to replace Lidstrom or Raffy. Might as well just sign garbage over and over instead.

 

[detredWINgs]

I hate this phrase so much:


http://www.freep.com/article/20140703/SPORTS05/307030047

I mean no ****. No one player is going to replace those guys. That doesn't change the fact that Holland has failed miserably to address the defense at all over the last 4 years.

We can't replace Lidstrom or Rafalski, so our solution is to bring back Quincey and sign Colaiaco, White, and Commodore.

I can see it now. We can't replace Datsyuk or Zetterberg, so our solution is to bring back Legwand and sign Fiddler, Kelly, and Laich.

 

[crashman]

I just thought it was worth noting that this is the 3rd mistake Holland has made in regards to Kyle Quincey.

First, he waived him and lost him for NOTHING to LA. Second, he traded a 1st round pick to get him back. And finally, he overpays him by about $1.25m-1.5m in another panic move. 3 strikes and YOU'RE OUT!

I actually think Quincey is a useful player, but Holland still manages to embarrass himself with this guy.

 

[Frk It]

It's just always used as an excuse. Well no one was going to replace Lidstrom or Raffy anyways, so who cares that another year went by where we failed to upgrade the defense.

Such a lame argument. It's like "Nyquist isn't going to be the savior" argument.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I just thought it was worth noting that this is the 3rd mistake Holland has made in regards to Kyle Quincey.

First, he waived him and lost him for NOTHING to LA. Second, he traded a 1st round pick to get him back. And finally, he overpays him by about $1.25m-1.5m in another panic move. 3 strikes and YOU'RE OUT!

I actually think Quincey is a useful player, but Holland still manages to embarrass himself with this guy.

I was fine with waiving him considering where he was on the depth chart, and I would think his career as a whole shows you it wasn't really any loss for him to have been waived.

I defended the trade at first, but in hindsight think it was a big blunder all things considered.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Oo

Idk Montreal's pairings but they now have

Markov - Subban
Emelin - Gilbert
Tinordi/ Beaulieu - Weaver



Even handedness in their line up. Seems like most other teams identify having a couple RHD in their line up as an advantage, and do what needs to be done to get there. Imagine Holland trading one of our top 4 D for a 2nd rou


nd pick, and having to ask him multiple times to waive an NTC? Wouldn't happen in our wildest dreams.

habs are being built properly under the goal of trying to win, not trying to lose.

 

[SirloinUB]

My first thoughts on this trade contained a lot of anger. However, after taking a couple days to digest it, I can tolerate this signing under the right circumstances.

1) One of my concerns with replacing KFQ with a Boyle-type was, "who will PK?" Lashoff and Quincey combined for 376.08 shorthanded minutes - that represents 38.6% of our defensive pk minutes. If both of these guys are removed from the roster who fills the void? Ericsson, Kronwall, and Dekeyser all ready log a lot of pk minutes. We shouldnt trust Smith/Niskanen/Boyle to step up. We want kindl to play less.

Like it or not the pk is stabilized with Quincey on the team.


2) The kids still get a chance to play. If Sproul/Ouellet/Marchenko can combine to play at least 40 games, I will be content with our asset utilization and prospect development. This "goal" is not a sure thing, but I believe it to be realistic.


3) Without a doubt Quincey is safer than Kindl and Lashoff. I am of the belief that any move the diminishes the roles of Kindl/Lashoff helps this team.


4) Quincey is used as a third pairing guy/pk. Honestly, if our top 6 looks similar to below, we will be in better shape than last season.
Kronwall - Ericsson
Dekeyser - Smith
Quincey - Marchenko/Ouellet/Sproul
Kindl

5) Two years is not long term. Realistically, ALL of our d prospects should gain more experience. None of them have played more than a season of professional hockey on North American ice.

 

[Frk It]

.
4) Quincey is used as a third pairing guy/pk. Honestly, if our top 6 looks similar to below, we will be in better shape than last season.
Kronwall - Ericsson
Dekeyser - Smith
Quincey - Marchenko/Ouellet/Sproul
Kindl
.

Quincey did not play a 3rd pairing role last year, he was top 4 through and through. After getting a pay increase, it seems very likely that Quincey will drop lower in the depth chart next year.

Also Quincey literally only looked good with Dekeyser, anything else and it was a dumpster fire. Players have a hard time playing with him and anticipating what he will do. Playing him with a rookie, would be a bad situation for whatever rookie drew the short straw.

 

[joe89]

I hate this phrase so much:


http://www.freep.com/article/20140703/SPORTS05/307030047

I mean no ****. No one player is going to replace those guys. That doesn't change the fact that Holland has failed miserably to address the defense at all over the last 4 years.

Typical HSJ article. Whenever management fails to adress something, she tries to be the voice of reason instead of being critical. But when they do something good, she never stops writing good things about it.

 

[SirloinUB]

Quincey did not play a 3rd pairing role last year, he was top 4 through and through. After getting a pay increase, it seems very likely that Quincey will drop lower in the depth chart next year.

Also Quincey literally only looked good with Dekeyser, anything else and it was a dumpster fire. Players have a hard time playing with him and anticipating what he will do. Playing him with a rookie, would be a bad situation for whatever rookie drew the short straw.

You raise a good point about playing him with a rookie but I have a lot of confidence in Ouellet/Marchenko. Both players are safe, mobile and intelligent add in Marchenko's handedness and I have faith that it can be a manageable pairing.

What you have over looked is the fact that we have less room in our top 4. Ericsson missed half the year, and as the season wore on Smith seemed to establish himself as a legit top 4 Dman. DDK, Ericsson and Kronwall are all locks to our top 4. Does Babs have enough confidence to play Smith in that group? His actions in the playoffs suggested so as he had more even strength ice time than Quincey.

 

[Fugu]

i'd take my chances on ouellet and/or marchenko.

even if they don't live up to the challenge, they gain valuable experience, will be more ready next year and we don't have to insert 3 rookie dman into the lineup in same year or lose them for little/nothing.

we already know what quincey brings. and that's not enough. he's not going to get better anymore.

his contract says that he's not going to get beaten by kids for roster spot.

So one rookie and Kindl and Lashoff on the bottom grouping? That makes the team much, much better.

I was fine with waiving him considering where he was on the depth chart, and I would think his career as a whole shows you it wasn't really any loss for him to have been waived.

I defended the trade at first, but in hindsight think it was a big blunder all things considered.

Ahhhhh..... Well. Where's the "let's play the kids and dump the grizzled old farts attitude now?"

When Quincey was waived, he had a contract worth ~$500K, young, good size, etc. Instead, Kenny decided to keep Cheli around, and Lilja and even Lebda. Cheli didn't really do much that year, but signing the old guys certainly put a strain on the cap that year. Oh, and Meech. Some spectacular projection of talent there....

Cheli played about 20-ish games. Quincey went on to LA and played 72 games there, had a good season, iirc. Better than the flotsam the Wings chose to keep over him.


THAT was the original problem. Loyalty to the geezers, and totally blowing it as far as how these guys would pan out as NHL'ers. Ericsson was finally getting groomed, but if Holland really believed in development, he would have kept both guys. It's really the only thing that works under a cap system, or you end up like Washington and just throw money at mediocre talent.

Dan Boyle was dumped by the Sharks because they needed better D than he offered to contend in the West. Now we're all thinking he was some kind of savior.