World Cup: QF: Uruguay vs. France, 7/6/2018

[Bon Esprit]

Hey! We have emotions...well we've heard of them...ok we've heard of anger, but that's an emotion...right?

I am half Prussian, half Lower Saxon. We don't have emotions.

 

[Eisen]

Unlike many I actually see the unspectacular way France dispatches its opponent these days as one of their strengths. I know that people will moan about how they're not playing beautifully and too defensive, but the most attractive side almost never wins a tournament. Organization always beats creativity in this sport.

It's not like they are playing ultradefensive, they have strikers up front who can score on their own (even though I still prefer if they had one guy in the midfield who feeds them). And sound defense is not a bad strategy, it's just unspectacular, mostly.

 

[Stray Wasp]

Unlike many I actually see the unspectacular way France dispatches its opponent these days as one of their strengths. I know that people will moan about how they're not playing beautifully and too defensive, but the most attractive side almost never wins a tournament. Organization always beats creativity in this sport.

Mind, you can win marrying organisation and creativity. The French themselves proved that in 2000, and while I know some dispute that Spain's style from 2008 and 2010 was 'creative', it fits my description of the term. By 2012 perhaps the possession game was more methodical.

No doubt about it- Uruguay is not a team anyone should expect to be able to waltz through. Beating them is an achievement enough.

 

[cgf]

...which is literally the point of this midfield. Do you want Kanté to dribble around 9 opponents and score? He dominated winning balls, Pogba dominated with it as his feet.

...when did we go back to the 60s or late 80s/early 90s?

Midfield play has become a little more sophisticated than just winning the ball back since the first Center half wandered into the opposition half of the pitch & sparked a revolution...

 

[Eisen]

You forgot Luis Fernandez!

He was a step behind the other three in my opinion.

 

[cgf]

You will play Belgium, not Bazil.

Doubt it, I'm still a little surprised Belgium didn't knock themselves out against Japan

 

[le_sean]

huh? I missed much of the first half visiting my folks, but the Uruguayan midfield didn't look outclassed at all in the second half...especially with the way they started to come out of their shell before that deflating 2nd goal & bad substitution.

If Tabarez had trusted those kids more & let them play with some courage from the start of the tourney...so that they had real confidence in one another by this point...this could've been a very different match. But Tabarez "played it safe" and played himself at this tourney.


As opposed to referencing more than a single match to judge those young Uruguayan midfielders?

Okay you’re all right then. Uruguay has an awesome midfield. One scoring chance from a set piece header by a defender, but the midfield was really good.

 

[NyQuil]

He was a step behind the other three in my opinion.

It's le Carré Magique not le Triangle Magique.

 

[GKJ]

Uruguay seems like they’re like a Finland in hockey where they’re always good but never quite make it

 

[N o o d l e s]

Okay you’re all right then. Uruguay has an awesome midfield. One scoring chance from a set piece header by a defender, but the midfield was really good.

Not good today. Bright, young and talented still....which was my point.

 

[Eisen]

It's le Carré Magique not le Triangle Magique.

I remember, just saying.

 

[NyQuil]

I remember, just saying.

I'm just having fun saying French words.

 

[Suiteness]

Okay, I guess Giroud/Griezmann/Mbappe suck because it’s not Pele/Garrincha/Pepe?

Well Giroud sucks period, Griezman seems off this tournament (but he still has three goals to show for it) and while Mbappé has been the best of the three he clearly still is a work in progress.

 

[Eisen]

I'm just having fun saying French words.

Naturellement.

 

[ScottishCanuck]

Glad the referee booked Mbappé for that display. It's been ridiculous in this world cup and needs to be nipped in the bud. I lose respect for a player regardless of how talented they are when they carry on like that.

Fairly comfortable for France. Uruguay are organised but didn't carry much of a threat, especially without Cavani.

 

[GunkWinger]

Little bummed so I'll keep it short. Great win by France. I wish them luck. Griezmann is now Uruguayan so maybe I'll root for France to win it all. Not our best game but not our worst. Cavani would have made a difference but not sure the outcome would have been different. Congratz Evilo!

 

[cgf]

Bentancur looked good, I didn't get that either. Did he want to protect him from the second yellow? He needs to score a goal first.

We have to remember that Tabarez is a coward. He even tried out the kids in a more proactive style before the tourney to great effect. But that's not his instinct & so once the pressure was on he reverted to the more conservative style that he's used to. And taking Bentancur off at that moment was just another example of his antiquated beliefs rearing their ugly head. He was scared of trusting the kid & that outdated idea that the best way to get a goal is to just keep thumping aimless crosses into the box until one works out, completely guided his thinking with bringing Rodriguez on for a midfielder at that point.

I really hate this kind of thing in modern coaches & it's why I'm still pissed that Gladbach didn't replace Hecking because he did this shit all of the time & cost them so many points in matches that they had started well & taken the lead in...before shifting away from the style they were used to try & "protect the result"; which invariably would lead to an equalizer or go ahead goal for the opponents which would convince Hecking that it was time to thump cross into the box until time ran out and the points were lost for good.

[/mini coaching rant]

 

[cgf]

Sad to see Uruguay eliminated as they have that whatever it takes mentality that you love to see from an underdog nation, but France are the better team and fully deserved to move on.

Can make a case now that the 3 best teams are all on this side or the bracket now.

I can't believe in Belgium until I see them beat a big team. They've just been eliminated by such unimpressive sides at their previous tourneys and have done nothing so far dissuade me from my pessimism about them at this tourney. So I have to have Croatia ahead of them in the top 3 with France & Brazil.

 

[cgf]

Okay you’re all right then. Uruguay has an awesome midfield. One scoring chance from a set piece header by a defender, but the midfield was really good.

If you bothered to read my post instead of just making a snarky reply, you'd realize that I've spent most of my time in this thread lambasting the Uruguayan coach for how he deployed their midfield talent.

...but I understand that that is a lot of work to ask of a frenchman, and that it is my responsibility as a german to spoonfeed things to you

 

[Turtleneck Plek]

It'll be interesting to see what DD does in the SF. Tolisso had a good, composed game and has more quality going forward than Matuidi. Then again, Matuidi was instrumental in two goals against Argentina. I'm a big fan of Tolisso, but I expect Matuidi to be back to mark Neymar/De Bruyne.

 

[Eisen]

We have to remember that Tabarez is a coward. He even tried out the kids in a more proactive style before the tourney to great effect. But that's not his instinct & so once the pressure was on he reverted to the more conservative style that he's used to. And taking Bentancur off at that moment was just another example of his antiquated beliefs rearing their ugly head. He was scared of trusting the kid & that outdated idea that the best way to get a goal is to just keep thumping aimless crosses into the box until one works out, completely guided his thinking with bringing Rodriguez on for a midfielder at that point.

I really hate this kind of thing in modern coaches & it's why I'm still pissed that Gladbach didn't replace Hecking because he did this **** all of the time & cost them so many points in matches that they had started well & taken the lead in...before shifting away from the style they were used to try & "protect the result"; which invariably would lead to an equalizer or go ahead goal for the opponents which would convince Hecking that it was time to thump cross into the box until time ran out and the points were lost for good.

[/mini coaching rant]

You're a Gladbach guy?
I don't kow if it's that easy to explain. Coaches have to see it too. They spend hours infront of the telly and send scouts to games to analyse. There is something to say about pressure on the young guys but I don't think it has a paralysing effect. So often have we seen young guys eager to prove themselves play up. I can't tell you what it is. But fear? Likely he will loses if he coaches with fear and that would mean it's on his tactics and he would be the biggest scapegoat. I'm generally with you, play youngsters (if they deserve it, it doesn't mean cut all vets) and play a good system. I'd like to think that a coach knows his mistakes and can see them. But sometimes I don't know.

 

[cgf]

Uruguay seems like they’re like a Finland in hockey where they’re always good but never quite make it

Maybe at the WC, since WWII, but I'm pretty sure they roll through the Copa with regularity even now.

 

[cgf]

You're a Gladbach guy?
I don't kow if it's that easy to explain. Coaches have to see it too. They spend hours infront of the telly and send scouts to games to analyse. There is something to say about pressure on the young guys but I don't think it has a paralysing effect. So often have we seen young guys eager to prove themselves play up. I can't tell you what it is. But fear? Likely he will loses if he coaches with fear and that would mean it's on his tactics and he would be the biggest scapegoat. I'm generally with you, play youngsters (if they deserve it, it doesn't mean cut all vets) and play a good system. I'd like to think that a coach knows his mistakes and can see them. But sometimes I don't know.

I'm a DDR-born (barely lol, spring of '89), 3rd generation Union Berlin fan who has long ago accepted that if we ever get even 1 season in the top flight, I will need to marry an american woman so that I can move back to Berlin for a full year without losing my greencard because it'll probably never happen again in my lifetime

But I enjoy Gladbach most of all BuLi1 clubs...as a kid, my uncle had many tapes from the 70s that he started collecting obsessively after reunification, watching those, I fell in love with Netzer & the BMG of his day...while Favre turned me onto the modern iteration & the immense respect I have for Eberl has kept me hooked. It also doesn't hurt that some of my friends who are working in the industry have passed through BMG in their careers or worked closely with them on certain projects & gushed about their experiences.

I think Hecking actually understands these gripes I have & if the three of us sat down over some beers in the offseason he might be the first to point out how these are things he wants to change in the club for next season...but in the heat of the moment those conservative-instincts will kick in & I dunno how much any of us can really consciously suppress instincts that are buried so deep in our psyches. As Hecking has been coaching for ages with the "protect the result" mindset...that goes hand in hand with trusting more experienced players who are less error prone & less spectacular...rather than the "secure the result" mindset that fits more with trusting youth & creativity to play proactively.

And I see the exact same thing happening with Tabarez wanting to play a more proactive & youth-oriented style, as they showed before the tourney, but then when the pressure kicked in & instincts took over he reverted to the "tried & tested" & made the "safe" decision; which ultimately prevented his team from having a real chance to play with France...like they had the talent to potentially do, if he had trusted himself & those kids to stick with the "less Uruguayan" style of play that they showed in the build-up to the tourney.

 

[gary69]

Job well done, onto the "de facto" final next for France then. Two best teams left will play in that semi.

 

[Stray Wasp]

You're a Gladbach guy?
I don't kow if it's that easy to explain. Coaches have to see it too. They spend hours infront of the telly and send scouts to games to analyse. There is something to say about pressure on the young guys but I don't think it has a paralysing effect. So often have we seen young guys eager to prove themselves play up. I can't tell you what it is. But fear? Likely he will loses if he coaches with fear and that would mean it's on his tactics and he would be the biggest scapegoat. I'm generally with you, play youngsters (if they deserve it, it doesn't mean cut all vets) and play a good system. I'd like to think that a coach knows his mistakes and can see them. But sometimes I don't know.

Back in Euro 92 when Graham Taylor replaced Lineker with Alam Smith against Sweden, I heard for the first time the proposition that when under pressure, coaches will always fall back on their true beliefs.

While that notion hasn't held true on certain occasions it mostly does.

I also think that once a coach fears for their job they expend so much energy defending themselves they tend to lose their ability to see the woods for the trees.