OT: PyeongChang 2018 Olympics

[Drivesaitl]

I keep hearing people comparing it to the other pro sports that go.

The NBA season isn't running during the Olympics. The MLB is...and they don't go.

Its arguably been harder to convince NBA players to go compete in the Olympics because it is their time off. May not be opposition to it currently but there has been among some fatcat players who were really quite arrogant about going. First couple times the NBA players got a lot of flak for bringing country club to the Olympics and we're not going unless theres luxury accommodation for us, first class all the way, gilded toilets..

NHL players are much more accommodating towards the Olympics and it seems to mean more to them. Connor himself was PISSED at not getting his chance.

All that the NHL has to do to facilitate an Olympics is have a 3week break. They already had a stupid week break for the ALLSTAR game that nobody cares about, and another week for the player mandated one week break.

It would seem an obvious bargaining chip to have had a player vote on how many wanted to forego that one week break into an Olympic trip instead.

This has been doable several times before and of course it was this time. Bettman lost his steering of the ship.

 

[Da McBomb]

Wow we lost to Germany? I thought even without NHLer's going that Canada would still have one of the strongest teams. Maybe Canada just isn't as dominant in hockey anymore as I thought.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Its arguably been harder to convince NBA players to go compete in the Olympics because it is their time off. May not be opposition to it currently but there has been among some fatcat players who were really quite arrogant about going. First couple times the NBA players got a lot of flak for bringing country club to the Olympics and we're not going unless theres luxury accommodation for us, first class all the way, gilded toilets..

NHL players are much more accommodating towards the Olympics and it seems to mean more to them. Connor himself was PISSED at not getting his chance.

All that the NHL has to do to facilitate an Olympics is have a 3week break. They already had a stupid week break for the ALLSTAR game that nobody cares about, and another week for the player mandated one week break.

It would seem an obvious bargaining chip to have had a player vote on how many wanted to forego that one week break into an Olympic trip instead.

This has been doable several times before and of course it was this time. Bettman lost his steering of the ship.

You know why it wasn't doable this time right?

The IOC decided to do nothing for the NHL. No insurance, no housing or anything. Before the IOC covered some of it. This year they wanted to cover nothing and give the NHL zero benefits, actually it would of cost the NHL millions to send the players over.

The Olympic participation was actually written into previous CBAs but it wasn't in this past one.

If the NHL players really cared they could have done something. They could of offerered to pay for their own insurance for going over or pay their own way or something.

Everyone was thinking about money and risk and no one was going to pay

 

[Drivesaitl]

^A multimillion buck cost as a reason not to go is incredibly short sighted on the part of the NHL.

One of the few things the NHL has going for it as compared to other big leagues is that they are a semi-world sport. NHL and NBA have this benefit over the other big leagues. They can got to an Olympics and be a world wide brand. Its a major trump card that should be used everytime. Its the biggest thing the NHL can do every 4yrs. Anybody not in NA feeling its bigger than the SC.

You find a way to make it happen or you lose major exposure. World Wide exposure, again with this ironically being the leagues mandate to increase that WW exposure, but not going to the Olympics. ..

Anyway, that's enough for me discussing this in this thread. Theres other events going on.

 

[MoontoScott]

You know why it wasn't doable this time right?

The IOC decided to do nothing for the NHL. No insurance, no housing or anything. Before the IOC covered some of it. This year they wanted to cover nothing and give the NHL zero benefits, actually it would of cost the NHL millions to send the players over.

The Olympic participation was actually written into previous CBAs but it wasn't in this past one.

If the NHL players really cared they could have done something. They could of offerered to pay for their own insurance for going over or pay their own way or something.

Everyone was thinking about money and risk and no one was going to pay

I'm pretty sure that lots of NHL players were willing to go on their own dime and would have stayed in a tent on the edge of town if they were allowed to go. Kudos to Alex O. for being one of the few players in the NHL who at least voiced an opinion that dared to challenge Mr. Bonaparte.

There are all kinds of reasons why it was "not doable" but an overriding reason that it should have been "doable." It's called customer loyalty and its the basis for all good business operations in the long term.

 

[soothsayer]

You know why it wasn't doable this time right?

The IOC decided to do nothing for the NHL. No insurance, no housing or anything. Before the IOC covered some of it. This year they wanted to cover nothing and give the NHL zero benefits, actually it would of cost the NHL millions to send the players over.

The Olympic participation was actually written into previous CBAs but it wasn't in this past one.

If the NHL players really cared they could have done something. They could of offerered to pay for their own insurance for going over or pay their own way or something.

Everyone was thinking about money and risk and no one was going to pay

It would be surprising if the NHL ever expected to make money immediately by their attendance at the olympics. I don't think that's how it has ever worked. The idea would be that the financial benefit accumulates over the long-run. Example: the NHL spends 20 million now and generates in return over 100 million over the next 10 years as a result of a grown international audience.

They're obviously trying to grow the game internationally. Fine if they don't see the olympics as the best option for doing that, but what else are they doing? Their video games are shit; they set up some hilariously contrived world tournament, which has probably damaged the brand more than helped; they are actively surpressing offence; they take lockouts for granted; and so on. (Granted they do play one or two exibition games in countries that are already more or less interested in hockey.)

Anyways, probably there is some justification for the NHL not participating in the olympics. But, to me, their lack of participation just compounds on a host of other short-sighted nonesense.

 

[Little Fury]

It would be surprising if the NHL ever expected to make money immediately by their attendance at the olympics. I don't think that's how it has ever worked. The idea would be that the financial benefit accumulates over the long-run. Example: the NHL spends 20 million now and generates in return over 100 million over the next 10 years as a result of a grown international audience.

They're obviously trying to grow the game internationally. Fine if they don't see the olympics as the best option for doing that, but what else are they doing? Their video games are ****; they set up some hilariously contrived world tournament, which has probably damaged the brand more than helped; they are actively surpressing offence; they take lockouts for granted; and so on. (Granted they do play one or two exibition games in countries that are already more or less interested in hockey.)

Anyways, probably there is some justification for the NHL not participating in the olympics. But, to me, their lack of participation just compounds on a host of other short-sighted nonesense.

TBH, if hockey is going to grow as a global game, having countries that aren't traditional powerhouses (eg Germany) do well is probably better than having Canada stomp the crap out of everyone again and again.

 

[MoontoScott]

TBH, if hockey is going to grow as a global game, having countries that aren't traditional powerhouses (eg Germany) do well is probably better than having Canada stomp the crap out of everyone again and again.

We haven't stomped the crap out of everyone. We were fortunate during the last 2 Olympics..in the last Olympics.

 

[Little Fury]

We haven't stomped the crap out of everyone. We were fortunate during the last 2 Olympics..in the last Olympics.

The 2014 team was arguably the best hockey team ever assembled. Undefeated, outscored the opposition 17-3 in the whole tournament. Dominant.

Ask yourself this: how many other nations can say they can put together two full rosters that could contend for medals?

 

[frag2]

I thought no NHL this Olympics was simply because the NHL felt no real incentive to shut down about a month for a tournament that only benefitted the IOC. From what’s out there, everything comes out of the leagues pocket and iirc, this was the same for previous tournaments as well. The John Tavares injury really pissed off the NHL big time since IOC didn’t want to help, insure etc etc.

When you factor in where the Olympics are held, being South Korea, NHL likely figures not worth the risk/expense.

But you know damn well come Beijing 2022, IOC insured or not, CBA approved or not, hypocritically the league will go. I mean, there have been PR moves done to plant seeds into the Chinese market (ie. McDavid visit, game this coming season, team “partnerships” with rich Chinese “business” men). Even if they can tap into 1% of the population, that’s about 1/3 of Canada’s entire population.

 

[CycloneSweep]

It would be surprising if the NHL ever expected to make money immediately by their attendance at the olympics. I don't think that's how it has ever worked. The idea would be that the financial benefit accumulates over the long-run. Example: the NHL spends 20 million now and generates in return over 100 million over the next 10 years as a result of a grown international audience.

They're obviously trying to grow the game internationally. Fine if they don't see the olympics as the best option for doing that, but what else are they doing? Their video games are ****; they set up some hilariously contrived world tournament, which has probably damaged the brand more than helped; they are actively surpressing offence; they take lockouts for granted; and so on. (Granted they do play one or two exibition games in countries that are already more or less interested in hockey.)

Anyways, probably there is some justification for the NHL not participating in the olympics. But, to me, their lack of participation just compounds on a host of other short-sighted nonesense.

The NHL didn't have an issue with not making money off it. They had an issue with losing money for it

 

[soothsayer]

TBH, if hockey is going to grow as a global game, having countries that aren't traditional powerhouses (eg Germany) do well is probably better than having Canada stomp the crap out of everyone again and again.

That's a good point, but I think interest in a sport can bud without national skin in the game. Scenario, make a choice: watch the highest level of a particular sport in which your country isn't very well represented, or watch your country do well in a field of amateurs (in a loose sense of that word). I don't know what the answer would be in general, though it probably would depend on the sport to some extent.

 

[frag2]

The NHL didn't have an issue with not making money off it. They had an issue with losing money for it

The exposure they gain from going to South Korea is so small that it isn’t worth it.

Hell, if I was a rich business man, I’d know which market i would work towards tapping when it’s China versus Korea

Sucks for the players but it’s a business

 

[Little Fury]

That's a good point, but I think interest in a sport can bud without national skin in the game. Scenario, make a choice: watch the highest level of a particular sport in which your country isn't very well represented, or watch your country do well in a field of amateurs (in a loose sense of that word). I don't know what the answer would be in general, though it probably would depend on the sport to some extent.

It's about representation. A kid from a non-hockey nation might be able to appreciate Crosby or McDavid on an aesthetic level and enjoy hockey in that respect, but seeing people who share your background do well, maybe you start to think "hey maybe I can do that too." Like how Gretzky going to LA helped juice minor hockey in California.

 

[Digger12]

LOL. At least Leon is happy.

 

[CycloneSweep]

That's a good point, but I think interest in a sport can bud without national skin in the game. Scenario, make a choice: watch the highest level of a particular sport in which your country isn't very well represented, or watch your country do well in a field of amateurs (in a loose sense of that word). I don't know what the answer would be in general, though it probably would depend on the sport to some extent.

If your country is relevant in a sport or you have a chance to go somewhere with it, it grows the sport outside of viewership.

 

[MoontoScott]

The 2014 team was arguably the best hockey team ever assembled. Undefeated, outscored the opposition 17-3 in the whole tournament. Dominant.

Ask yourself this: how many other nations can say they can put together two full rosters that could contend for medals?

Yes, an impressive team but in the 2014 Quarter-finals we beat Latvia 2-1 and then beat U.S. 1-0 so we didn't stomp them.

 

[soothsayer]

If your country is relevant in a sport or you have a chance to go somewhere with it, it grows the sport outside of viewership.

Basketball gives us a rough idea that sports can grow internationally by virtue of superstar talent being demonstrated on a world stage. You could argue that, by itself, the Dream Team from 1992 was a significant force in growing the game of basketball internationally. (Some basketball historians have convincingly made this argument.)

Anyways, I won't add anything else to this discussion, other than that it's not at all empirically justified that NHL participation wouldn't have grown the game in the long-run. Who knows if it would have. I've stated before that the big issue as I see it is that it seems, at least optically, like another play from a short-sighted playbook that the NHL refuses to unclench from its rheumatic fingers.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Basketball gives us a rough idea that sports can grow internationally by virtue of superstar talent being demonstrated on a world stage. You could argue that, by itself, the Dream Team from 1992 was a significant force in growing the game of basketball internationally. (Some basketball historians have convincingly made this argument.)

Anyways, I won't add anything else to this discussion, other than that it's not at all empirically justified that NHL participation wouldn't have grown the game in the long-run. Who knows if it would have. I've stated before that the big issue as I see it is that it seems, at least optically, like another play from a short-sighted playbook that the NHL refuses to unclench from its rheumatic fingers.

It's hard to compare basketball to hockey.

Basketball, if a kid or someone wants to play is super easy and the basic skills are easy to learn. Hockey before you can even think about touching a puck you need to learn to skate, and skates aren't cheap.

You watch a great team dominate in basketball and go "I wanna go play" it's a pretty simple thing to go do. Grab a ball, grab some friends and go play. Hockey...not so much.

 

[BlackDogg]

LOL. At least Leon is happy.

He should send a TY card to Garry Bossman.

 

[rboomercat90]

How much money to do you think he won off teammates?

Lol, if they all weren’t pissed at him for leaving the rest of them a smaller piece of the pie, I’m sure they are now.

 

[Soundwave]

Super happy for Germany.

Must be so bittersweet for Draisaitl. He busted his ass and worked so hard to get his team qualified for this tournament and it's paying off. Sadly he can't be there with them.

Yes, on the the other hand, pretty much zero chance they would ever be in that position if the NHL allowed players to go there. It would be a Canada-USA Final.

 

[MikeGrier99]

Could set us up for one of the worst finals in Olympics history. No offense to Germany, hope they pull it off against Russia. Also if Russia does win the gold, meh who cares. It won't be remembered very much anywhere in the world.

Yes, on the the other hand, pretty much zero chance they would ever be in that position if the NHL allowed players to go there. It would be a Canada-USA Final.

I'd take Sweden over the USA in the finals. The defense would be the best in the tournament, maybe the best ever assembled in the tournament.

 

[rboomercat90]

When the league announced the NHLer weren't going, I was mad as hell. Now? I think this is great. this is way more interesting than watching Canada's NHLers steamroll the competition. I hope they never go back.

I’m with you. The games were more interesting and more competitive. After watching Canada pretty much dominate three of the last four and the Red Army team dominate in the 70’s and 80’s, I enjoyed seeing a tournament where so many teams had a shot. I’ll be honest, let the NHL hold their goofy best on best tournament every 2,3 or 4 years, I couldn’t care less if the NHL players went back to the Olympics or not.

 

[Little Fury]

Could set us up for one of the worst finals in Olympics history. No offense to Germany, hope they pull it off against Russia. Also if Russia does win the gold, meh who cares. It won't be remembered very much anywhere in the world.

Would have a long way to go to top the snoozefest that was 2014. It was like watching a python strangle a goat for three hours.