Quebec Nordiques: expansion or relocation

[Killion]

Besides the comments from Jacobs, didn't Bettman also say he was disappointed not to have received a bid from Seattle once the application deadline passed? Although maybe those were the comments from Jacobs, because I do remember it was long before Vegas was approved and Quebec City was not.

I cant honestly recall if it was Bettman or Jacobs, went on to say the same thing about Southern Ontario & elsewhere in a sort of excoriating, derisive tone of voice. Like "what happened to all this talk & all these supposedly serious players"?.... Well, when your charging a half a billion dollars just to get in, never mind the costs of arena and putting together a team, administrative & Management, Scouts & Coaches, Farm Teams, players... and the numbers dont pencil out what did they expect?

For Bill Foley & Vegas it was purely a vanity purchase, bought in on emotion, justified the price later on flawed logic. He also had MGM & AEG building, paying for an arena so the hit not quite so heavy. As it was, only LV & QC applying. $500M when teams have sold for less than half that within the last 5-6yrs, I mean, come on here. The "Ballmer Effect". NBA Clippers sale. They priced themselves out of reach of just about everywhere including Southern Ontario. Pure unadulterated greed & the only willing buyers were Bill Foley & QC. Serious roll of the dice for the former, justifiable with Quebecor given the history of the game in the region, integration of the Nordiques with their media interests, extremely high demand despite a smallish market, had/have a brand new state of the art arena, natural rivalries with Montreal etc. No brainer. Yet here we are. Whistling up a dark alley.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I cant honestly recall if it was Bettman or Jacobs, went on to say the same thing about Southern Ontario & elsewhere in a sort of excoriating, derisive tone of voice. Like "what happened to all this talk & all these supposedly serious players"?.... Well, when your charging a half a billion dollars just to get in, never mind the costs of arena and putting together a team, administrative & Management, Scouts & Coaches, Farm Teams, players... and the numbers dont pencil out what did they expect?

For Bill Foley & Vegas it was purely a vanity purchase, bought in on emotion, justified the price later on flawed logic. He also had MGM & AEG building, paying for an arena so the hit not quite so heavy. As it was, only LV & QC applying. $500M when teams have sold for less than half that within the last 5-6yrs, I mean, come on here. The "Ballmer Effect". NBA Clippers sale. They priced themselves out of reach of just about everywhere including Southern Ontario. Pure unadulterated greed & the only willing buyers were Bill Foley & QC. Serious roll of the dice for the former, justifiable with Quebecor given the history of the game in the region, integration of the Nordiques with their media interests, extremely high demand despite a smallish market, had/have a brand new state of the art arena, natural rivalries with Montreal etc. No brainer. Yet here we are. Whistling up a dark alley.

Going back to the Canadian Dollar factor I remember at the time it was brought up as a reason why Quebec City was not given a team. I want to say it was between 72 - 74 cents during the expansion process. However as of today it's at 81 cents. Now I realize that could change and drop depending on a number of factors. Still if it remains in the 80's and if it went even higher, there goes another reason why Quebec City should not have team.

 

[Killion]

Going back to the Canadian Dollar factor I remember at the time it was brought up as a reason why Quebec City was not given a team. I want to say it was between 72 - 74 cents during the expansion process. However as of today it's at 81 cents. Now I realize that could change and drop depending on a number of factors. Still if it remains in the 80's and if it went even higher, there goes another reason why Quebec City should not have team.

Right. Thats another false equivalent. Reason given for denying QC. Player salaries & a considerable number of expenses are indeed paid in US$ so its a concern, absolutely, However, Quebecor, PKP, this is not some Mickey Mouse operation subject to the fluctuations & vagaries of the CDN$. Their worth billions. They invest in the international money markets in order to hedge against the rising & falling CDN$ against the US Green Back, the Euro & other monetary equivalents. So no, sorry, that doesnt hold water either. Furthermore if required, there's the Canadian $ Equalization Program which the NHL enacted back in the 90's. Problem? No problem. Quebec has that excuse double indemnified.

 

[WaW]

Yeah I seem to recall hearing him say that however "increasing the odds" in building an arena is no guarantee you'll get a team yet..... that seems rather disingenuous, a sort of double standard at play given how Bettman & Daly have been proactive in Seattle. Meeting with City & County Officials. Potential ownership groups & so on. They didnt meet with the City of Quebec or anyone else up there as far as I know when the whole debate over building a replacement for the Colisee' was going on. Quebec needed a new arena regardless, originally tied into a possible Olympic bid and when that was dropped they proceeded, obviously the hope being that eventually they'd land an NHL franchise....

As for "what else do they need to do"?.... Theyve seemingly done everything they can at least publicly & from a business perspective. Followed the NHL's processes, they havent gone after any teams in trouble with hostile relocation attempts, like Winnipeg had done bided their time, quietly lobbying, no public pronouncements or demands, no criticisms of the NHL etc. Quebecor dropped a tonne on french language broadcast rights, content for TVA & their other french language media platforms. Theyve' really done everything right & theres not a lot more they can do if they stick to the NHL's general policies, dont rock the boat, dont go after a team in trouble, dont be stating anything in public thats been discussed, behave & then "maybe".

So while Quebec's done all it can, absolutely beyond NHL ready, no criticism of the NHL subsequent to being turned down while Vegas receives a team, the NHL, namely Jeremy Jacobs, starts shooting his mouth off to reporters, publicly. How he's "disappointed that we didnt receive applications from Seattle, Houston, Southern Ontario" and so on. Goes on to suggest "grave concerns with the CDN$ and Quebec", that Conference Alignments a major issue, how awarding a team to QC "does nothing to grow the game" and that its small market. All criticism's that not only ring hollow, are untrue, but criticisms that can easily be disassembled, deconstructed & destroyed. Utter nonsense. Conference alignment an obstacle sure but its fixable, man made construct. No ones talking about rearranging the planets in our solar system for Gods sake. To even address Jacobs statements is to reward duplicity & stupidity with dignity & he doesnt deserve it, doesnt deserve any respect yet... play the game one must, and so here we are. Stuck in neutral. No one from Quebecor's group screaming Blue Murder as they might want to for fear of ticking off the NHL, winding up Blackballed altogether. Nasty, unjust, absolutely irrational situation.

I kinda think part of the reason they've been so much more proactive with Seattle and cryptic with QC is that they see a growth opportunity and therefore potentially crazy revenues in Seattle, while in QC they see a market that will probably work, but one that is already full of NHL hockey fans who support other teams and therefore putting a team there really wouldn't grow anything.

I think this is also why Bettman and the NHL execs wouldn't be overly upset if Calgary lost the Flames to relocation, and I wouldn't be all that surprised if they secretly want the Flames out, as the thinking is that Canadians will watch and support the NHL no matter what.

Disclaimer: I want a team in QC and don't think the Flames will move nor do I want them to, I'm just stating my opinion on what I think the league is thinking.

 

[BattleBorn]

I kinda think part of the reason they've been so much more proactive with Seattle and cryptic with QC is that they see a growth opportunity and therefore potentially crazy revenues in Seattle, while in QC they see a market that will probably work, but one that is already full of NHL hockey fans who support other teams and therefore putting a team there really wouldn't grow anything.

I think this is also why Bettman and the NHL execs wouldn't be overly upset if Calgary lost the Flames to relocation, and I wouldn't be all that surprised if they secretly want the Flames out, as the thinking is that Canadians will watch and support the NHL no matter what.

Disclaimer: I want a team in QC and don't think the Flames will move nor do I want them to, I'm just stating my opinion on what I think the league is thinking.

I personally think we all spend a little too much time looking for things that aren't there. While I agree that Canada is about as monetized as it can get at this point with the TV deal and avid fandom everywhere, I don't know that it's what's driving what's going on.

Quebecor is still the same company it was before with fairly small margins and a concentration on media. A CDN$650MM investment in an asset that isn't easy to sell and also has small margins was never going to be a great move. It's a good long term investment, but if they ever need to turn the team into cash due to some unforeseen circumstance, there's a potential it would take years to find a buyer in QC. I think that has a lot more to do with the Nordiques sitting on the sideline than the desire to grow the US market. I think the perfect scenario for QC is to have some other group come up with a good portion of the money to get into the game and have Quebecor act as the minority partner and media partner. It gets Quebecor out from under a huge debt load that will take years to appreciate and gets them the programming to increase their revenues within their core business, media.

When it comes down to things that can increase revenues a lot, teams in Seattle and Houston definitely have a greater chance, but they wind up chasing the same dragon they've chased for years doing that.

I think the NHL will do whatever it can to push a new arena in Calgary, and I think they'll do whatever they can to keep the team in Calgary if it really comes down to a stalemate. I think we're seeing the first or second volley of fire in a battle that may go on for five years.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I kinda think part of the reason they've been so much more proactive with Seattle and cryptic with QC is that they see a growth opportunity and therefore potentially crazy revenues in Seattle, while in QC they see a market that will probably work, but one that is already full of NHL hockey fans who support other teams and therefore putting a team there really wouldn't grow anything.

I think this is also why Bettman and the NHL execs wouldn't be overly upset if Calgary lost the Flames to relocation, and I wouldn't be all that surprised if they secretly want the Flames out, as the thinking is that Canadians will watch and support the NHL no matter what.

Disclaimer: I want a team in QC and don't think the Flames will move nor do I want them to, I'm just stating my opinion on what I think the league is thinking.

My guess is this was not an option at the time but prior to Atlanta moving to Winnipeg why didn't the NHL try to get them in Seattle instead? As you said since Quebec City will work wouldn't that same thought be said about Winnipeg? Now I also remember no other city in the United States wanted the Thrashers and Winnipeg was their only option, still I think if Bettman had a choice he would have moved them to any city in the United States and avoid Winnipeg at all costs.

 

[WaW]

My guess is this was not an option at the time but prior to Atlanta moving to Winnipeg why didn't the NHL try to get them in Seattle instead? As you said since Quebec City will work wouldn't that same thought be said about Winnipeg? Now I also remember no other city in the United States wanted the Thrashers and Winnipeg was their only option, still I think if Bettman had a choice he would have moved them to any city in the United States and avoid Winnipeg at all costs.

You answered your own question there haha. I think that's absolutely right though. Winnipeg got incredibly lucky that the Thrashers situation got as dire as it did when it did. Timing was everything, just like it essentially needs to be for Quebec. It was either Winnipeg or the potential embarrassment of a franchise actually folding. I think Quebec will need for Seattle to already have expansion announced, and have a team in a weak financial state go into crisis before the NHL starts really looking at and doing work in markets like Houston, Austin, Portland, and San Diego like they did in Seattle. That's the only way I see Quebec City getting a relocation franchise.

 

[ForumNamePending]

Ya, like I've said before (probably earlier in this thread), Quebec's only shot is a Winnipeg type situation where the NHL is left with two options... A) Franchise moving to Quebec B) Franchise folding

 

[KevFu]

Ya, like I've said before (probably earlier in this thread), Quebec's only shot is a Winnipeg type situation where the NHL is left with two options... A) Franchise moving to Quebec B) Franchise folding

I don't think it's that bleak for QC.

Quebec is going to get another NHL team. It's a matter of when.

Quebec will be team #33 if no one moves.
Quebec will be team #32 if an easter team moves to Houston/Seattle/Portland.

Quebec won't get to join the NHL if it makes the Eastern Conference +2 over the size of the Western Conference.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I don't think it's that bleak for QC.

Quebec is going to get another NHL team. It's a matter of when.

Quebec will be team #33 if no one moves.
Quebec will be team #32 if an easter team moves to Houston/Seattle/Portland.

Quebec won't get to join the NHL if it makes the Eastern Conference +2 over the size of the Western Conference.

Assuming Seattle gets an expansion team which means we have an even 16 teams in the Eastern Conference and 16 in the Western Conference, doesn't it make more sense if a team already in the Eastern Conference moved to Quebec City. Using the Florida Panthers as an example this way they can stay in the Eastern Conference and Atlantic Division, so there is no need for realignment.

If Quebec City was given an expansion team and it made them the 33rd NHL team, we are back to having one more team in the Eastern Conference.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Assuming Seattle gets an expansion team which means we have an even 16 teams in the Eastern Conference and 16 in the Western Conference, doesn't it make more sense if a team already in the Eastern Conference moved to Quebec City. Using the Florida Panthers as an example this way they can stay in the Eastern Conference and Atlantic Division, so there is no need for realignment.

If Quebec City was given an expansion team and it made them the 33rd NHL team, we are back to having one more team in the Eastern Conference.

So then expand again to Houston and Quebec. That's 34.


Then add 2 in the west: Portland and Kansas City. That's 36 and all the travel problems are taken care of.

 

[KevFu]

Assuming Seattle gets an expansion team which means we have an even 16 teams in the Eastern Conference and 16 in the Western Conference, doesn't it make more sense if a team already in the Eastern Conference moved to Quebec City. Using the Florida Panthers as an example this way they can stay in the Eastern Conference and Atlantic Division, so there is no need for realignment.

If Quebec City was given an expansion team and it made them the 33rd NHL team, we are back to having one more team in the Eastern Conference.

So then expand again to Houston and Quebec. That's 34.

Then add 2 in the west: Portland and Kansas City. That's 36 and all the travel problems are taken care of.

Right. Yes, MLF, it "makes sense" to have Quebec be the relocation spot of an EC team if one has to move. But we talk about teams relocating on this site about seven billion times more frequently than teams actually move. There have been 9 relocations since World War II.


The NHL had no problem with a short-term imbalance of 16 EC/15 WC, knowing the league would eventually expand.

As such, it makes no sense to worry about having a 34th market before adding Quebec. You can add Quebec right after you get 32 know that eventually, Seattle, Houston, Portland, Kansas City, whomever is eventually going to happen.

 

[powerstuck]

And you can't see any logic in choosing a new NHL market over a two-time failure? And not even the more successful two-time failure -- after all, Atlanta teams played more years in the NHL than Quebec teams.

Frankly, I suspect that Quebecor got cold feet about buying a franchise and the whole deferred application is the NHL helping Quebecor save face with Quebecois.

Lets just forget what happened to most WHA teams.

Also rojac, my personal wish would be for you to have a signature expressing how much you hate Quebec.

Nothing personal but it is as annoying to read your same old ''two failures'' theory as anyone wishing for Coyotes, Hurricanes, Panthers, etc to move.

 

[Acesolid]

Lets just forget what happened to most WHA teams.

Also rojac, my personal wish would be for you to have a signature expressing how much you hate Quebec.

Nothing personal but it is as annoying to read your same old ''two failures'' theory as anyone wishing for Coyotes, Hurricanes, Panthers, etc to move.

And the ''two failures'' thing is especially ridiculous because the ''first failure'' was 100 years ago. At the same time the Québec Bulldogs were relocated, the Representatives of Italy, France, the United Kingdom and Japan were meeting to determine the League of Nations mandates for administration of territories following the partitioning of the Ottoman Empire and THE POPULATION OF LAS VEGAS WAS 2,304!

AND The first game of Negro National League baseball was played in Indianapolis, Indiana.

AND Arthur Meighen became Canada's ninth prime minister.

AND Edmonton's population was 60,000 souls! Calgary's was 56,514.

I say Las Vegas should have their team stripped from them because it had a population of 2,304 in 1920!

 

[Killion]

And the ''two failures'' thing is especially ridiculous because the ''first failure'' was 100 years ago....

AND The first game of Negro National League baseball was played in Indianapolis, Indiana.

AND Arthur Meighen became Canada's ninth prime minister.

AND Edmonton's population was 60,000 souls! Calgary's was 56,514.

I say Las Vegas should have their team stripped from them because it had a population of 2,304 in 1920!

... fun post. should be over on the HOH Board however..... Points taken. Just a tad disingenuous to state that "big league hockey failed twice in QC" when in fact no, it did not, didnt even fail once. What did happen was that the NHA/NHL failed QC in 1916/1917 through 1920, then again in the 1990's when it lost the Nordiques to yet again, more skullduggery by ownership & the NHL itself. Long & twisted tale of the Bulldogs & Athletics, of Eddie Livingstone in Toronto, the creation of the NHL itself, Quebec ownerships refusal to agree not to setup a rival league with the NHL.

The eventual transfer of the franchise to Hamilton Ontario (a city that in 1920 was app the same size as QC) which was done to block Livingstone from setting up shop in Southern Ontario with a rival league & just on & on. Long & sordid story... Most here more than familiar with what went down with the notorious Marcel Aubut, the team ripped from asunder & moved to Colorado.... That was all on Aubut & the League. Ya, needed a new building. But c'mon here. Coulda been done eventually. The only panic was the one created by Aubut & the League.

And yes, if we follow the ill logic that teams shouldnt be returned to markets that at one time failed, then the Penguins, Flyers, Blues, Sharks, Montreal Canadiens (original franchise failed as did the Wanderers & Maroons) & Toronto Maple Leafs (3 incarnations, teams failed), Detroit Red Wings (the Cougars bought out of Receivership by Big Jim Norris), Ottawa, the Islanders now in Brooklyn (Americans) should all be given the boot, the record books expunged, history re-written. The Atlanta Thrashers & Colorado Avalanche would never have existed/exist. And if you really wanna go to town, every single former PCHA & NHA club/market also turning in their franchises so say goodbye to Vancouver & forget about Seattle & Portland.

 

[ForumNamePending]

I don't think it's that bleak for QC.

Quebec is going to get another NHL team. It's a matter of when.

Quebec will be team #33 if no one moves.
Quebec will be team #32 if an easter team moves to Houston/Seattle/Portland.

Quebec won't get to join the NHL if it makes the Eastern Conference +2 over the size of the Western Conference.

To be honest, beyond being a last resort for an existing franchise on the brink, I don't think the NHL has any interest in Quebec City.

...And if the Coyotes ever do have to move and the choice is Quebec City or Seattle....we all know where the team is headed.

And you can't see any logic in choosing a new NHL market over a two-time failure?...

And the ''two failures'' thing is especially ridiculous because the ''first failure'' was 100 years ago.

Digging up something from a century ago is ridiculous, but the thing I find most amusing about the "new market like Seattle over a two-time failure" argument is that Seattle isn't a new market. Using the same silly standard, much like Quebec, big league hockey clubs have failed twice in Seattle.

 

[WildGopher]

Going back to the Canadian Dollar factor I remember at the time it was brought up as a reason why Quebec City was not given a team. I want to say it was between 72 - 74 cents during the expansion process. However as of today it's at 81 cents. Now I realize that could change and drop depending on a number of factors. Still if it remains in the 80's and if it went even higher, there goes another reason why Quebec City should not have team.

Picking 73 cents as the midpoint in your recollection of what the CND was, the improvement to 81 cents would save Quebecor approx. $40 million today. While that's significant, it won't dent the long-term debt load much. Maybe if the spread doubles, it would get another real close look. I hope something breaks for Quebec. It's ridiculous for the NHL not to be there.

 

[Killion]

Picking 73 cents as the midpoint in your recollection of what the CND was, the improvement to 81 cents would save Quebecor approx. $40 million today. While that's significant, it won't dent the long-term debt load much. Maybe if the spread doubles, it would get another real close look. I hope something breaks for Quebec. It's ridiculous for the NHL not to be there.

Agreed.... Seems a lot of people completely ignorant, unaware of the International Monetary Fund. That businesses & wealthy individual, major brokerage houses World ****ing Wide trade in dollars. Blows my mind that so shallow an excuse would be trotted out as reason to object to let alone reject Quebec City, Pierre Karl Peladeau & Quebecor. Beggars belief. That anyone would be so ignorant as to think that a guy worth whats he's worth & a company the size of Quebecor wouldnt be availing themselves of such...

I dont even know what to say. And what I would say to those who do trot it out beyond inflammatory as to their just general ignorance of how it is that big money works, operates. Instead they buy into Neanderthal Jeremy Jacobs guff and you know what? That is beyond pathetic, sad. Its a false excuse. Fake. Your being faked out, buying it. But I guess once someones minds made up & a LIE repeated oft enough, gonna believe it. Pathetic. That guys net worth, his companies, shame well over half the leagues ownership groups. Yet we "need to be worried about this" do we? Unbelievable.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

If Jeremy Jacobs has the influence on Gary and the board that many here purport, then I can't help but think of that scene in season 5 of Breaking Bad when an entrapped Skyler (Quebec City) tells Walter White (Jeremy Jacobs) that she is waiting for him to die so she and the kids can live their lives in safety and peace (get an NHL team).

 

[Killion]

If Jeremy Jacobs has the influence on Gary and the board that many here purport, then I can't help but think of that scene in season 5 of Breaking Bad when an entrapped Skyler (Quebec City) tells Walter White (Jeremy Jacobs) that she is waiting for him to die so she and the kids can live their lives in safety and peace (get an NHL team).

I'm not "making it up", yes he does (have the kind of control) and ya, calling the shots. Chairman of the BOG's. Its an Autocracy. Jacobs Rules. He along with the NHL outside Council (of which Gary Bettman is a former employee & disciple prior to joining the NBA) Proskauer Rose LLC.... which also represents MLB, the NFL & the NBA... all a very cozy club. Shoot first, ask questions later. LOCKOUT your first move when dealing with CBA's etc. This guy (Jacobs) is not good for the game, not good for the business of the game, definitely not good for the players nor for the fans. A more sophisticated yet singularly ham handed version of Dollar Bill Wirtz, his father Arthur & before that, James Jr. & Sr. Norris going clear on back to the 1930's.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

I'm not "making it up", yes he does (have the kind of control) and ya, calling the shots. Chairman of the BOG's. Its an Autocracy. Jacobs Rules. He along with the NHL outside Council (of which Gary Bettman is a former employee & disciple prior to joining the NBA) Proskauer Rose LLC.... which also represents MLB, the NFL & the NBA... all a very cozy club. Shoot first, ask questions later. LOCKOUT your first move when dealing with CBA's etc. This guy (Jacobs) is not good for the game, not good for the business of the game, definitely not good for the players nor for the fans. A more sophisticated yet singularly ham handed version of Dollar Bill Wirtz, his father Arthur & before that, James Jr. & Sr. Norris going clear on back to the 1930's.

So then we simply wait for father time to do his work. Unless of course there is another Wirtz or Jacobs within the owner ranks.

 

[Killion]

So then we simply wait for father time to do his work. Unless of course there is another Wirtz or Jacobs within the owner ranks.

That truly is "the question" as it relates to Quebec & elsewhere as the NHL moves into the 21st Century b&g. Jacobs is a self-dealing Dictator. Bettman & Daly his dual headed Hydra's, his Igor's. Worst case scenario; Jacobs spoiled self-entitled Son assumes the mantle of Leadership, Bill Daly rising to Commissioner, no change in the dynamic. Best case scenario's... well, Blue Skys's, some enlightment... Hope for the latter yes but prepare for the former, worst case scenario...

I absolutely despise Jeremy Jacobs, the Soviet style Politburo he's had instituted under Bettman who follows orders, takes direction. And like all Socialist Systems, innovation, imagination & creativity stagnates. Its just not possible when the leader & his minions are self-dealing, playing politics, looking to curry favor, gain one upmanship. Disagree with them, with Jacobs or his mouthpiece Bettman & your marginalized, outcast. Essentially, distilled down, their Bullies. All about Jeremy. Punk Ass pretentious P.O.S. in my book....

Sorry to be harsh but facts, whats gone on, whats going on, I find extremely unjust, distasteful. Absolutely zero integrity, honesty, vision. I grew up loving the game, weaned on it, came "this close" to playing pro. But it was all a myth, a lie. That what went on 40-50-60-70yrs ago is still going on I find horrific. Just a bit more sophisticated but... same thing. Over & over & over again. They have not learned from their mistakes.... How could this be? Simple. Corruption breeds corruption. The very tenets upon which the professional game was founded compromised, born in a shotgun hurricane. One can hope for change but dont bank on it.

 

[WildGopher]

I'm not "making it up", yes he does (have the kind of control) and ya, calling the shots. Chairman of the BOG's. Its an Autocracy. Jacobs Rules. He along with the NHL outside Council (of which Gary Bettman is a former employee & disciple prior to joining the NBA) Proskauer Rose LLC.... which also represents MLB, the NFL & the NBA... all a very cozy club. Shoot first, ask questions later. LOCKOUT your first move when dealing with CBA's etc. This guy (Jacobs) is not good for the game, not good for the business of the game, definitely not good for the players nor for the fans. A more sophisticated yet singularly ham handed version of Dollar Bill Wirtz, his father Arthur & before that, James Jr. & Sr. Norris going clear on back to the 1930's.

The irony of this these facts coming up on the Quebec thread is that the NHL's arrogance and autocratic style is what led to some of the success of the WHA (which ultimately brought teams like the Nordiques into the NHL) in the first place. Look which teams got hurt right away by multiple player jumps to the new league: There were players who couldn't wait to get away from Chicago (Wirtz) and Boston, in particular. Boston won Cups in '70 and '72, but lost enough players to the WHA to fall a notch below afterward. Same with Chicago, which had come within a whisker of a couple Cups around the same time. Both faded after that. Players had been stuck playing for troglodyte owners until '72, when the sense of freedom must have been palpable for those who got away to the new league.

The NHL should have gotten some modesty after that, and maybe some owners did. But if they truly learned their lessons, they'd be looking out for fans and players' interest, along with their own, by rewarding devoted hockey fans in places like QC, creating the new jobs an expansion team would bring, and not asking $500 million for the priviledge just to artificially drive up their franchise values.

Since his team was one of those hurt by the type of NHL owner arrogance that helped jump-stary the WHA, you'd think Jacobs would avoid those kinds of statements questioning whether QC is ready to have a team.

All he has to do is to look at the success in Winnipeg to see it's a no-brainer. They're ready.

 

[Killion]

Since his team was one of those hurt by the type of NHL owner arrogance that helped jump-stary the WHA, you'd think Jacobs would avoid those kinds of statements questioning whether QC is ready to have a team.

From what I understand Jeremy Jacobs' "mentor", the man he looked up to, sought advice from & patterned himself after was Arthur (1901/83) Wirtz. So without going into a major dissertation on the life & times of King Arthur & the Chicago Blackhawks, Bobby Hull, the WHA etc.... that should pretty much tell you plenty about Jeremy Jacobs & where his heads at.

 

[rojac]

Very well, I will drop my two-time loser argument against Quebec; however, I'll maintain the following:

* the perception (correct or not) of Quebec City as a small European-like vacation spot that primarily speaks French. -- who wants that?
* too many Canadian teams already
* Quebec's support (like Edmonton's, Winnipeg's, Hartford's and a few cities') supportof the WHA effectively makes those cities and their fans traitors to the NHL