Quebec Nordiques: expansion or relocation

[Laveuglette]

Very well, I will drop my two-time loser argument against Quebec; however, I'll maintain the following:

* the perception (correct or not) of Quebec City as a small European-like vacation spot that primarily speaks French. -- who wants that?
* too many Canadian teams already
* Quebec's support (like Edmonton's, Winnipeg's, Hartford's and a few cities') supportof the WHA effectively makes those cities and their fans traitors to the NHL

Are you Don Cherry?

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Very well, I will drop my two-time loser argument against Quebec; however, I'll maintain the following:

* the perception (correct or not) of Quebec City as a small European-like vacation spot that primarily speaks French. -- who wants that?
* too many Canadian teams already
* Quebec's support (like Edmonton's, Winnipeg's, Hartford's and a few cities') supportof the WHA effectively makes those cities and their fans traitors to the NHL

I legitimately do. Relocate LA to Quebec.

 

[Laveuglette]

Pretty sure Peter Stastny still lives here.

Edit: Probably not anymore since he's now doing politics in Europe, but he lived in Québec for a long time.

 

[Killion]

Very well, I will drop my two-time loser argument against Quebec; however, I'll maintain the following:

* the perception (correct or not) of Quebec City as a small European-like vacation spot that primarily speaks French. -- who wants that?
* too many Canadian teams already
* Quebec's support (like Edmonton's, Winnipeg's, Hartford's and a few cities') supportof the WHA effectively makes those cities and their fans traitors to the NHL

.... considering the United Nations like makeup of any given NHL team pretty much since the 80's why would that be a problem or a negative? Surely instead it would be a positive with European's in particular as they'd feel "more at home" than in a more standardized NA city no?... As for language being an issue, you should visit QC rojac. I dont speak a lot of french, been doing business up there since the 70's when reputedly it was even more strict/worse/difficult & much to my pleasant surprise, absolutely no problems.

... I understand your a Contractionist & theoretically so am I, agree, I would much prefer a smaller, much more elite top tier league consisting of maybe 12 teams & global in scale. Not just North America, and only so called "World Class" cities but thats not going to happen anytime soon and the NHL has gone so far down the rabbit hole with Expansion's, Contraction not an option, not on the table at all, so we have to deal with what weve got. And what weve got in QC is one of the cradles of the game, an avid, rabid fanbase, decent enough corporate heft & media platforms to more than make it work, a small but high-end boutique style market. No brainer.

... do you honestly believe that anyone still remaining at the NHL or in ownership who was around back in the 70's is still bearing a grudge against former WHA teams and by rote the markets in which they played out of?.... The only person I can think of who "might", who's still around from those halcyon days is none other than the Chairman of the Board of Governors & who we were talking about earlier, none other than Jeremy Jacobs..... and you know what?... Absolutely that thought, your suggestion has crossed my mind on numerous occasions. It wouldnt surprise me with that one. It wouldnt surprise me to learn that Jacobs is still carrying an axe over the WHA. Its entirely possible. Secondly, I wonder just how supportive the Molsons in Montreal actually might be (publicly all smiles & supportive) and if you follow those links Bell/Rogers & MLSE along with the rest of the Canadian teams.

We just dont know & I dont buy the reasons for turning PKP/Quebecors application down. Doesnt smell right. Do I believe QC will gain re-entry? Absolutely. But what a waste of seasons, years. Money that the League cant recoup in delaying a return on the Nordiques.... And yes, very wise, dropping your argument about Quebec being a "two time loser". Particularly so when A)... not true, not the case at all and B)... I pointed out to you how that term can actually be applied elsewhere, 06 markets included etc where the glove actually does fit & in some cases, 2-3-4X losers.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

I can think of only one city in North America that can support an NHL team.....Seattle.
It's expensive to run an arena and NHL franchise and don't know of any new cities that can do. Certainly there are teams in the league that constantly losing money and are dependent on richer teams for financial support.

I can remember the great Quebec teams in the WHA and the NHL. If Quebec wants a team it would be a better location that many teams that are currently located in the US.

That being said, long term, I don't think Quebec will support an NHL team long term. 15,000 people buying tickets for 41 home games, I don't think their is business support or population that can fund the team.

Love to see the Nordiques back in the NHL though.

 

[Killion]

That being said, long term, I don't think Quebec will support an NHL team long term. 15,000 people buying tickets for 41 home games, I don't think their is business support or population that can fund the team.

Love to see the Nordiques back in the NHL though.

... here are the numbers from the 80's & 90's...

In 1980, the stadium was converted to 15,750 seating capacity, the following are average attendance numbers through the season, the number indicates the season ending year, this the first season is 1980-81:

81:77.6%
82:96.0%
83:95.6%
84:95.1%
85:94.4%
86:93.8%
87:94.1%
88:94.8%
89:92.3%
90:95.7%
91:90.0%
92:86.7%
93:95.1%
94:92.7%
95:91.3%


Link1
Link2

Now for reference on team record, here is how the team did in their division and in playoffs:

81:4th, lost first round
82:4th, lost Conference Finals
83:4th, lost first round
84:3rd, lost second round
85:2nd, lost Conference Finals
86:1st, lost first round
87:4th, lost second round
88:5th, no playoffs
89:5th, no playoffs
90:5th, no playoffs
91:5th, no playoffs
92:5th, no playoffs
93:2nd, lost first round
94:5th, no playoffs
95:1st, lost first round

The issue with the Nordiques was always stadium capacity, not fan attendance.

The new Nordiques capacity of 18,000+ should be an indication that the team will be able to compete quite extensively against other teams and with the NHL when the Nordiques come back.

Just in case some had doubts.

Since then of course youve had cost certainty with the CAP, RS & the CDN$ Equalization program etc. During the period above, the late 80's & 90's, attendance was soft elsewhere (Dead Puck Era etc) yet theres Quebec, happily cruising along in about the midpoint of the league playing to packed houses. They would have been a Top 10 but the old Colisee' only held 15,000 & change. I think your fears are unfounded lifelonghockeyfan. Numbers dont lie, should assauge anyones fears really, and ya, they do have a very robust corporate sector. No problems signing sponsors, leasing out suites.

 

[ForumNamePending]

Very well, I will drop my two-time loser argument against Quebec; however, I'll maintain the following:

* the perception (correct or not) of Quebec City as a small European-like vacation spot that primarily speaks French. -- who wants that?
* too many Canadian teams already
* Quebec's support (like Edmonton's, Winnipeg's, Hartford's and a few cities') supportof the WHA effectively makes those cities and their fans traitors to the NHL

*Folks who enjoy vacationing in Europe and people from Quebec City?
*To get this down to a more palatable number would you be fine with seeing Toronto dropped? Seriously though, this is a reasonable position, or at least it's probably more or less in line with the league's position.
*Suddenly "Quebec is a two-time loser" is no longer the most ridiculous argument.

 

[Lebowski]

Relocation.

NHL expands in Seattle.

Carolina/Florida moves to Quebec eventually.

Balanced conferences.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Relocation.

NHL expands in Seattle.

Carolina/Florida moves to Quebec eventually.

Balanced conferences.

who owns a team in Seattle then, if the price is already 500 M AND THEN THEY'D HAVE TO SET UP AT LEAST 2 MORE TEAMS A LA Vegas;

CAR NOR FLA are moving or being relocated anytime soon

 

[canuckfan75]

I do believe Quebec City will get a team before the end of the next tv deal

 

[NorthStar]

I gotta wonder, how long can Quebec wait patiently? Or just give up and focus on QMJHL with the Remparts there, or so?

 

[powerstuck]

I gotta wonder, how long can Quebec wait patiently? Or just give up and focus on QMJHL with the Remparts there, or so?

Well, we're already focusing on the Remparts (highest CHL crowds for a few years now). Its just that we didn't need a 18k arena for junior hockey. Somewhere in the 12k would have been darn fine and still got us plenty of concerts and what not.

 

[End on a Hinote]

Its just that we didn't need a 18k arena for junior hockey. Somewhere in the 12k would have been darn fine and still got us plenty of concerts and what not.

That's exactly it. I remember back in 04 Don Cherry said that an NHL team will return to Winnipeg because "you don't build a 15,000 seat arena for the AHL."

If that's the case, then you sure as hell don't build a near 19,000 seat arena for junior hockey. And you don't build an arena that size just to take a stab at the NHL, there is more going on.

 

[Hal1971]

I gotta wonder, how long can Quebec wait patiently? Or just give up and focus on QMJHL with the Remparts there, or so?

We dont have control on the wait, sure people will loose interest over time (the 2 preseason games where not sold out this year). Some will give up, but when the big annoucement will be made, everyone who said they give up or lost interest will be back and the Centre Videotron will be packed again! It does not take much to ignite the fire again here....

 

[Hal1971]

Well, we're already focusing on the Remparts (highest CHL crowds for a few years now). Its just that we didn't need a 18k arena for junior hockey. Somewhere in the 12k would have been darn fine and still got us plenty of concerts and what not.

I disagree, The Place Bell in Laval cost 200 millions and it's a 10 000 places. a 12 000 arena would have costed between 200-250 millions. The CV costed 360 Millions. With 12 000, forget most of the show that we saw recently, no metallica, no madonna, no ed sheeran, no pearl jam, no muse and on and on. That's a lot. it's a long term commitment, the arena will be there for a long time, the population of quebec will still grow.

 

[powerstuck]

I disagree, The Place Bell in Laval cost 200 millions and it's a 10 000 places. a 12 000 arena would have costed between 200-250 millions. The CV costed 360 Millions. With 12 000, forget most of the show that we saw recently, no metallica, no madonna, no ed sheeran, no pearl jam, no muse and on and on. That's a lot. it's a long term commitment, the arena will be there for a long time, the population of quebec will still grow.

I am just acting real here. If there was no promise of a potential comeback for the NHL...the arena wouldn't have been built.
I agree, it is something the region and the city needed. But lets be real.

 

[Killion]

I agree, it is something the region and the city needed. But lets be real.

Yeah. Thats way beyond just "smoke".... "wishful thinking"..... They wouldnt have gone all-in like that, no chance. Sounds empty I know but hang in there guys & gals, I'm beyond certain your back in, could happen fast, could take 24-36mnths.

 

[NorthStar]

Ah ok.. then all we can do is wait and hope the NHL wakes up and give Quebec another chance and then we can see the Nordiques return finally and all will be fine.. if only some of the old farts in the NHL would get their heads out of their a**es so to speak and get going on that...

 

[WildGopher]

. . . but when the big annoucement will be made, everyone who said they give up or lost interest will be back and the Centre Videotron will be packed again.

Speaking of the Centre Videotron, I watched part of the Leafs-Canadiens game on TV and am curious what is the vaguely Nordiques-looking logo on the left front side of the neutral zone? It was a red stylized "N" and I couldn't read the smaller word or words below it. Is it a corporate sponsor of the arena or the Remparts, perhaps; or one of Quebecor's subsidiaries? I see some people writing that there might not be enough corporate support in a town of Quebec's size, but there sure were a lot of ads on the ice - more than you see in most NHL rinks.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I see some people writing that there might not be enough corporate support in a town of Quebec's size, but there sure were a lot of ads on the ice - more than you see in most NHL rinks.

All the arenas in the OHL, OMJHL, and WHL have a lot of sponsor logos ads on the ice, so that's the reason for them.

 

[Laveuglette]

The population of Québec is fine to support a NHL team. Plus, the team would not be only followed within the city's borders like a team in the US where hockey is probably the 4th sport in importance. (and that also implies more fans in the city itself; it would be the only important sports team in Québec City) People from Mauricie, Beauce, Saguenay, Lac St-Jean, center of Quebec and even a good chunk of Estrie would be natural fans for the Nordiques. No worries about supporters, seriously. It would be an immediate success. The only reason why the NHL doesn't want us is that we're not in the States; and our era is of the United States' empire.

 

[Shawa666]

Speaking of the Centre Videotron, I watched part of the Leafs-Canadiens game on TV and am curious what is the vaguely Nordiques-looking logo on the left front side of the neutral zone? It was a red stylized "N" and I couldn't read the smaller word or words below it. Is it a corporate sponsor of the arena or the Remparts, perhaps; or one of Quebecor's subsidiaries? I see some people writing that there might not be enough corporate support in a town of Quebec's size, but there sure were a lot of ads on the ice - more than you see in most NHL rinks.

That's a local restaurant chain. They sponsor the Remparts.

 

[Killion]

^^^ Indeed..... Calgary Flames colors.... cryptic... do you believe in coincidence's Shawa?

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

Houston and Seattle as expansion teams. The Flames to Quebec city.
Oilers change name back to "Alberta Oilers".

 

[garbageteam]

the Flames despite the arena kerfuffle isn't even the likeliest Canadian team to relocate, nevermind the likeliest team in the league