Confirmed with Link: Puustinen 2 way 775k

[3ladesof5teel]

He very well could be, but at least find out, no? We played guys who were atrocious at times, but it’s okay because they are vets and North American. Maybe try to the guy more than 1 game in two years? I would have rather played big Z last year than most of our bottom six - at least he was cheap.

Big Z couldn't make 2 teams in the NHL yet you want him for the bottom 6?

I mean you could do worse I guess but not making 2 teams even with our bottom 6 being pretty bad should tell you all you need to know about Zorhona

Look at the convo's coming into last season about him, people were so high on him and wanted to burn down buildings when he was waived.

Has some freakish size to skating abilities but cant cut it on any team in the league.

Its typical overreaction for our weak AHL affiliate as expected, we give up all our 1st rounders to win now.

 

[Pens x]

No i just realize that our farm system is one of if not the worst in hockey yet many here think we have the second coming of Crosby hanging out down there and Sullivan is holding them back from some amazing breakout.

Play big Z he's going to be great
Play Angelo he has toughness

They played alright.............they played their way out of the league

Nylander got his shot before him, that should tell you something and its not Sullivan

What about those players that left the Pens to develop successfully elsewhere?

 

[3ladesof5teel]

What about those players that left the Pens to develop successfully elsewhere?

Like?

 

[Pens x]

Big Z couldn't make 2 teams in the NHL yet you want him for the bottom 6?

I mean you could do worse I guess but not making 2 teams even with our bottom 6 being pretty bad should tell you all you need to know about Zorhona

Look at the convo's coming into last season about him, people were so high on him and wanted to burn down buildings when he was waived.

Has some freakish size to skating abilities but cant cut it on any team in the league.

Its typical overreaction for our weak AHL affiliate as expected, we give up all our 1st rounders to win now.

I thought it was poor asset management to waive him. I’m sure you were one of the posters that said it was fine, he wouldn’t be picked up when waived.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I thought it was poor asset management to waive him. I’m sure you were one of the posters that said it was fine, he wouldn’t be picked up when waived.

ok and he was picked up and another team found out that he wasnt anything special and let go again.

What asset did we miss out on with Zohorna if he couldn't even make a lineup?

 

[Pens x]

Like?

Sprong, Sundqvist are productive NHL players.

Kap’a production increased in St. Louis

ok and he was picked up and another team found out that he wasnt anything special and let go again.

What asset did we miss out on with Zohorna if he couldn't even make a lineup?

Nothing, but you commented people were made when he was waived. The kool aid gang said no one would pick him up; he was picked up.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Sprong, Sundqvist are productive NHL players.

Kap’a production increased in St. Louis


Nothing, but you commented people were made when he was waived. The kool aid gang said no one would pick him up; he was picked up.

Sprong was on 4 teams in 3 years.......1/3 of his points last year were on the powerplay he would never get that here. Funny that our powerplay is trash though

I have always advocated for different usage of Kapanen, Kapanen's production has nothing to do with "development"

Sundqvist was one of JR's worst trades in the name of "toughness"

And your Zohorna point is irrelevant.......he sucks, nobody wants him we didnt miss out on an "asset" from him. Maybe a 7th rounder that more can complain about on why we drafted a 7th rounder that isnt getting any NHL time?

Kind of all over the place aren't we?

 

[Pens x]

Sprong was on 4 teams in 3 years.......1/3 of his points last year were on the powerplay he would never get that here. Funny that our powerplay is trash though

I have always advocated for different usage of Kapanen, Kapanen's production has nothing to do with "development"

Sundqvist was one of JR's worst trades in the name of "toughness"

And your Zohorna point is irrelevant.......he sucks, nobody wants him we didnt miss out on an "asset" from him. Maybe a 7th rounder that more can complain about on why we drafted a 7th rounder that isnt getting any NHL time?

Kind of all over the place aren't we?

I’m all over the place? All I said is give Puus a f***ing chance. I know our prospects are garbage, but I’m so sick of paying idiots millions, who are bad if not worse than Z, in the bottom six.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I’m all over the place? All I said is give Puus a f***ing chance. I know our prospects are garbage, but I’m so sick of paying idiots millions, who are bad if not worse than Z, in the bottom six.

For the bottom 6 role last season who are you playing Zohorna over? I am not playing him over DOC, Poehling, Archi, and those guys weren't taking up any significant cap so not sure what millions you are talking about.

Who is Zohorna playing over in the bottom 6 defensive role?

Seems like a weird argument?

We need some toughness defensive minded players back there that can eat tough mins and shut down other teams top lines. Or you find a top 6 winger that could bump Rust down to 3L and give us some skill and scoring touch

Zohorna not playing in the bottom 6 isnt hurting us............trust me

To keep this Puustinen related he doesn't have a bottom 6 skillset

 

[Honour Over Glory]

No i just realize that our farm system is one of if not the worst in hockey yet many here think we have the second coming of Crosby hanging out down there and Sullivan is holding them back from some amazing breakout.

Play big Z he's going to be great
Play Angelo he has toughness

They played alright.............they played their way out of the league

Nylander got his shot before him, that should tell you something and its not Sullivan

Who's to say they wouldn't have turned out right here? Or that the damage done was irreversible? Lafferty also looked not so great with Sullivan's usage but in Chicago And Toronto he was used exactly the way Sullivan should have and he thrived.

These two fit on the 4th line but the way it was utilized was utter garbage. It hasn't thrived since Cullen retired and it's not like we had shit options. They were just used like it.

 

[Pens x]

For the bottom 6 role last season who are you playing Zohorna over? I am not playing him over DOC, Poehling, Archi, and those guys weren't taking up any significant cap so not sure what millions you are talking about.

Who is Zohorna playing over in the bottom 6 defensive role?

Seems like a weird argument?

We need some toughness defensive minded players back there that can eat tough mins and shut down other teams top lines. Or you find a top 6 winger that could bump Rust down to 3L and give us some skill and scoring touch

Zohorna not playing in the bottom 6 isnt hurting us............trust me

To keep this Puustinen related he doesn't have a bottom 6 skillset

I don’t think you can make any assertions when it comes to Puus’s ability in the NHL, when he’s the laws in one game. Unless, of course, your name is Mike Sullivan then yes, you can apparently decide he has no future on this team. Why was he not tried last year when Rust was playing terrible? Why Didn’t he play in the next game two years ago?

I would have played Z over Granlund, McGinn, Heinen (most of last season)). Hell, Blueger was trash last year too.

But again, Puus is he issue now. Other players have thrived elsewhere when used properly.

Sully’s ideal forward is basically a 13th forward who is undersized, has no skill, but tries real hard. Harry Potter has to put a.stop to this.

 

[Pens x]

Also, did you forget about Gaudreau here two years ago? Jankowski went 32 games scoring only 1 goal, but it took injuries to Blueger and Malkin for Gaudreau to play. I’m sure you were defending Sully back then too because our prospects suck, @3ladesof5teel

 

[HandshakeLine]

Dr. Digits workin super hard.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Who's to say they wouldn't have turned out right here? Or that the damage done was irreversible? Lafferty also looked not so great with Sullivan's usage but in Chicago And Toronto he was used exactly the way Sullivan should have and he thrived.

These two fit on the 4th line but the way it was utilized was utter garbage. It hasn't thrived since Cullen retired and it's not like we had shit options. They were just used like it.

I actually didn't mind Lafferty and if I recall correctly anyone that said anything positive about him was immediately shut down by many on the board.

That's one thing I find funny most of these players that people were talking about o were criticized 90% of the time until they leave here. Then you have people coming out of the woodwork saying why didn't keep so and so.

Comical.....

 

[AuroraBorealis]

For the bottom 6 role last season who are you playing Zohorna over? I am not playing him over DOC, Poehling, Archi, and those guys weren't taking up any significant cap so not sure what millions you are talking about.

Who is Zohorna playing over in the bottom 6 defensive role?

Seems like a weird argument?

We need some toughness defensive minded players back there that can eat tough mins and shut down other teams top lines. Or you find a top 6 winger that could bump Rust down to 3L and give us some skill and scoring touch

Zohorna not playing in the bottom 6 isnt hurting us............trust me

To keep this Puustinen related he doesn't have a bottom 6 skillset

Zohorna outperformed DOC offensively and defensively as a Penguin.

Don't care at all what he does elsewhere if he brings it here.

I tried to tell people here last summer that not re-signing him was a mistake. He would have outperformed Carter, DOC, Poehling, Blueger and McGinn.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Zohorna outperformed DOC offensively and defensively as a Penguin.

Don't care at all what he does elsewhere if he brings it here.

I tried to tell people here last summer that not re-signing him was a mistake. He would have outperformed Carter, DOC, Poehling, Blueger and McGinn.

You were pretty certain about your guy Heinen prediction as well and that didn't turn out well either, but you'll sit here and say we messed up by not resigning Zohorna. He never "brought it here"

I'd take DOC and especially Poehling every day over Zohorna

Not resigning Zohorna "is a mistake" is pretty silly to say if you ask me but if your going to die on that hill go for it.

I will tell you this and ill scream it on my hill. Poehling is going to be a really solid contributor.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

BTW poster @Michael Farkas has a great write up on Puustinen in the main signing thread that I 100% agree with.

It's spot on

Many of these WBS guys just aren't very good and don't deserve a crack in the bigs.

Casualties of winning now and not having high draft picks.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You were pretty certain about your guy Heinen prediction as well and that didn't turn out well either, but you'll sit here and say we messed up by not resigning Zohorna. He never "brought it here"

I'd take DOC and especially Poehling every day over Zohorna

Not resigning Zohorna "is a mistake" is pretty silly to say if you ask me but if your going to die on that hill go for it.

I will tell you this and ill scream it on my hill. Poehling is going to be a really solid contributor.

21 goals for, 3 against with him on the ice as a Penguin. I don't think it's silly at all. He did a great job here. Much better than what we got out of bottom 6ers last year.
Good analytics in Toronto in his 2 games. Scored a goal. They cut him afterward.
Averaged 8 minutes a game under Sutter and got 8 games. Not sure how that's more reflective on what he'd do here than his actual time here.

Heinen's production regression is largely usage based. Sullivan made large cuts to his games, his minutes, his linemate quality and his O-zone starts. Naturally the points take a hit when you do that. His rate was still pretty good though.
The top 6 being healthy all year blocked guys from getting moved up.
When Heinen was with Crosby in October that line was very successful.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

21 goals for, 3 against with him on the ice as a Penguin. I don't think it's silly at all. He did a great job here. Much better than what we got out of bottom 6ers last year.
Good analytics in Toronto in his 2 games. Scored a goal. They cut him afterward.
Averaged 8 minutes a game under Sutter and got 8 games. Not sure how that's more reflective on what he'd do here than his actual time here.

Heinen's production regression is largely usage based. Sullivan made large cuts to his games, his minutes, his linemate quality and his O-zone starts. Naturally the points take a hit when you do that. His rate was still pretty good though.
The top 6 being healthy all year blocked guys from getting moved up.
When Heinen was with Crosby in October that line was very successful.

Listen I'm not going to dog Heinen for taking a pay cut after he had a career year and could have taken advantage and got a little more pay but the truth is he is not a top 6 player. He took advantage of opportunities and good on him.

If Heinen is in your top 6 your top 6 is going to be on one of the weaker tiers in the NHL. His minutes were reduced and rightfully so

I'm done talking Zohorna, he can't make the NHL on any team and should be water under the bridge. We didn't "lose any assets" with him.

The point of all this is year after year many complain about these fringe NHLers not getting playtime and the truth is the majority of them aren't very good due to our extremely thin and week AHL affiliate. We gouged the draft to win now with Crosby/Geno which I am ok with.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Listen I'm not going to dog Heinen for taking a pay cut after he had a career year and could have taken advantage of it to play here but the truth is he is not a top 6 player. He took advantage of opportunities and good on him.

If Heinen is in your top 6 your top 6 is going to be on one of the weaker tiers in the NHL. His minutes were reduced and rightfully so

I'm done talking Zohorna, he can't make the NHL on any team and should be water under the bridge. We didn't "lose any assets" with him.

The point of all this is year after year many complain about these fringe NHLers not getting playtime and the truth is the majority of them aren't very good due to our extremely thin and week AHL affiliate. We gouged the draft to win now with Crosby/Geno which I am ok with.

All I'm saying with Heinen is give him like 55-60% O-zone starts and minutes/games like year 1 and he'll outperform his cap hit. Crush him again with shit usage and he won't.
I'm not advocating for him being a top 6 fixture, but he certainly should be filling in for whoever's struggling up there at times, like Rust did. Rust's 5v5 minutes were not warranted at all.
Even Rakell's 5v5 output was not good for a long time relative to his minutes, which he got a ton of. It was around 1.50 P/P60, which is below what you want from the top six. He turned it up late in the year there and salvaged it.

Player deployment was just very unfair last year in general. I'm hoping that changes with Dubas' influence.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

"The real answer is Puustinen is a 5'9" winger with average skating. Not necessarily from a pure speed perspective, from his stride fluidity and just overall athleticism, it's the small area stuff that he's not good at and it greatly reduces his ability. It's really noticeable in his skill chaining, it has to hit on the rhythm of his dominant foot in order for it to have any chance of success...otherwise, he's losing the puck or he's getting knocked off of it...

In WBS, where there are exactly 0 skill players that are worth a damn...he has to really pick his spots, while still being a play driver...that's too much for him to manage consistently. So, sometimes he slinks back into being a - I don't know - like a Teemu Pulkkinen type...which is fine, because he can shoot (not as well as Pulkkinen, but it's a good shot...) but he's way better if he can just focus on his "A" game because he really doesn't have a "B" game, that's why he was so effective with a playmaker like Petri Kontiola because Kontiola has pace control and Puustinen doesn't. So the game gets too fast for Puustinen and then he fails.

I found a note from July 2021 that I had made about him, it still holds for me...
"
It's weird, he's just not that impactful compared to his numbers. I like that he doesn't score a lot of "junior" goals. The goals that he scores have some pop to them, he scores from in-close or he scores PP one-timers or catch and release goals. But none of this really looks NHL quality. It's good, but it's not quite good enough for me.

We signed him, which you'd expect when you draft a 20 year old. You usually have a sense that you're gonna be able to bring him over. I think he'll do well in the AHL, but I have doubts about his NHL ability right now."

##

He was a 60/40 "sure, I'll qualify him because there's nothing else going on in WBS and he's not in anyone's way..." but when he goes back to Finland next year, I don't think I'm gonna burn a candle for him..."

Cc @Michael Farkas

 

[3ladesof5teel]

All I'm saying with Heinen is give him like 55-60% O-zone starts and minutes/games like year 1 and he'll outperform his cap hit. Crush him again with shit usage and he won't.
I'm not advocating for him being a top 6 fixture, but he certainly should be filling in for whoever's struggling up there at times, like Rust did. Rust's 5v5 minutes were not warranted at all.
Even Rakell's 5v5 output was not good for a long time relative to his minutes, which he got a ton of. It was around 1.50 P/P60, which is below what you want from the top six. He turned it up late in the year there and salvaged it.

Player deployment was just very unfair last year in general. I'm hoping that changes with Dubas' influence.

I wont argue player deployments have been unfair I was big on Kapanen specifically and recently.

I dont believe Heinen warrants top 6 play time outside of playing up in a pinch just as I dont believe many of these fringe NHLers deserve playtime. I understand the shiny new toy concept with some posters and wanting to see what you have but in reality most of them should not be brought up to have a "look" as they dont deserve it.

 

[LOGiK]

Oh boy, on pace stats. My favorite.

Soon as I see 'on pace...***' it's like I'm ready to turn into the hulk and lose my mind.
Lowly players have a good spell and then what do ya know, they are on pace for 50 goals this season!
My most despised wording of a fictitious stat. Not a stat, a misconception that it is a stat...

 

[AjaxTelamon]

1.87 5v5 P/P60. Same rate as Guentzel. Why are we bunching him with Carter and Mcginn, who were a 1.10?
He had something like a 8% worse rate from the prior year, when people were high on him.
If he got more minutes with better players then he woulda scored more and people wouldn't be bitching about him now imo.
He should have gotten some of Rust's 5v5 minutes in the top 6. Kapanen too. Carter should have been the one getting healthy scratched. Blueger next in line.

Compare Heinen's usage from one year to the next and adjust expectations accordingly. If you slash his minutes, worsen his average linemates and boost his D-zone starts by 20%, what results do you want from him?
If you give him 55-60% O-zone starts with his new team, with even decent linemates, watch him score 30+ points at a ~1 mil cap hit. He'll defend better than many Forwards too.

You're never going to get through to a number of posters here who are always shocked when we either bring in someone from outside or miscast a young player as a bottom 6 checker, and then their scoring dries up.

It happened last year with Granlund. It happened way back in the day with Brassard. No better illustration can be had than Kapanen, who couldn't score to save his life in our bottom six, but somehow manages to double or triple his goal output on the juggernaut Blues. His usage changed dramatically there. He did not.

No bottom six players are ever going to succeed in scoring a lot here under the Sullivan regime of playing his entire top 6 like they are 38 year old Jason Spezza, and his entire bottom six like they are Adam Lowry or 2016 Matt Cullen.

Heinen is a serviceable, NHL 2 way player. He's not great, but at 1M he's more than fine and will finish some opportunities. He's also a better defensive player than Rust, Zucker or Jake, which is deeply unfortunate.

We need legit, two way players added to the top of this lineup, and legit shut-down guys added to the bottom of it, the forward mix is a mess.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I wont argue player deployments have been unfair I was big on Kapanen specifically and recently.

I dont believe Heinen warrants top 6 play time outside of playing up in a pinch just as I dont believe many of these fringe NHLers deserve playtime. I understand the shiny new toy concept with some posters and wanting to see what you have but in reality most of them should not be brought up to have a "look" as they dont deserve it.

I'd say they deserve a look when the bar in the bottom 6 is as low as ours. That's how accountability should work.
It would have taken precious little to improve on what some b6ers provided last year.
Mere competence from Puustinen would have been an upgrade. And Nylander certainly should have gotten far more games. He was clearly better at chance generation and his defense was excellent.
There's no way he's worse than Carter, or what Blue gave us last year.