Quebec still waiting patiently.

[Karl Eriksson]

CAD/USD at 1.32 a headwind

 

[gstommylee]

Source?

[mod]

NHL said they clearly don't see expanding beyond 32 for the forseeable future after they announced Seattle. They aren't going to expand again. No league has gone more then 32 teams. It makes no sense. And i doubt there are any markets out there that will pay the same or pay more than Seattle out there.

 

[Boeser Fan]

Source?

[mod]

Do a basic google search and you'll see Gary saying that very recently.

 

[TheLegend]

NHL said they clearly don't see expanding beyond 32 for the forseeable future after they announced Seattle. They aren't going to expand again. No league has gone more then 32 teams. It makes no sense. And i doubt there are any markets out there that will pay the same or pay more than Seattle out there.

FULL..... STOP...... NOW.....

In the case of the NHL and Gary Bettman.... “Foreseeable future” can be as little as next week.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

The metro areas are indicators of who is living where, not what they're doing for fan affiliations.

No shit. You're the one who said all these people were Chicago sports fans because Kenosha is part of the Chicago metro area. That clearly is not the case, at least not to the extent that you seem to think.

Regardless of who they grow up as a fan of and what's happening, it's a market of around 3,000,000 people that already have NFL, MLB, and NBA teams, along with three very well supported collegiate athletic programs in Marquette, Wisconsin, and Wisconsin-Milwaukee.

If you're counting the Packers, the market is 4,000,000. You can't just cut out a bunch of people to fit your argument.

And seriously, UWM? The school that averaged 1,563 for their basketball games this year? Very well supported?

The Bucks play 41 games, all across the week, mostly at 7pm. This past season, they had 6 games on Monday, 4 on Tuesday, 9 on Wednesday, 4 on Thursday, and the rest on the weekend (including 4 on Sunday). Even best-case, that was 21 games that fell on a weekday and weren't on a holiday or right next to a holiday. For a night game you're not back in Madison, Kenosha or Racine until after 11pm and Green Bay until after midnight. The suburbs? You're still talking closer to 11pm, depending on where. Yeah, you can conceivably make the other 20 without work implications, but are you doing that for all 20? Are you driving from Madison or Appleton or Green Bay or La Crosse for any of the other 21? You may love the Bucks but you're not making that drive for every game.

The Brewers? That's 81 games, again mostly at night and mostly during the week. Average attendance of low-30k says people aren't flocking in from around the state for every game. Again, you're not doing that every night from Madison or points farther away.

Again, no shit. I never said these would be season ticket holders (although I know a partial Bucks season ticket holder from De Pere but that's neither here nor there.) You can't just discount these fans because they're not part of a defined metro area. The Admirals had groups from Kaukauna and Madison this year. I guess they just shouldn't count?

Again, I'm not even arguing for Milwaukee but these arguments have grown so f***ing old.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

FULL..... STOP...... NOW.....

In the case of the NHL and Gary Bettman.... “Foreseeable future” can be as little as next week.

Or it can be like Daly’s comments about the NHL going to Europe and mean you have to think for yourself. The legacy of Bettman and the current BOG is getting the NHL at around the same level as the other three big North American sports leagues: NBA, MLB, and NFL. They have emulated successful aspects of each of those leagues. Prospect development of MLB, (trying and slowly) marketing their stars like the NBA, and getting the entertainment factor of NFL.

The “Big 4” is now a sports management term, and it wouldn’t have happened without Bettman. The league is so much stronger with the USA growth, and the strength of franchises in Carolina, St. Louis, Dallas, both LA teams, Nashville especially, and in about 5 years time Seattle and Vegas instead of the dependence on the perpetually weak Canadian dollar.

So why would he expand past 32 when no other league has? He has no reason to when no other league has done it. It’s uncharted territory and literally all he’s done is emulate the successes of other leagues while avoiding (many of their) failures. He has said on dozens of occasions (I’m not citing because it’s common knowledge and there’s Google) that scheduling is a huge priority for the NHL and 32 is perfect for the league. He basically gave a sermon after getting Detroit back to the Eastern Conference and was OCD when he couldn’t get Winnipeg out of the Southeast Division.

He has deliberately priced out Québec to the point they couldn’t afford an expansion franchise and didn’t even submit a bid competing with Seattle, and annihilated Fertitta in a close door meeting after Ferttita thought he could snag a NHL team for under $650 million. He kept the Coyotes in Arizona and the Predators away from Balsillie, and while he’s not popular, he’s done his job and has grown the league and the game. Do some thinking for yourself.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

No ****. You're the one who said all these people were Chicago sports fans because Kenosha is part of the Chicago metro area. That clearly is not the case, at least not to the extent that you seem to think

It doesn’t matter who’s metro area they’re in, 50% of the market likes Chicago teams. Peoria is technically part of the greater text end Chicago metro area, but they’re clearly in Blues territory. Pennsyltucky teams lean towards Pittsburgh sports when they’re part of the Philadelphia-Camden metro area. It doesn’t matter whose metro area they’re in, it’s the sport loyalties that matter. It’s a social issue that’s deeper than demography and geography.

 

[TheLegend]

Or it can be like Daly’s comments about the NHL going to Europe and mean you have to think for yourself. The legacy of Bettman and the current BOG is getting the NHL at around the same level as the other three big North American sports leagues: NBA, MLB, and NFL. They have emulated successful aspects of each of those leagues. Prospect development of MLB, (trying and slowly) marketing their stars like the NBA, and getting the entertainment factor of NFL.

The “Big 4” is now a sports management term, and it wouldn’t have happened without Bettman. The league is so much stronger with the USA growth, and the strength of franchises in Carolina, St. Louis, Dallas, both LA teams, Nashville especially, and in about 5 years time Seattle and Vegas instead of the dependence on the perpetually weak Canadian dollar.

So why would he expand past 32 when no other league has? He has no reason to when no other league has done it. It’s uncharted territory and literally all he’s done is emulate the successes of other leagues while avoiding (many of their) failures. He has said on dozens of occasions (I’m not citing because it’s common knowledge and there’s Google) that scheduling is a huge priority for the NHL and 32 is perfect for the league. He basically gave a sermon after getting Detroit back to the Eastern Conference and was OCD when he couldn’t get Winnipeg out of the Southeast Division.

He has deliberately priced out Québec to the point they couldn’t afford an expansion franchise and didn’t even submit a bid competing with Seattle, and annihilated Fertitta in a close door meeting after Ferttita thought he could snag a NHL team for under $650 million. He kept the Coyotes in Arizona and the Predators away from Balsillie, and while he’s not popular, he’s done his job and has grown the league and the game. Do some thinking for yourself.

There's 650 million reasons why expanding beyond 32 teams is possible. Look.... nobody wanted to go to Las Vegas because of the gambling stigma attached to it. Now you have the NHL, NFL in another year and rumors are that MLB looking at it.

And Quebec may not be "priced out". You do recall their application was suspended...... not rejected. Therefore technically it's still open, and there's the possibility they still come under the $500 million price tag they applied under.

The point is.... never say never.

 

[gstommylee]

There's 650 million reasons why expanding beyond 32 teams is possible. Look.... nobody wanted to go to Las Vegas because of the gambling stigma attached to it. Now you have the NHL, NFL in another year and rumors are that MLB looking at it.

And Quebec may not be "priced out". You do recall their application was suspended...... not rejected. Therefore technically it's still open, and there's the possibility they still come under the $500 million price tag they applied under.

The point is.... never say never.

And who beyond seattle is gonna pay 650m+ for a team? Let me guess no one. only 2 turn in bids back when it was at 500m and quebec couldn't even come up with the money for that. Now its 650m with Seattle and only seattle agreed to that price. So which market that doesn't have a team is suddenly gonna pay more than 650m no one.

I doubt it. I doubt Quebec ever comes in as expansion cause there is no room for them. They don't want to go back to an unbalanced league. And to get a balanced league requires going to 36 teams and Again there is no way there are any remaining markets out there willing to pay 650m+. Not even Quebec. Sorry but for any new teams the price take is now north of 650m which means everyone else is priced out.

 

[TheLegend]

And who beyond seattle is gonna pay 650m+ for a team? Let me guess no one. only 2 turn in bids back when it was at 500m and quebec couldn't even come up with the money for that. Now its 650m with Seattle and only seattle agreed to that price. So which market that doesn't have a team is suddenly gonna pay more than 650m no one.

I doubt it. I doubt Quebec ever comes in as expansion cause there is no room for them. They don't want to go back to an unbalanced league. And to get a balanced league requires going to 36 teams and Again there is no way there are any remaining markets out there willing to pay 650m+. Not even Quebec. Sorry but for any new teams the price take is now north of 650m which means everyone else is priced out.

You want me to dig up all your past statements about nobody ever spending a billion dollars to bring hockey to Seattle back when it was only $500 million??? For Quebec at the time it wasn't $500 million to them.... it was more like $760 million when you consider the loonie was near an all time low.

JUST..... STOP......

 

[gstommylee]

You want me to dig up all your past statements about nobody ever spending a billion dollars to bring hockey to Seattle back when it was only $500 million??? For Quebec at the time it wasn't $500 million to them.... it was more like $760 million when you consider the loonie was near an all time low.

JUST..... STOP......

Okay i am game. At the time back when 2015, for there to been a bid for expansion by a Seattle group, it as basically built an arena built in another city that is basically NHL ONLY. There is a huge difference between NHL only and both NBA and NHL. City of Seattle still was locked in with sodo arena back then. No one wanted to spend over a billion plus on what is at the time NHL only building with just a NHL team. It would have never penciled out as a 100% privately funded arena that's why no one turned in a bid.

Both Quebec and Vegas both had their arena built and paid by somebody else. Vegas was MGM, Quebec's arena was 100% government funding. So all the ownership group of the team had to do was pay for the expansion fee not pay for the entire cost of the arena on top the cost of the team. Again that is why Seattle did not turn in a bid back during 2015.

The situation changed since then. Seattle said no to Sodo arena and started a request for proposal, two groups came AEG and OVG, OVG came out as the winning bid of the two. Sodo group never bothered to really try to win out and get that street vacation thus OVG's arena plan ended up getting approved the moment sodo arena's MOU expired.

Since the situation has changed. You are looking at a similar situation like with Vegas and Quebec, Someone pays for the arena that will house the NHL and the NBA and someone else pays for the team(s).

Instead of being an arena just for 1 sport you have an arena for two sports making it way easier to pencil out that kind of investment. I was correct to say back in 2015 days that no one was gonna do a billion dollars just for a NHL team but today its not a billion dollars for one teams its a couple billion dollars (when its all said and done) for the arena and 2 teams where the OVG covers the cost of the arena, NHL group covers the cost of the NHL team and the NBA group (if one returns to Seattle) covers the cost of the NBA team. Again a complete different situation than what it was 4 years ago.

Its so much easier to do when someone else is paying for it. Vegas wouldn't gotten a team today if MGM didn't built that arena Quebec wouldn't even be allowed to turn in a bid if providence of Quebec and Quebec city paid and built for that arena.

Now to exclude the 3 Seattle group back in 2015 there were 11 other groups that requested an application all balked at that 500m fee at the time and never bothered to turn one in, one was for Kansas city another one was for another Toronto team.

The NHL never wanted Quebec to begin with. They wanted Seattle and Vegas to balance the league but at to settled with just Vegas. There was an reason NHL deferred Quebec in case the situation at the time changed, there could been a eastern team to western city relocation thus a spot open for Quebec. There was no spot open for Quebec as long as it remained 16 eastern conference teams. No eastern time zone team was gonna play outside a eastern time zone division and the league had zero interest of having a 15/17 alignment.

Had another eastern team relocated to a western city let say Houston, or Portland for example, i think the NHL would have gone back to that deferred bid and granted that expansion spot to Quebec. The deferred bid again was only there in case like a said a spot opens for Quebec in the eastern conference in order to keep it 16/16.

But that didn't happen, Seattle gotten their arena figured out with a NHL group with cash and thus NHL reopened expansion and granted Seattle that 2nd expansion spot.

If NHL wanted to go beyond 32 teams, they would have by now. Quebec and Vegas with 2015 expansion process and Seattle with the 2018 expansion process. Again that didn't happen cause they don't want an unbalanced league. Even with 34 teams, you'll still have an unbalanced league. The only point of the 2015 and 2018 process was to balance out the league 16/16. If they want to remain balanced you are basically asking for 36 teams and i doubt there are any markets out there willing to pay 650m+ for a team. Btw there is no written agreement that I am aware off that says the NHL has to honor that 2015 expansion price fee for Quebec.

They can make Quebec pay the same as Seattle or more and there is nothing Quebec can do about it. They can easily go back and declare Quebec application back then as invalid thus Quebec has to put in a new application. Again nothing Quebec can do about it.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

There's 650 million reasons why expanding beyond 32 teams is possible. Look.... nobody wanted to go to Las Vegas because of the gambling stigma attached to it. Now you have the NHL, NFL in another year and rumors are that MLB looking at it.

And Quebec may not be "priced out". You do recall their application was suspended...... not rejected. Therefore technically it's still open, and there's the possibility they still come under the $500 million price tag they applied under.

The point is.... never say never.

No one can afford it. They’ve done this on purpose. A decade ago, KC, Toronto 2.0, Hamilton, and Québec City were supposedly inevitable. Now, they aren’t even putting bids forward. Everyone on here thought Houston was getting a team for sure. If they did any thinking for themselves when they heard Fertitta say “for the right price” they would know how things would end up. And it wouldn’t be $650 million, you realize that right? It would hop up to somewhere just under $1 billion. You do see the pattern from $500 million to $650 million, right?

The application was suspended because the expansion fee became half of the net worth of the ownership group. And that’s just the right to have a team. That’s literally the definition of priced out.

All those leagues aren’t going over 32 to go to Vegas. MLB is trying to get to 32 and the NFL wisely doesn’t want to go past 32. When you see the NFL go last 32, then we’ll talk about it. But until then, it’s not even on the table. The NBA is perfectly fine with 30, they’re not even getting to 32 let alone past it and they’re one of the most popular sports in North America.

The NHL is perfect the way it is once they get a strong Pacific NW franchise into the picture. Everything they’ve done has been to become a Big 4 franchise. Don’t think that throw that away for the sake of expansion fees, which is a one time shot in the arm of $20 million per owner.

 

[gstommylee]

No one can afford it. They’ve done this on purpose. A decade ago, KC, Toronto 2.0, Hamilton, and Québec City were supposedly inevitable. Now, they aren’t even putting bids forward. Everyone on here thought Houston was getting a team for sure. If they did any thinking for themselves when they heard Fertitta say “for the right price” they would know how things would end up. And it wouldn’t be $650 million, you realize that right? It would hop up to somewhere just under $1 billion. You do see the pattern from $500 million to $650 million, right?

The application was suspended because the expansion fee became half of the net worth of the ownership group. And that’s just the right to have a team. That’s literally the definition of priced out.

All those leagues aren’t going over 32 to go to Vegas. MLB is trying to get to 32 and the NFL wisely doesn’t want to go past 32. When you see the NFL go last 32, then we’ll talk about it. But until then, it’s not even on the table. The NBA is perfectly fine with 30, they’re not even getting to 32 let alone past it and they’re one of the most popular sports in North America.

The NHL is perfect the way it is once they get a strong Pacific NW franchise into the picture. Everything they’ve done has been to become a Big 4 franchise. Don’t think that throw that away for the sake of expansion fees, which is a one time shot in the arm of $20 million per owner.

Also you always have a few markets in your back pocket waiting for a reason that is in case the league needs to move a few teams. You don't get those markets by expansion cause it'll force you to have to remove teams if you hit a problem where the league is forced to move a team but can't move it cause there is no market available anymore cause you over expanded. Quebec is one Houston is another etc.

Regarding Seattle back in 2015 you were asking they pay up double than what was asked for quebec and Vegas due to the need to built an arena and that just wasn't going to happen.

Yes Seattle is getting a team finally a whole expansion process later cause someone else took care of the arena problem and brought forward a ownership group where 650m isn't in the case of quebec worth half of the group.

There is another market that the NHL wouldn't mind to have to with Seattle and that is Portland Oregon. (Seattle vs Portland one of the biggest US rivalries in sports) Not going to happen cause the price was too much. The late Paul Allen said as much as what Houston said for the right price and now its unknown with who knows on who will eventually own the Portland NBA team + their arena. Allen's sister is keeping those 2 assets for the time being.

 

[topshelf15]

The league wont go there because of the politics ,of the rumored owner...

 

[Dirty Old Man]

You must be butt ugly. To be assaulted with popcorn while you're taking a leak and having a border guard diss you is the ultimate in shame.

Anymore comical stories of Canadians being mean to you?

None. Well, except for you, just now.

 

[TheLegend]

Okay i am game. At the time back when 2015, for there to been a bid for expansion by a Seattle group, it as basically built an arena built in another city that is basically NHL ONLY. There is a huge difference between NHL only and both NBA and NHL. City of Seattle still was locked in with sodo arena back then. No one wanted to spend over a billion plus on what is at the time NHL only building with just a NHL team. It would have never penciled out as a 100% privately funded arena that's why no one turned in a bid.

Both Quebec and Vegas both had their arena built and paid by somebody else. Vegas was MGM, Quebec's arena was 100% government funding. So all the ownership group of the team had to do was pay for the expansion fee not pay for the entire cost of the arena on top the cost of the team. Again that is why Seattle did not turn in a bid back during 2015.

The situation changed since then. Seattle said no to Sodo arena and started a request for proposal, two groups came AEG and OVG, OVG came out as the winning bid of the two. Sodo group never bothered to really try to win out and get that street vacation thus OVG's arena plan ended up getting approved the moment sodo arena's MOU expired.

Since the situation has changed. You are looking at a similar situation like with Vegas and Quebec, Someone pays for the arena that will house the NHL and the NBA and someone else pays for the team(s).

Instead of being an arena just for 1 sport you have an arena for two sports making it way easier to pencil out that kind of investment. I was correct to say back in 2015 days that no one was gonna do a billion dollars just for a NHL team but today its not a billion dollars for one teams its a couple billion dollars (when its all said and done) for the arena and 2 teams where the OVG covers the cost of the arena, NHL group covers the cost of the NHL team and the NBA group (if one returns to Seattle) covers the cost of the NBA team. Again a complete different situation than what it was 4 years ago.

Its so much easier to do when someone else is paying for it. Vegas wouldn't gotten a team today if MGM didn't built that arena Quebec wouldn't even be allowed to turn in a bid if providence of Quebec and Quebec city paid and built for that arena.

Now to exclude the 3 Seattle group back in 2015 there were 11 other groups that requested an application all balked at that 500m fee at the time and never bothered to turn one in, one was for Kansas city another one was for another Toronto team.

The NHL never wanted Quebec to begin with. They wanted Seattle and Vegas to balance the league but at to settled with just Vegas. There was an reason NHL deferred Quebec in case the situation at the time changed, there could been a eastern team to western city relocation thus a spot open for Quebec. There was no spot open for Quebec as long as it remained 16 eastern conference teams. No eastern time zone team was gonna play outside a eastern time zone division and the league had zero interest of having a 15/17 alignment.

Had another eastern team relocated to a western city let say Houston, or Portland for example, i think the NHL would have gone back to that deferred bid and granted that expansion spot to Quebec. The deferred bid again was only there in case like a said a spot opens for Quebec in the eastern conference in order to keep it 16/16.

But that didn't happen, Seattle gotten their arena figured out with a NHL group with cash and thus NHL reopened expansion and granted Seattle that 2nd expansion spot.

If NHL wanted to go beyond 32 teams, they would have by now. Quebec and Vegas with 2015 expansion process and Seattle with the 2018 expansion process. Again that didn't happen cause they don't want an unbalanced league. Even with 34 teams, you'll still have an unbalanced league. The only point of the 2015 and 2018 process was to balance out the league 16/16. If they want to remain balanced you are basically asking for 36 teams and i doubt there are any markets out there willing to pay 650m+ for a team. Btw there is no written agreement that I am aware off that says the NHL has to honor that 2015 expansion price fee for Quebec.

They can make Quebec pay the same as Seattle or more and there is nothing Quebec can do about it. They can easily go back and declare Quebec application back then as invalid thus Quebec has to put in a new application. Again nothing Quebec can do about it.

Wow….. so many holes in your little alternate reality to plug there….

Let’s keep it simple….

When Seattle failed to enter a bid, you were absolutely adamant nobody would put up the money to pay for an expansion AND build an arena. You even pushed the Coyotes relocating to Seattle narrative as a way around it. Which was hysterical since most of us who had been following that saga knew it wasn’t going to happen.

The reason for the expansion process was all about Bill Foley and Vegas. It wasn’t Seattle….. it wasn’t Quebec City (even though they’d been working on it to the point of having an arena built). Foley was ready to go and the league didn’t want to lose out on a big payday. Even so, the league had to make it an open process to weed out the pretenders. Quebec City went forward with Vegas…. All three Seattle groups (at that time) did not.

Quebec City’s application was ultimately “suspended” as the league put it…. because (in their words) there was a geographical concern, but the biggest issue was the Canadian dollar sitting at the lowest point it’d been in ages. Plus… there was the well-known secret of PKP and his politics.

Now if they never intended to go to QC as you keep pontificating WHY DIDN’T THEY SIMPLY REJECT THE EXPANSION APPLICATION???? It was known Quebecor was looking to add a minor partner but they weren’t able to. The CDN$ was not showing signs of improving short term so it’s fully understandable how difficult it would have been for Quebecor to find a partner. If the CDN$ had not been so bad and Qubecor got their minority investor there’s a very good chance (in my mind) the Nordiques would have returned.

But…… OVG comes along and suddenly “things are different”. The “league won’t expand beyond 32 teams!!” “Nobody else has so the NHL never will!!”

To be perfectly honest…. It really would have been great to see QC get awarded team #32 just to see how you would explain that one off.

 

[gstommylee]

Wow….. so many holes in your little alternate reality to plug there….

Let’s keep it simple….

When Seattle failed to enter a bid, you were absolutely adamant nobody would put up the money to pay for an expansion AND build an arena. You even pushed the Coyotes relocating to Seattle narrative as a way around it. Which was hysterical since most of us who had been following that saga knew it wasn’t going to happen.

The reason for the expansion process was all about Bill Foley and Vegas. It wasn’t Seattle….. it wasn’t Quebec City (even though they’d been working on it to the point of having an arena built). Foley was ready to go and the league didn’t want to lose out on a big payday. Even so, the league had to make it an open process to weed out the pretenders. Quebec City went forward with Vegas…. All three Seattle groups (at that time) did not.

Quebec City’s application was ultimately “suspended” as the league put it…. because (in their words) there was a geographical concern, but the biggest issue was the Canadian dollar sitting at the lowest point it’d been in ages. Plus… there was the well-known secret of PKP and his politics.

Now if they never intended to go to QC as you keep pontificating WHY DIDN’T THEY SIMPLY REJECT THE EXPANSION APPLICATION???? It was known Quebecor was looking to add a minor partner but they weren’t able to. The CDN$ was not showing signs of improving short term so it’s fully understandable how difficult it would have been for Quebecor to find a partner. If the CDN$ had not been so bad and Qubecor got their minority investor there’s a very good chance (in my mind) the Nordiques would have returned.

But…… OVG comes along and suddenly “things are different”. The “league won’t expand beyond 32 teams!!” “Nobody else has so the NHL never will!!”

To be perfectly honest…. It really would have been great to see QC get awarded team #32 just to see how you would explain that one off.

Sure Quebec gotten team #32 cause there was a spot open for Quebec in the eastern conference due to a eastern to western conference relocation not alignment change but relocation a team to a western city. NHL again deferred Quebec bid in case such a relocation actually happened to where they had a open spot for Quebec as an expansion team. No spot opened up. Nothing in writing said NHL has to go back and take a look at that bid nor nothing in writing says they have to give it to them at 500m. And there is nothing Quebec can do about it. The whole point of 2015 and 2018 expansion process was to add two more western conference teams not add more eastenrn conference teams. They got vegas in the first one added Seattle in the 2nd one.

its just Seattle threw NHL in a total loop by not turning in a bid in 2015 for reasons cause it didn't make sense to do a 100% privately funded arena just for hockey since NBA was locked in a different Seattle arena plan.

When Seattle government said no to hansen and sodo arena plan, the NBA was no longer locked in with that plan thus OVG showed up to redo key arena not buy a NHL team cause they can't majority own a sports team. They bought David Bonderman and co aboard to buy that team thus you have 1 group to build the arena another group to own and buy the team. Not one group two. The intention of the NHL group is they will at some point move to attempt to acquire a NBA team once the NBA is ready to expand or relocate.

first of all OVG arena plan is not hockey only building never has been never will be its for both NBA and NHL. 2nd of all NHL Seattle's ownership group that got awarded the team is not paying 100% for everything. (arena+ team like the previous 3 groups had to) They aren't paying the full cost of the arena they may pay some of it (Nothing came out saying how much) but they aren't paying 1.5b for arena + team. Huge difference than what it back in 2015. I live in the Seattle region i been following it for way longer than most people here have. When i said we had no one back in then in 2015 willing to take on a NHL only project cause a 100% privately funded arena for hockey only doesn't pencil out.

For a 100% arena to actually pencil out you need dates and two arenas splits the dates between the two buildings. Seattle isn't exactly like Vegas.

The NHL got what they wanted they have a balanced league 16/16 and no intentions of wanting to beyond 32 or again they would already done that. They aren't gonna expand just for the sake of doing so just so they get quebec when adding quebec does nothing but split the pie. Canada TV deal is capped out. If quebec wants a team then they got to wait until there is a situation to where a eastern conference team has to relocate and that isn't going to happen in the near future.

The NHL BOG has decided they did not want Quebec they wanted Vegas and Seattle more than they wanted Quebec. They didn't want 17 team in the eastern conference nor did they want Quebec in the central division.

Again they got what they wanted and are ending it there with expansion. The league and its BOG gains NOTHING by adding more and more teams it'll only reduce the pie each team gets. Canada TV deal when it gets renewed won't suddenly go up if Quebec has a team.

 

[TheLegend]

Sure Quebec gotten team #32 cause there was a spot open for Quebec in the eastern conference due to a eastern to western conference relocation not alignment change but relocation a team to a western city. NHL again deferred Quebec bid in case such a relocation actually happened to where they had a open spot for Quebec as an expansion team. No spot opened up. Nothing in writing said NHL has to go back and take a look at that bid nor nothing in writing says they have to give it to them at 500m. nd there is nothing Quebec can do about it. The whole point of 2015 and 2018 expansion process was to add two more western conference teams not add more eastenrn conference teams. They got vegas in the first one added Seattle in the 2nd one.

its just Seattle threw NHL in a total loop by not turning in a bid in 2015 for reasons cause it didn't make sense to do a 100% privately funded arena just for hockey since NBA was locked in a different Seattle arena plan.

When Seattle government said no to hansen and sodo arena plan, the NBA was no longer locked in with that plan thus OVG showed up to redo key arena not buy a NHL team cause they can't majority own a sports team. They bought David Bonderman and co aboard to buy that team thus you have 1 group to build the arena another group to own and buy the team. Not one group two. The intention of the NHL group is they will at some point move to attempt to acquire a NBA team once the NBA is ready to expand or relocate.

first of all OVG arena plan is not hockey only building never has been never will be its for both NBA and NHL. 2nd of all NHL Seattle's ownership group that got awarded the team is not paying 100% for everything. (arena+ team like the previous 3 groups had to) They aren't paying the full cost of the arena they may pay some of it (Nothing came out saying how much) but they aren't paying 1.5b for arena + team. Huge difference than what it back in 2015. I live in the Seattle region i been following it for way longer than most people here have. When i said we had no one back in then in 2015 willing to take on a NHL only project cause a 100% privately funded arena for hockey only doesn't pencil out.

For a 100% arena to actually pencil out you need dates and two arenas splits the dates between the two buildings. Seattle isn't exactly like Vegas.

The NHL got what they wanted they have a balanced league 16/16 and no intentions of wanting to beyond 32 or again they would already done that. They aren't gonna expand just for the sake of doing so just so they get quebec when adding quebec does nothing but split the pie. Canada TV deal is capped out. If quebec wants a team then they got to wait until there is a situation to where a eastern conference team has to relocate and that isn't going to happen in the near future.

The NHL BOG has decided they did not want Quebec they wanted Vegas and Seattle more than they wanted Quebec. They didn't want 17 team in the eastern conference nor did they want Quebec in the central division.

Again they got what they wanted and are ending it there with expansion. The league and its BOG gains NOTHING by adding more and more teams it'll only reduce the pie each team gets. Canada TV deal when it gets renewed won't suddenly go up if Quebec has a team.

Here in lies your biggest problem.

You continue to post like you actually have an inside ear on absolutely everything the NHL does. When the reality is you don't. Nobody here really does.... including me.

You've made several bold statements in regards to the league as if they're cast in stone, while in truth they never are. Then when you get called out on one of these items you resort to some long protracted bunch of gibberish that has no relation to the actual point you're being called out for.

It's called baffling them with bull****.

You have no idea if the NHL will stop at 32 teams.

You have no idea if Quebec City will ever get the Nordiques back (and it's a shame they haven't received an expansion franchise because the fans there have been put through a wringer that rivals what Coyotes fans have been put though. And in spite of the few yahoos who occasional take their shots at the Coyotes "belonging" there. )

Likewise, you don't decide if it ends up as an expansion team. The BoG does.

Even the unbalanced team alignment is an old narrative that was debunked years ago when the NHL operated nearly a decade with 21 teams and if Seattle hadn't come on board would have managed to survive with 31. So you don't decide the number of teams. The BoG does. 32 makes for a real nice round number, but had Houston offered to make it 33, they would listen and decide for themselves. And not because some fan on a message board declares "no other league has more than 32 teams."

 

[End on a Hinote]

The "The league wont expand more than 32 teams" talk reminds me of that gem of a myth back just before the Jets returned of how an arena cannot have any less than 17,000 seats.

 

[Shockmaster]

Here in lies your biggest problem.

You continue to post like you actually have an inside ear on absolutely everything the NHL does. When the reality is you don't. Nobody here really does.... including me.

You've made several bold statements in regards to the league as if they're cast in stone, while in truth they never are. Then when you get called out on one of these items you resort to some long protracted bunch of gibberish that has no relation to the actual point you're being called out for.

It's called baffling them with bull****.

You have no idea if the NHL will stop at 32 teams.

You have no idea if Quebec City will ever get the Nordiques back (and it's a shame they haven't received an expansion franchise because the fans there have been put through a wringer that rivals what Coyotes fans have been put though. And in spite of the few yahoos who occasional take their shots at the Coyotes "belonging" there. )

Likewise, you don't decide if it ends up as an expansion team. The BoG does.

Even the unbalanced team alignment is an old narrative that was debunked years ago when the NHL operated nearly a decade with 21 teams and if Seattle hadn't come on board would have managed to survive with 31. So you don't decide the number of teams. The BoG does. 32 makes for a real nice round number, but had Houston offered to make it 33, they would listen and decide for themselves. And not because some fan on a message board declares "no other league has more than 32 teams."

Well, that's mostly true. None of us really knows what is going on behind the scenes. But, in the 8 years since the Thrashers have relocated to Winnipeg there have been a lot of "rumors" in regards to Quebec that have turned out to be nothing more than wild speculation, wishful thinking, troll bait, or a combination of each. Nobody can say with any certainly that Quebec will never get a team, but the whole "Winnipeg got a team back, so we must be next!" mentality really never seemed very healthy, and 8 years later still nothing.

 

[gstommylee]

The "The league wont expand more than 32 teams" talk reminds me of that gem of a myth back just before the Jets returned of how an arena cannot have any less than 17,000 seats.

You do realize the NHL had no choice in that one. Thrashers were evicted and the only option was Winnipeg. Completely different than expanding just for the sake of expanding that provides zero financial gain for the league just to appease a fan base. Its apples to oranges.

 

[gstommylee]

Well, that's mostly true. None of us really knows what is going on behind the scenes. But, in the 8 years since the Thrashers have relocated to Winnipeg there have been a lot of "rumors" in regards to Quebec that have turned out to be nothing more than wild speculation, wishful thinking, troll bait, or a combination of each. Nobody can say with any certainly that Quebec will never get a team, but the whole "Winnipeg got a team back, so we must be next!" mentality really never seemed very healthy, and 8 years later still nothing.

If there was another option that had better arena set up than Winnipeg, the thrashers would have relocated somewhere else instead but there wasn't.

 

[voyageur]

If there was another option that had better arena set up than Winnipeg, the thrashers would have relocated somewhere else instead but there wasn't.

You forget that Winnipeg made a presentation to the BoG showing a profit model for the franchise. The NHL had a good relationship with Mark Chipman, he worked his way up to earn what was due to a city that will always be a hockey city.

 

[gstommylee]

You forget that Winnipeg made a presentation to the BoG showing a profit model for the franchise. The NHL had a good relationship with Mark Chipman, he worked his way up to earn what was due to a city that will always be a hockey city.

If Portland was available and late Paul Allen and and a NHL group for portland wanted that team back then do you think they would have gone to Winnipeg? No i doubt it. That's my point

 

[voyageur]

Portland never wanted a team competing against its main tenant. Paul Allen may have enquired but he didn't like the price tag. NHL wanted the PacCoast without a doubt. But Winnipeg was also in contention for Arizona, the optics of a new franchise looked better for Bettman than the one that left town, and so the circle came around. The point is Winnipeg showed a model that worked. They could put an organization and a fanbase in place in a summer, not sure that was something that would have worked for Portland. Quebec could easily, but we are told the league is healthy and stable.