Quebec still waiting patiently.

[MNNumbers]

Yes ...... and no. Revenue matters to the players, because the more revenue that exists the more money they can make. They're all for revenue maximization. There's a pretty decent argument that owners don't have an interest in maximizing revenue because it ultimately impacts small-revenue markets negatively by putting more pressure on them to spend money they don't have. Certainly if I'm an owner of a team in the lower half of revenues, I don't want to keep adding teams that generate [a lot] more revenue because then that drives the salary cap up and forces me to spend more money and reduces my chances to make a profit..

This is why Barroway would have been in favor of expansion to Vegas. He knew he was in as a short timer. So, his 16M from the expansion fee would be greater than the losses he would incur as a result of the cap rising. There is a break-even point there somewhere for small market owners. Their share of expansion money won't go away in a year, but maybe 10..... (Without doing the math -- just for idea's sake).

 

[sawchuk1971]

don't know if this was posted....coyotes still might relocate if an arena deal falls through....chances it might relocate to canada (ontario or quebec)..

NHL Believed to Have Promised Coyotes New Owner Relocation if Bid for New Arena Fails |

While Bettman has refused “to issue threats”, he did say that he “hopes” the Coyotes arena situation works itself out before relocation becomes a topic of discussion (there’s no long-term lease in place). The NHL prohibits new owners from immediately filing to move the team, so unless changes are made to the league’s bylaws the Coyotes are going to be in Glendale for the next 7 seasons.

But several sources – including former Thrashers President Dr. Harvey Schiller – tell JohnWallStreet that they believe Bettman has promised Meruelo that the “owners will do whatever is necessary to help him turn the franchise around and make some money” – including allowing him to move the team sooner if he’s unable to get a new building in the Phoenix market. Schiller said, “no one would buy that franchise unless they were assured there was a way it would stop losing money.”

Back on June 6th, we noted that if women’s hockey is going to be successful in North America, teams will need to be based in established hockey markets (think: original 6). If you use that same logic to determine the Coyotes future, Meruelo would be wise to move the team to Quebec City. While Dr. Schiller notes that “there have always been concerns about competition within the Toronto market, it’s always good to capture as many fans as you can in a major market” – and there is no better hockey market than Ontario, Canada (Quebec is strong too).

 

[DowntownBooster]

don't know if this was posted....coyotes still might relocate if an arena deal falls through....chances it might relocate to canada (ontario or quebec)..

NHL Believed to Have Promised Coyotes New Owner Relocation if Bid for New Arena Fails |

Sounds like someone just regurgitating old stories and trying to stir the pot so soon after the NHL approved the Coyotes sale to Meruelo. I believe he's committed to making things work in Arizona and the fans there certainly don't need to see stories like this already.

 

[jonathan613]

The NHL has only relocated 1 franchise in the last 20 years and that was a desperate situation in Atlanta which wound up with an ownership group that did not care about hockey. I think the more realistic route would be through expansion where owners could collect expansion fees. If there were 34 teams, divisions would be eliminated and you would have 2 17 team conferences. Teams would play in conference 3 times against each opponent and 2 times against the teams in the opposite conference. So i think quebec should think of trying to partner with a city such as houston to make that happen. I will only note that the seattle group was successful in getting a team through the expansion process and not via relocation.

I think the NHL could do this final expansion to 34 but none after that as all major markets in the US and Canada except Atlanta would then have teams in this scenario I am dreaming of above.

 

[GuelphStormer]

don't know if this was posted....coyotes still might relocate if an arena deal falls through....chances it might relocate to canada (ontario or quebec)..

NHL Believed to Have Promised Coyotes New Owner Relocation if Bid for New Arena Fails |

makes complete sense to me. a lot of folks have been saying for years now that the only value in this franchise is its portability. seems pretty clear now that without Sarver and his Suns signing onto a new, shared facility with this NHL franchise, nothing important will change and it will forever be a massive financial drain on anyone that touches it. i wonder what barroway's final tally will work out to be ... and how many dimes this will have cost the other owners these past dozen years.

 

[TheLegend]

makes complete sense to me. a lot of folks have been saying for years now that the only value in this franchise is its portability. seems pretty clear now that without Sarver and his Suns signing onto a new, shared facility with this NHL franchise, nothing important will change and it will forever be a massive financial drain on anyone that touches it. i wonder what barroway's final tally will work out to be ... and how many dimes this will have cost the other owners these past dozen years.

Barroway will end up with 5% of the Coyotes after all is said and done if reports are accurate. But that is also based upon what value the franchise is set at.

All indications are the IA gang did not lose any of their investment after they were bought out due to the increased valuation of the franchise between 2013 and 2017.

This JohnWallStreet website carries zero credibility. I’ve perused the site and it’s nothing more than a couple of sports biz fanboys operating under pseudo names who scour the internet for hot takes from other sources and then toss them together.

Their Twitter account spent almost two days spamming that article in an attempt to draw in new subscribers to their little “newsletter.” Which in this case amounted to nothing more informative than what’s already been discussed in the Coyotes megathread. Naturally it got big play on the #Nordiques hashtag by the same three or four accounts who’ve been hard core advocates for a team back in QC. And that’s where I suspect it ended up landing here from.

It’s been the worst kept secret that the NHL has a non-relocation clause as part of any new ownership change. But they can choose to modify or ignore it if the situation warrants it. At the same time they don’t like relocating franchises and will expend efforts to keep them from moving. This has been true with the Coyotes from the beginning.

 

[GuelphStormer]

Barroway will end up with 5% of the Coyotes after all is said and done if reports are accurate. But that is also based upon what value the franchise is set at.

All indications are the IA gang did not lose any of their investment after they were bought out due to the increased valuation of the franchise between 2013 and 2017.

This JohnWallStreet website carries zero credibility. I’ve perused the site and it’s nothing more than a couple of sports biz fanboys operating under pseudo names who scour the internet for hot takes from other sources and then toss them together.

Their Twitter account spent almost two days spamming that article in an attempt to draw in new subscribers to their little “newsletter.” Which in this case amounted to nothing more informative than what’s already been discussed in the Coyotes megathread. Naturally it got big play on the #Nordiques hashtag by the same three or four accounts who’ve been hard core advocates for a team back in QC. And that’s where I suspect it ended up landing here from.

It’s been the worst kept secret that the NHL has a non-relocation clause as part of any new ownership change. But they can choose to modify or ignore it if the situation warrants it. At the same time they don’t like relocating franchises and will expend efforts to keep them from moving. This has been true with the Coyotes from the beginning.

Thanks, TL. As always, you supply good information.

For sure, these guys ain't winning pulitzers, so take it with a bucket of salt, but their premise isnt crazy. Re: non-relocation clause, yeah, that would be interesting to see. do we know if this new guy has connections with some other location? would seem poor due diligence to not at least have i have a draft/alternative business plan for relocation.

 

[gstommylee]

don't know if this was posted....coyotes still might relocate if an arena deal falls through....chances it might relocate to canada (ontario or quebec)..

NHL Believed to Have Promised Coyotes New Owner Relocation if Bid for New Arena Fails |

I doubt its quebec for the same reason why Quebec didn't get expansion in 2015 expansion process they do not want a 17 team there and i doubt they also want quebec playing in the central division either.

 

[Henkka]

I doubt its quebec for the same reason why Quebec didn't get expansion in 2015 expansion process they do not want a 17 team there and i doubt they also want quebec playing in the central division either.

It basicly means Eastern Conference relocation, and then Quebec will happen.

West is now fixed with Seattle and Arizona getting things done.

 

[Braun]

It basicly means Eastern Conference relocation, and then Quebec will happen.

West is now fixed with Seattle and Arizona getting things done.

There won’t be any eastern conference relocation and Quebec will never get a team. It sucks but it is what it is.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

There won’t be any eastern conference relocation and Quebec will never get a team. It sucks but it is what it is.

1. Never is a long, long, long time.

2. I continue to maintain that the comments about an uneven distribution of teams in the East/West are overblown. If push comes to shove, the NHL will move a team and it will stay in whatever conference it's in at the time [a la Atlanta moving to Winnipeg] and the league will worry about getting geography adjusted later on - even if that means inducing someone to flip. There's "what you want to do" and "what you actually do" and sometimes the two aren't the same; when that happens, you don't plow ahead with the former just because you want your way.

 

[AcerComputer]

There won’t be any eastern conference relocation and Quebec will never get a team. It sucks but it is what it is.

If I recall Gary Batman said that the NHL doesn't do things based on Symmetry,

 

[MNNumbers]

Let's see.....

Present situation seems to be that Quebec City has an arena, but not a team. Potentially, it has a willing owner as well, although we don't really know very much about that.

Houston has potential, but it has serious roadblocks. It has one arena, which is controlled by the guy who owns the NBA team. It seems fairly well documented that he doesn't want to pay what the NHL wants him to pay in order to bring the NHL there.

Portland MAYBE has potential, because the arena there, which houses the NBA team, is currently in the midst of a change of ownership and control due to Paul Allen's death. But we know absolutely nothing about that.

Kansas City has an arena with no major tenant, but which is fairly well booked, owned by the city, and making money for the city. There is no possible way to go there, unless someone thinks they can survive only on NHL receipts while paying rent.

And, from there, things get more difficult.

I believe that, based on the way the Arizona situation has unfolded, that relocation of anyone is going to be a last resort. But, if it has to happen anywhere, there don't seem to be many possibilities of places to move to.

 

[DowntownBooster]

Let's see.....

Kansas City has an arena with no major tenant, but which is fairly well booked, owned by the city, and making money for the city. There is no possible way to go there, unless someone thinks they can survive only on NHL receipts while paying rent.

I think it's time to drop Kansas City from the whole relocation (or expansion) discussion in regards to the NHL. The city owns the arena and it makes money for them so there is no reason for them to pursue a tenant in either the NHL or NBA. It's extremely difficult for a pro sports team to make money in a facility in which they do not control the revenue generating features (advertising, concessions, parking, etc) but only ticket revenue. It's well known that teams in that position will keep going back to the landlord (the city) to seek more and more concessions until it reaches a point in which the city is actually subsidizing the team. Kansas City would be best to stay away from making any attempts to attract (or accommodate) a major league team.

 

[MNNumbers]

I think it's time to drop Kansas City from the whole relocation (or expansion) discussion in regards to the NHL. The city owns the arena and it makes money for them so there is no reason for them to pursue a tenant in either the NHL or NBA. It's extremely difficult for a pro sports team to make money in a facility in which they do not control the revenue generating features (advertising, concessions, parking, etc) but only ticket revenue. It's well known that teams in that position will keep going back to the landlord (the city) to seek more and more concessions until it reaches a point in which the city is actually subsidizing the team. Kansas City would be best to stay away from making any attempts to attract (or accommodate) a major league team.

I agree and most posters here would agree. However, I inserted them in my list because that city seems to come often in the discussion, and in that list I wanted to make clear that they are a long way down the list, and not really a candidate for a relocation at this time.

 

[gstommylee]

If I recall Gary Batman said that the NHL doesn't do things based on Symmetry,

They just did with Vegas and Seattle. And its the owners gets to decide things not Bettman.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Nhl fans are funny. The worst major sports league revenue wise and TV viewership wise but wants to expand and relocate franchises like crazy. Makes sense.

 

[Summer Rose]

Nhl fans are funny. The worst major sports league revenue wise and TV viewership wise but wants to expand and relocate franchises like crazy. Makes sense.

It's the whole quantity vs. quality thing. I don't really pay enough attention to the economics of other sports but the NHL isn't the only league with financially dysfunctional franchises I'd assume. Just look at the Rays. I don't know enough to name one in the NBA or NFL (Suns are dysfunctional but not financially I don't think).

 

[Rob]

Off topic but I wish Quebec would host the World Championships again. Forget the NHL.

 

[awfulwaffle]

It's the whole quantity vs. quality thing. I don't really pay enough attention to the economics of other sports but the NHL isn't the only league with financially dysfunctional franchises I'd assume. Just look at the Rays. I don't know enough to name one in the NBA or NFL (Suns are dysfunctional but not financially I don't think).

Why make comments in a business discussion when you claim to have no idea? The report released in 2017 didn't have the suns listed as a team reporting a loss after revenue sharing. And there were a few.

 

[TheLegend]

Why make comments in a business discussion when you claim to have no idea? The report released in 2017 didn't have the suns listed as a team reporting a loss after revenue sharing. And there were a few.

She made a common sense observation.

Every pro sports league has their haves and have nots. Doesn’t take a business degree to know that.

 

[Dread Clawz]

The nhl will stay at 32 for a long time, sorry. Anyone who thinks the owners want a watered down league filled with ahl players is not thinking clearly. Quebec will get another team but it will not be for years and years.

 

[TheLegend]

The nhl will stay at 32 for a long time, sorry. Anyone who thinks the owners want a watered down league filled with ahl players is not thinking clearly. Quebec will get another team but it will not be for years and years.

The “watered down talent” narrative is a bogus one. Always has been.

The only thing that will prevent another expansion is nobody willing to step in and pay the admission fee.

 

[MasterDecoy]

Melnyk doesn’t get enough hate. He has had every department, from scouting to marketing, running on a shoestring budget for years and barely meeting the lowest NHL standards. Melnyk sets the internal budget very low, and if you watched any of their games for the past 10 years you would know any of their successes was based more on luck and divisional weakness rather than a return on investment. Half of their games was Karlsson literally willing them to victory.

Melnyk is a horrible human being and owner no matter what side you’re on. He constantly interferes in team affaires and makes hockey ops decisions when he has no idea what he’s doing. Melnyk took advantage of the Centennial Classic by lining his pockets with the event revenue and then following his pattern of unwarranted interference and making everything about himself, he started publically pooping all over the festivities by threatening relocation. Bettman then had to step in and tell everyone that he was talking out of his hat and Melnyk hasn't opened his yapper about it since like the bratty, rotten child he is. He hired Ukrainian hackers to attack a Sens blogger’s site. He also lost a major portion of his wealth in a nasty divorce and lawsuits on his pharmaceutical company.

Not allowing the loyal Aflredsson to retire a lifelong Sen is an embarrassment by itself. Melnyk didn’t want to give him a one year deal to retire as the most loyal person in the teams history. Melnyk regularly refuses, due to his own financial limitations, to pay players what they're worth and gets rid of them i.e. Spezza, Karlsson, Turris, Duchene, Stone, Dzingel. He gets a kidney from a fan and then fires the person who set up the donation right afterwards. He tried to publicly strong arm the local government to give him a free stadium, and when that backfired he has hid ever since. The Ontario Securities Commission, which apparently has higher standards than the NHL, sanctioned, fined and banned him from the boardroom of his own company for a laundry list of violations. Melnyk has the ownership qualities of a gerbil.

Holy hell that post is hot fire

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Holy hell that post is hot fire

Much like flat Earthers, pro-Melnyk people deserve only the harshest put downs and most prickly euthanasia needles.